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  1. #1
    Community Member ForumFrenzy's Avatar
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    Default Am I the only one not excited about the increased level cap? (Warning - rant ahead)

    The title pretty much asks my question. But here is my reasoning.

    I spent a lot of time leveling my 20+ toons to 20 so that I could always fill some spot in a raid. There were not all super twinked toons who could tank in LOB but they managed to do do pretty well in pretty much any raid around at the time. Then level cap increaseed to 25. 3M xp more for -seriously - 19 toons. (14 on 1 account, 5 on the other). Obviously some of the toons took a back seat at that time. Raids dropped of. Virtually no one runs Reaver, Hound, TOD, VOD anymore and Abbot and MA were already rarely played raids. I think in the last 6 months I have seen several shrouds, a couple LOBs, 1 TOD, no Abbots, maybe 1-2 reavers, 1 Hound, and no VODs. What used to be endgame material is now a wasteland. Moving the cap to 28 is going to likely kick out the LOB's (I think shroud is going to be around for a while just because the loot is great for leveling).

    Raids and raid loot needs to be addressed. Each raid should have an endgame alternative (including Tempest Spine) and loot appropriate. Perhaps several, e.g. a lvl 25, 28 etc.. version. Shroud needs an endgame alternative with the ability to upgrade GS items.

    And for the love of god, I know the plan is to go to 30, but please do not increase above this. Casters get no extra spell slots, destinies max out somewhere in lvl 22, and we are looking at 10ish million xp just to completely level a single toon when you have quests like protecting Coyle giving out 1500 for 15 minutes of time.

    All of this really needs to be addressed, but priorities are needed as well. In order IMO these should be:
    1) Fix bugs
    2) revamp xp leveling requirements (apparently already on the list)
    3) revamp quest xp rewards, and restore challenge xp
    4) fix casters (not to mention fix wail) (my 60 sp cost 8th level polar ray only does ~500-600 damage normally with the drop in spell power, the drop in crit chance, and the general line of nerfing casters while a barbarian does this much damage on nearly every swing)
    5) Make each raid endgame capable
    6) revamp epic level progression to add casting levels and/or spell slots
    7) add new content

    Just my opinion. Feel free to flame on.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    That's all reasonable and constructive. I'm almost disappointed!
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  3. #3
    Community Member Flavilandile's Avatar
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    You are not alone.
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  4. #4
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    /Signed to all of it

    Oh and +1 OP.

  5. #5
    Community Member enochiancub's Avatar
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    I got the wrong idea from the thread title and assumed it was going to be about how much the game is going away from DnD.

    I don't even know what a raid is, so I can't comment on that. Regardless, I'm not excited about the increased level cap either. So in that we're together.

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  6. #6
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    I'm not excited because there's not a large enough player base to make grouping work already, after the excitment of the expansion wears off pretty fast due to no raids, the player base will shrink back to current level and we will all be spread out 3 more levels.

    That said: the journey is the reason to play RPG's and MMO's... I have never understood either the mindset of "level my character to cap so I can start playing the game" nor have I ever seen the awesome "end game" that would give you a pay off for being in a hurry to "get to the end as fast as possible". This all dates bhack to the eirliest MUD'S and later MMO's like UO, and multplayer RPG's like the first Diablo... where "capping" was something you did right before you hung out with your 50 level character in the chat room with nothing left to do or accomplish.

    This is not a subjective thing either, it's like if you fast forwarded to the end of every movie or skipped TV series and only watched the last episode (imagine only seeing the last Seinfeld or the last Game of Thrones or the last Sopranos).

    The game does not begin at cap, the game does not "get good" when you've capped, there's literally nothing to do RIGHT NOW (two boring raids)... and there will be even less at 28 (zero boring raids).

    IMO the desire to level to cap and get to the good part when there's not an actual good part there waiting for you is one of the most perplexing and inexplicable forms of behavior in gaming.

  7. #7
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    I'm not excited because there's not a large enough player base to make grouping work already, after the excitment of the expansion wears off pretty fast due to no raids, the player base will shrink back to current level and we will all be spread out 3 more levels.

    That said: the journey is the reason to play RPG's and MMO's... I have never understood either the mindset of "level my character to cap so I can start playing the game" nor have I ever seen the awesome "end game" that would give you a pay off for being in a hurry to "get to the end as fast as possible". This all dates bhack to the eirliest MUD'S and later MMO's like UO, and multplayer RPG's like the first Diablo... where "capping" was something you did right before you hung out with your 50 level character in the chat room with nothing left to do or accomplish.

    This is not a subjective thing either, it's like if you fast forwarded to the end of every movie or skipped TV series and only watched the last episode (imagine only seeing the last Seinfeld or the last Game of Thrones or the last Sopranos).

    The game does not begin at cap, the game does not "get good" when you've capped, there's literally nothing to do RIGHT NOW (two boring raids)... and there will be even less at 28 (zero boring raids).

    IMO the desire to level to cap and get to the good part when there's not an actual good part there waiting for you is one of the most perplexing and inexplicable forms of behavior in gaming.
    The game starting at cap is for mmo's that have an endgame read raiding scene. For ddo the game ends at cap currently. I honestly see no real reason to level farther than 20 lately. This expansion just makes it worse.

  8. #8
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    This cap raise is definitely confusing me as well. No raid. Current raids are either obsolete or will be obsoleted soon, partly due to a cap increase. Very few reasons to run old endgame with even fewer reasons to run the new endgame. I just don't get the logic here. I don't even think anyone was asking for a level cap increase. It wasn't even on the top 50 most wanted things for most players, yet here we are with a cap increase that will help remove endgame options.

    I think we could have been looking at a situation this time next year where we could have gone from 25 to 30 with a new expansion. It probably should have been put off until then. We could really use something to do once we cap out, not an extension to that cap.
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  9. #9
    Community Member die's Avatar
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    I have been playing this game for damn near every lv cap increase and its the same old story.. Hell im for bringing back Death penalty's also .

    So any way what did you expect? " shakes head and walks off"
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  10. #10
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    /Tinfoil hat on

    In the letter that included that initial proposal for Epic TRing, they said outright that they were "excited about the end game potential of True Reincarnation."

    Expanding the level cap to require larger amounts of xp to be obtained from a smaller pool of quests with no cap level raid culture (1 on the way early next year) and little to no exciting/interesting loot to be chased after in the new expansion packs is -IMO- the stick that is to make the carrot of "TRing as endgame" appealing.
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 08-18-2013 at 03:43 PM.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    The game starting at cap is for mmo's that have an endgame read raiding scene. For ddo the game ends at cap currently. I honestly see no real reason to level farther than 20 lately. This expansion just makes it worse.
    Games with a raiding endgame also have a vibrant PvP scene, giving them a reason to run endgame. Personally I see no difference between an endgame raid in DDO and the Chronoscope. Both are easy to complete and reward needless loot.

  12. #12
    Community Member marcuswilliams2666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    I'm not excited because there's not a large enough player base to make grouping work already, after the excitment of the expansion wears off pretty fast due to no raids, the player base will shrink back to current level and we will all be spread out 3 more levels.

    That said: the journey is the reason to play RPG's and MMO's... I have never understood either the mindset of "level my character to cap so I can start playing the game" nor have I ever seen the awesome "end game" that would give you a pay off for being in a hurry to "get to the end as fast as possible". This all dates bhack to the eirliest MUD'S and later MMO's like UO, and multplayer RPG's like the first Diablo... where "capping" was something you did right before you hung out with your 50 level character in the chat room with nothing left to do or accomplish.

    This is not a subjective thing either, it's like if you fast forwarded to the end of every movie or skipped TV series and only watched the last episode (imagine only seeing the last Seinfeld or the last Game of Thrones or the last Sopranos).

    The game does not begin at cap, the game does not "get good" when you've capped, there's literally nothing to do RIGHT NOW (two boring raids)... and there will be even less at 28 (zero boring raids).

    IMO the desire to level to cap and get to the good part when there's not an actual good part there waiting for you is one of the most perplexing and inexplicable forms of behavior in gaming.
    I so totally agree with this...I started to play because of the chance to get some good stuff after a quest,I'm not playing just to level up as fast as possible..I think like p&p DnD

  13. #13
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    I fear that the increase in levels without a lot of variety in questing will drive people to boredom and repetition rage. Rather than the game having a dull spot from 17 to 20 we now have a singular linear path to cap resulting in a dull spot all the way to 30. That is fine for now, but what happens after a couple of months?

    By raising the level cap, the Devs shrunk the game.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Philibusta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    I'm not excited because there's not a large enough player base to make grouping work already, after the excitment of the expansion wears off pretty fast due to no raids, the player base will shrink back to current level and we will all be spread out 3 more levels.

    That said: the journey is the reason to play RPG's and MMO's... I have never understood either the mindset of "level my character to cap so I can start playing the game" nor have I ever seen the awesome "end game" that would give you a pay off for being in a hurry to "get to the end as fast as possible". This all dates bhack to the eirliest MUD'S and later MMO's like UO, and multplayer RPG's like the first Diablo... where "capping" was something you did right before you hung out with your 50 level character in the chat room with nothing left to do or accomplish.

    This is not a subjective thing either, it's like if you fast forwarded to the end of every movie or skipped TV series and only watched the last episode (imagine only seeing the last Seinfeld or the last Game of Thrones or the last Sopranos).

    The game does not begin at cap, the game does not "get good" when you've capped, there's literally nothing to do RIGHT NOW (two boring raids)... and there will be even less at 28 (zero boring raids).

    IMO the desire to level to cap and get to the good part when there's not an actual good part there waiting for you is one of the most perplexing and inexplicable forms of behavior in gaming.
    +1. Very well said. Completely agree with your view on "why hurry up and get to the end". Especially when you get to the end, the only thing to do is TR and do it all over again. Except you have to earn more XP just to get back to the end again.

    For me DDO is about the fun of actually just...well...playing the game. Never saw the appeal of grinding for XP or loot. That leads to the "I must treat the game as a job" mentality. I play the game to have FUN exploring the quests, not to run the same one over and over and over in the hopes that that one last ingredient I need to make that one piece of gear go from "uber" to "super-uber" will drop.

    And raids....phhhht. Meh....raids. Who needs em. I have enough aggravation on the rare occasions when I group with a normal (6-person) party and witness the chaotic cluster**** of that situation. I have absolutely no need for more experience with the added chaotic cluster**** of 6 more people. I ran the Chronoscope raid a few times...like 4 I think...that was more than enough Raid for me.
    All that is wrong with DDO, life, taxes, poltics, religion, music, fast food, education, the criminal justice system, the weather, society, the universe, and previously-discontinued-but-now-on-their-way-back snack cakes, is all the fault of Wizards of the Coast. I know this because Fred told me so, and Mind Flayers are smart.

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