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  1. #1
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    Default Maximum Reflex Save

    Just out of pure curiosity - what is the maximum reflex save currently possible in the game ?

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    whatever it is i would say its max dex pally with kick A** charisma and has resiliance with the option of gm of water aka only possible after the enhancment pass
    Demons run when a good man goes to war

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    Doesn't seem like a practical question, but we could work on some theoretical #s....

    Figure drow (cha and dex bonuses) 2 paladin (cha bonus), 2 monk (base saves), 16 rogue (base saves and dex enh).

    So we start with 15 base reflex and 20 each in dex and cha.
    Figure +5 tomes, +8 items, +3 insightful items, + 1 exceptional items, +2 ship, +2 yugo, +2 enhancement, +2 completionist, +2 inspire excellence, +3 level up for both stats gives us gets us to 50 in each (+20 x 2 = +40).
    Wear any 'ol armor from madness chain with +10 reflex slotted, and put alchemical +1 on it, +2 luck, add in haste and GH for +18.
    For EDs go GmoF Perfection of Soul (+6, tier 5) and 6 tiers of dex (+3) with twists for Lithe (+6), Draconic Perception (+6), and Unearthly Reactions (+6) for a total ED boost of +27


    So that adds up to 100 (and no fail on 1). Did I miss anything?


    ** Edit - change to monk 12 rogue 6 in water stance (+4 saves), and I forgot +2 drow enhancement to dex - gets us to 105! **
    Last edited by Inoukchuk; 05-22-2013 at 11:40 AM.

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    It's a longshot but after the enhancement pass you can get the Defensive Roll with - Activates if you are below 50% hp and reduce the incoming melee damage to 20% (-80%).

    - So in practice 100 reflex save (as I can see - possible to achieve) will reduce the incoming melee damage by 80%, the magic damage by ... 100% ? (I mean what the heck can dish a DC above 100)
    - Not to mention you'll have some decent AC from being a Monk with high DEX (as far as I can see) -> This means some more melee mitigation
    - You'll have nice Dodge (3% from dodge feat, 6% from 6 monk levels, 4% from the rogue levels, 5% if you use defensive strikes*, 6% from the enhancements so that's 21% without items)
    - 50 PRR (again if you use defensive strikes).
    - Being a rogue gives you the option to use DEX to hit and damage with staves or alternatively 6 monk gives DEX to hit and damage for slashing weapons you are centered with.

    Just seemed like a nice tank idea (heck let's put the AC at 25% miss chance, thats 80% from defensive roll + 25% AC miss chance + 21% dodge + 27% PRR reduction = 91+% melee mitigation) with some decent damage (from all that DEX to damage). That is - as long as you are below 50% which wont be hard to achieve.

    With all them clickies (the rogues have one which is Cleave + Trip in one) you can skip the Cleave + Great Cleave + THF (you'll lack the STR for them anyway) and just use the feats for Toughness and Saves (Toughness because of the lack of CON and the Saves are already self-explanatory)

    Another option is to go the TWF path but the Defensive Strikes (which IMO SHOULD be used 50 PRR + 5% dodge + 75% hate gen -40% offhand strike) will reduce your DPS by what .. 20%?

    *You can't use both DS and a monk stance as far as I am aware so you have to chose between 3 saves (not sure about the number) or 50 PRR and 5% dodge

    ================================================== ============

    Anyway the idea was if such a tank was possible, so all I needed to know was if 100 reflex safe is reachable.
    Last edited by Hajutze; 05-22-2013 at 01:06 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hajutze View Post
    It's a longshot but after the enhancement pass you can get the Defensive Roll with - Activates if you are below 50% hp and reduce the incoming melee damage to 20% (-80%).

    - So in practice 100 reflex save (as I can see - possible to achieve) will reduce the incoming melee damage by 80%, the magic damage by ... 100% ? (I mean what the heck can dish a DC above 100)
    - Not to mention you'll have some decent AC from being a Monk with high DEX (as far as I can see) -> This means some more melee mitigation
    - You'll have nice Dodge (3% from dodge feat, 6% from 6 monk levels, 4% from the rogue levels, 5% if you use defensive strikes*, 6% from the enhancements so that's 21% without items)
    - 50 PRR (again if you use defensive strikes).
    - Being a rogue gives you the option to use DEX to hit and damage with staves or alternatively 6 monk gives DEX to hit and damage for slashing weapons you are centered with.

    Just seemed like a nice tank idea (heck let's put the AC at 25% miss chance, thats 80% from defensive roll + 25% AC miss chance + 21% dodge + 27% PRR reduction = 91+% melee mitigation) with some decent damage (from all that DEX to damage). That is - as long as you are below 50% which wont be hard to achieve.

    With all them clickies (the rogues have one which is Cleave + Trip in one) you can skip the Cleave + Great Cleave + THF (you'll lack the STR for them anyway) and just use the feats for Toughness and Saves (Toughness because of the lack of CON and the Saves are already self-explanatory)

    Another option is to go the TWF path but the Defensive Strikes (which IMO SHOULD be used 50 PRR + 5% dodge + 75% hate gen -40% offhand strike) will reduce your DPS by what .. 20%?

    *You can't use both DS and a monk stance as far as I am aware so you have to chose between 3 saves (not sure about the number) or 50 PRR and 5% dodge

    ================================================== ============

    Anyway the idea was if such a tank was possible, so all I needed to know was if 100 reflex safe is reachable.
    Well.... the #'s I gave were theoretical, in practice they would involve heavy sacrifices (especially in EDs where we dedicated everything to reflex). Realistically you probably don't have +5 tomes, likely won't use yugo pots all the time, may not have a bard in group, aren't a completionist, won't use madness chain armor, etc. A more realistic # would be probably be 80.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    Well.... the #'s I gave were theoretical, in practice they would involve heavy sacrifices (especially in EDs where we dedicated everything to reflex). Realistically you probably don't have +5 tomes, likely won't use yugo pots all the time, may not have a bard in group, aren't a completionist, won't use madness chain armor, etc. A more realistic # would be probably be 80.
    4 monk, 6 paladin, 10 rogue
    Base - 4 + 2 + 7 = 13
    CHA = 20
    DEX = 20
    Items = 8
    Insightful items = 3
    Exceptional = 1
    ship = 2
    GH = 5
    luck = 2
    alchemical = 1
    ====================
    total = 75

    Enhancements - monk 3 + Rogue 3 = 6
    Feats - resilience 4 + 2 + 1 = 7
    Paladin Aura = 4
    Paladin Stance = 3
    ====================
    total = 95

    Even 80 reflex is good enough (using my last post calculations) 25% + 80%*80% + 27% + 21% = 84.4% melee mitigation - IMHO still quite good. (every +1 in reflex after that adds 0.35% mitigation until 100 reflex)

    The actual problem is pulling that off on a first life character xD (I can substitute the Drow for a 32pt Halfling, they get +1 saves so this will fix the -2 CHA problem)

    Thank god I am a patient man xD
    Last edited by Hajutze; 05-24-2013 at 10:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hajutze View Post
    4 monk, 6 paladin, 10 rogue
    Base - 4 + 2 + 7 = 13
    CHA = 20
    DEX = 20
    Items = 8
    Insightful items = 3
    Exceptional = 1
    ship = 2
    GH = 5
    luck = 2
    alchemical = 1
    ====================
    total = 75

    Enhancements - monk 3 + Rogue 3 = 6
    Feats - resilience 4 + 2 + 1 = 7
    Paladin Aura = 4
    Paladin Stance = 3
    ====================
    total = 95

    Even 80 reflex is good enough (using my last post calculations) 25% + 80%*80% + 27% + 21% = 84.4% melee mitigation - IMHO still quite good. (every +1 in reflex after that adds 0.35% mitigation until 100 reflex)

    The actual problem is pulling that off on a first life character xD (I can substitute the Drow for a 32pt Halfling, they get +1 saves so this will fix the -2 CHA problem)

    Thank god I am a patient man xD
    I'm a touch confused by these #s...

    Resilience 7? I get the +4 from resilience feat, where does the +2 and +1 come from?
    GH is only 4
    Enhancements - rogue 3? what from? Monk I assume is from water stance, but rogue I'm not aware of anything granting a save bonus except trap sense (which is obviously only against traps).
    Paladin Aura = 4... I assume this is from Paladin Resistance of Good III, which requires Paladin level 11?
    Paladin Stance = 3? I assume that's from DoS II, which requires paladin level 18.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    I'm a touch confused by these #s...

    Resilience 7? I get the +4 from resilience feat, where does the +2 and +1 come from?
    GH is only 4
    Enhancements - rogue 3? what from? Monk I assume is from water stance, but rogue I'm not aware of anything granting a save bonus except trap sense (which is obviously only against traps).
    Paladin Aura = 4... I assume this is from Paladin Resistance of Good III, which requires Paladin level 11?
    Paladin Stance = 3? I assume that's from DoS II, which requires paladin level 18.
    Pasted this stuff from my notepad, I forgot to mention that I'm combining calculations from the current game + the current state of the enhancements pass
    so the rogue +3 is +3 reflex from the rogue enhancements
    Feats - 7 was meant to represent the 4 from resilience + the 3 from the other 2 feats (was too lazy to search the names, there is one for +2 and one for +1 to all saves)
    The GH is mistake on my part .. again
    The paladin aura is again from the enhancements pass (it goes up to 4 saves and requires a level of 3 I think)
    The stance is pretty much what you assume but under the new system it requires only 6 levels of paladin.

  9. #9
    Community Member Feithlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hajutze View Post
    4 monk, 6 paladin, 10 rogue
    Base - 4 + 2 + 7 = 13
    CHA = 20
    DEX = 20
    Items = 8
    Insightful items = 3
    Exceptional = 1
    ship = 2
    GH = 5
    luck = 2
    alchemical = 1
    ====================
    total = 75

    Enhancements - monk 3 + Rogue 3 = 6
    Feats - resilience 4 + 2 + 1 = 7
    Paladin Aura = 4
    Paladin Stance = 3
    ====================
    total = 95

    Even 80 reflex is good enough (using my last post calculations) 25% + 80%*80% + 27% + 21% = 84.4% melee mitigation - IMHO still quite good. (every +1 in reflex after that adds 0.35% mitigation until 100 reflex)

    The actual problem is pulling that off on a first life character xD (I can substitute the Drow for a 32pt Halfling, they get +1 saves so this will fix the -2 CHA problem)

    Thank god I am a patient man xD
    Not sure how you counted the bonuses. I would expect this:

    Dex = 20 + 4 tome + 2 rogue enh. + 6 level + 8 item + 3 insight + 1 exc. + 2 race enh. + 2 ship + 4 tenser = 52 (+21)
    Cha = 20 + 4 tome + 2 paladin enh. + 8 item + 3 insight + 1 exc. + 2 ship = 40 (+15)
    Ref = 15 base (2 epic levels) + 21 dex + 15 cha + 7 feats + 3 rogue enh. + 4 aura + 3 stance + 4 gh + 2 luck + 4 sup. parrying + 2 bulwark of defense (epic feat) + 4 water stance = 84, +6 lithe twist + 6 unearthly reactions twist + 6 GMoF = 102.

    Edit: I think you need a shield to benefit from stance atm, which would exclude water stance.
    Last edited by Feithlin; 06-03-2013 at 03:41 PM.
    Thelanis: Nassim* (F12/P6/M2) - Talienor** (P18/Ra2) - Feithlin** (F12/Bd7/C1) - Stoneoak* (F12/M6/P2) - Hokusai (M17/F2/C1) - Ardence* (Bd15/F3/Ro2) - Matsushiro* (Ro11/M6/P3) | Argonessen: Luneargent (W18/Ro2) - Talienor (Ro20) - Takshir (Bd16/F2/Ro2) - Hiacynthe (C20) | Ghallanda: A bunch of pre DDO Unlimited characters (field of testing for post U19 )

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    Community Member Feithlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feithlin View Post
    Edit: I think you need a shield to benefit from stance atm, which would exclude water stance.
    Can't edit my post. By atm, I mean in the present form of enhancement pass.
    Thelanis: Nassim* (F12/P6/M2) - Talienor** (P18/Ra2) - Feithlin** (F12/Bd7/C1) - Stoneoak* (F12/M6/P2) - Hokusai (M17/F2/C1) - Ardence* (Bd15/F3/Ro2) - Matsushiro* (Ro11/M6/P3) | Argonessen: Luneargent (W18/Ro2) - Talienor (Ro20) - Takshir (Bd16/F2/Ro2) - Hiacynthe (C20) | Ghallanda: A bunch of pre DDO Unlimited characters (field of testing for post U19 )

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    Community Member Feithlin's Avatar
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    I forgot the resistance item! So that would bring the total to 117 with madness armor.
    Thelanis: Nassim* (F12/P6/M2) - Talienor** (P18/Ra2) - Feithlin** (F12/Bd7/C1) - Stoneoak* (F12/M6/P2) - Hokusai (M17/F2/C1) - Ardence* (Bd15/F3/Ro2) - Matsushiro* (Ro11/M6/P3) | Argonessen: Luneargent (W18/Ro2) - Talienor (Ro20) - Takshir (Bd16/F2/Ro2) - Hiacynthe (C20) | Ghallanda: A bunch of pre DDO Unlimited characters (field of testing for post U19 )

  12. #12
    Community Member Feithlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feithlin View Post
    I forgot the resistance item! So that would bring the total to 117 with madness armor.
    112... stupid forum...
    Thelanis: Nassim* (F12/P6/M2) - Talienor** (P18/Ra2) - Feithlin** (F12/Bd7/C1) - Stoneoak* (F12/M6/P2) - Hokusai (M17/F2/C1) - Ardence* (Bd15/F3/Ro2) - Matsushiro* (Ro11/M6/P3) | Argonessen: Luneargent (W18/Ro2) - Talienor (Ro20) - Takshir (Bd16/F2/Ro2) - Hiacynthe (C20) | Ghallanda: A bunch of pre DDO Unlimited characters (field of testing for post U19 )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feithlin View Post
    112... stupid forum...
    Madness armor does not stack with resistance (but +10 > +7). I've heard that the madness will bonus stacks (haven't tested, and probably not WAI), but dex does not.

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