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  1. #1
    The Hatchery samthedagger's Avatar
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    Default Critique my Drogonk

    The Drogonk, as I am calling my Druid/Rogue/Monk build is in his second life now and I am looking for critiques. Learned a lot about the druid class by playing pure druid the first life through and from having some experience with monk and rogue figured a splash would add some nice abilities. I am still not entirely sure how I should approach weapons. Should I be using handwraps or quarterstaves do you think? I intend to be in wolf form most of the time as I really loved last life having the wolf form attacks. Added Cleave and Great Cleave this time to something to fill in the cooldown gaps.

    I should have Bluff maxed by the third life when I'll have 36 pts. So that is a minor weakness there. I've already found having the rogue level is handy for improving Bluff and keeping that sneak attack going. For some reason I don't seem to be landing stunning fist as often as I should be though at level 5 and that is with +4 stunning wraps crafted. Granted, I could upgrade them to +8 at that level, but I just haven't gotten around to it. Was thinking of making a staff with +8 stunning and then using magic fang in conjunction with ram's might.

    I have some decent monk gear stashed for leveling. Not sure on optimal equipment load-out I should be looking for with this kind of build though. I am also considering making a GS staff for next life. Other notes on gear include that he has at least +2 tomes on everything else, but I didn't put them in the builder because they weren't relevant for any feats.

    Any thoughts and tips for the next life? I am gonna do a third druid life and am thinking about what I want to do with it. Goals are good DPS, trapping, moderately good defenses, and back-up healer.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Lucardru 2
    Level 20 Lawful Neutral Human Male
    (2 Monk \ 1 Rogue \ 17 Druid) 
    Hit Points: 290
    Spell Points: 1228 
    BAB: 13\13\18\23
    Fortitude: 15
    Reflex: 12
    Will: 21
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    15
    Dexterity            14                    14
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence         11                    14
    Wisdom               17                    26
    Charisma              8                     8
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               6                     6
    Bluff                 3                    16
    Concentration         4                    24
    Diplomacy            -1                    -1
    Disable Device        4                    25
    Haggle               -1                     0
    Heal                  3                     8
    Hide                  2                     2
    Intimidate           -1                    -1
    Jump                  6                     6
    Listen                3                     8
    Move Silently         2                     2
    Open Lock             6                     6
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair                0                     2
    Search                4                    25
    Spot                  3                     8
    Swim                  2                     2
    Tumble                6                     6
    Use Magic Device      3                     3
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Bluff (+4)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Augment Summoning
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Druid
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
    Enhancement: Improved Search I
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
    
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+3)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    
    
    Level 4 (Druid)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Enhancement: Druid Energy of the Locus I
    Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Sun I
    Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life I
    Enhancement: Druid Toughness I
    
    
    Level 5 (Druid)
    Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf
    Enhancement: Druid Shifting Rake I
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Improved Bluff I
    Enhancement: Druid Wisdom I
    
    
    Level 6 (Druid)
    Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    Enhancement: Druid Beastial Nature I
    Enhancement: Druid Blood Moon Frenzy I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    
    
    Level 7 (Druid)
    Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Enhancement: Druid Waxing Sun I
    Enhancement: Druid Waxing Life I
    Enhancement: Druid Toughness II
    
    
    Level 8 (Druid)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear
    Enhancement: Druid Vengeful Hunter I
    
    
    Level 9 (Druid)
    Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    Enhancement: Druid Essence of the Shrike I
    Enhancement: Druid Nature's Warrior I
    
    
    Level 10 (Druid)
    Skill: Bluff (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Enhancement: Druid Shifting Rake II
    Enhancement: Druid Zenith of the Sun I
    Enhancement: Druid Zenith of Life I
    
    
    Level 11 (Druid)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Druid)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting
    Enhancement: Druid Beastial Nature II
    Enhancement: Druid Blood Moon Frenzy II
    Enhancement: Druid Vengeful Hunter II
    
    
    Level 13 (Druid)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Enhancement: Druid Fatal Harrier
    Enhancement: Druid Shifting Rake III
    
    
    Level 14 (Druid)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Winter Wolf
    Enhancement: Druid Toughness III
    
    
    Level 15 (Druid)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Druid Nature's Warrior II
    Enhancement: Druid Shifting Rake IV
    
    
    Level 16 (Druid)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Fire Elemental
    Enhancement: Druid Celerity
    Enhancement: Druid Essence of the Shrike II
    
    
    Level 17 (Druid)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Enhancement: Druid Vengeful Hunter III
    
    
    Level 18 (Druid)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting
    Enhancement: Druid Wisdom II
    
    
    Level 19 (Druid)
    Skill: Bluff (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Druid)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Dire Bear
    Enhancement: Druid Strength I
    Enhancement: Druid Wisdom III

  2. #2
    Community Member tricnic's Avatar
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    A couple things:

    1) Last I heard, both Wolf and Bear use Improved Critical: Bludgeoning to increase threat range, even though Wolf does piercing/slashing. Don't ask me why, it was probably just easier to code this way.

    2) 2 levels of Monk will not garner the huge bonuses to AC that high level monks have. Yes, you will be able to get your Wis and +3 to your AC, but that will be overshadowed by a +5 leather and +5 heavy shield at higher levels. Even at level 7 veteran, the starter druid gear gave me 1 better AC than the Monk bonuses to AC. Just be happy with your Evasion and extra feats and equip that leather/shield.

    3) As much as I love the idea of increasing the power of hirelings, summons, and pets, let's face it... They are weak to begin with (Hirelings are better, but still not spectacular), and in later levels they are only really good for cannon fodder. Plus, they are complete and utter morons.

    I have to say that DDO has some of the worst AI I've seen. Mobs rushing up to you and going into a high speed spin cycle for 30 seconds, preventing any attacks from landing during that time... Pets, summons, and hirelings getting stuck on a perfectly smooth wall and just standing there while a dozen mobs pound on you as you cry out for mercy... Hirelings running right into the middle of already active traps and groups of mobs so that they can cast a level 1 spell that isn't even on their command bar...

    On the other hand, having 2 Druid past lives and Augment Summoning means they get +6 to all stats, which is nothing to sneeze at. It doesn't help the AI problems, but at least they are beefier and can hopefully survive their incompetence.

    4) Spell crit chance enhancements are nice for those random crits, but most casters will tell you, consistent damage is better than spikey damage. However, you are not a caster. If you are focusing on Wolf Form (which it looks like with your feat choices) then you should focus on Wolf Form. When you break it down, even a 30% crit chance with spells will crit only a handful of times per hour if you only cast a spell every couple minutes.



    Hope this helps.
    - Tricnic Alamode
    Orien Server:
    Obscure Rhetoric (Tempest's Fury - 3rd Life - Half-Orc Barbarian 8/Ranger 6/Fighter 6)
    Kogrash the Inert (Basic Artificer - Warforged Artificer 18 / Rogue 2)
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  3. #3
    Community Member Fleckislaupir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samthedagger View Post
    I am still not entirely sure how I should approach weapons. Should I be using handwraps or quarterstaves do you think? I intend to be in wolf form most of the time as I really loved last life having the wolf form attacks.
    If the goal is a centered wolf, you may want to consider a pair of kamas instead. Drawback is you can't cast Shillelagh on kamas and have it carry over to wolf-form; but the advantage is being able to have two sets of weapon effects instead of only one. Just remember that for your offhand, direct dmg effects like Flaming etc. don't apply in wolf form; but passive bonuses like Seeker do. Or you can use your offhand kama for caster bonuses (Devotion, Glaciation, etc.).

    BTW, I think you do NOT have to use handwraps in order to use S.Fist in animal form; as long as you're centered w/ki weapons, it should work. But definitely test that first; been a while since I played Drunken Wolf.
    Quote Originally Posted by tricnic View Post
    1) Last I heard, both Wolf and Bear use Improved Critical: Bludgeoning to increase threat range, even though Wolf does piercing/slashing. Don't ask me why, it was probably just easier to code this way.
    It's because animal-form atks are considered unarmed and therefore fall under Blunt weapons.
    The Once and Future unbongwah

  4. #4
    The Hatchery samthedagger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricnic View Post
    A couple things:

    1) Last I heard, both Wolf and Bear use Improved Critical: Bludgeoning to increase threat range, even though Wolf does piercing/slashing. Don't ask me why, it was probably just easier to code this way.
    Okay, that is good to know. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by tricnic View Post
    2) 2 levels of Monk will not garner the huge bonuses to AC that high level monks have. Yes, you will be able to get your Wis and +3 to your AC, but that will be overshadowed by a +5 leather and +5 heavy shield at higher levels. Even at level 7 veteran, the starter druid gear gave me 1 better AC than the Monk bonuses to AC. Just be happy with your Evasion and extra feats and equip that leather/shield.
    2 levels of monk and a +8 armor bonus item is roughly equivalent. The main purpose of the monk levels is saves, evasion, and feats. Also, I am building this for leveling a TR atm, not endgame.

    Quote Originally Posted by tricnic View Post
    3) As much as I love the idea of increasing the power of hirelings, summons, and pets, let's face it... They are weak to begin with (Hirelings are better, but still not spectacular), and in later levels they are only really good for cannon fodder. Plus, they are complete and utter morons.

    I have to say that DDO has some of the worst AI I've seen. Mobs rushing up to you and going into a high speed spin cycle for 30 seconds, preventing any attacks from landing during that time... Pets, summons, and hirelings getting stuck on a perfectly smooth wall and just standing there while a dozen mobs pound on you as you cry out for mercy... Hirelings running right into the middle of already active traps and groups of mobs so that they can cast a level 1 spell that isn't even on their command bar...

    On the other hand, having 2 Druid past lives and Augment Summoning means they get +6 to all stats, which is nothing to sneeze at. It doesn't help the AI problems, but at least they are beefier and can hopefully survive their incompetence.
    I am going to see where it goes as I TR. Last life, my summons and companion were very useful. I pumped my puppy up with intimidate. He'd rush up and grab aggro with intim. I'd quickly jump in and decimate everything with sneak attack and wolf form attacks. I ran nothing but elites and a few hard farms on life 1 and puppy didn't die that often, even on elite because he wasn't taking damage for very long. Also helps to give him ship buffs. The summons are indeed canon fodder. But I also generally pair up with a guildie for TRing so we usually have a hireling or two in the party. After three druid lives, if it doesn't seem that to be contributing much, I'll give it up. But it does seem to increase survivability so far. I didn't even have Augment Summoning last life.

    Quote Originally Posted by tricnic View Post
    4) Spell crit chance enhancements are nice for those random crits, but most casters will tell you, consistent damage is better than spikey damage. However, you are not a caster. If you are focusing on Wolf Form (which it looks like with your feat choices) then you should focus on Wolf Form. When you break it down, even a 30% crit chance with spells will crit only a handful of times per hour if you only cast a spell every couple minutes.
    Not really much of a caster druid so I only put points into these enhancements when I had a point or two to spare here and there. It's helpful to have a ranged spell attack from time to time and even if the crits aren't reliable they are handy. Taking the crit chance enhancements would save me 4 AP I think, which doesn't get me much. Any thoughts on what I should spend it on instead? One more eminence of life and...

  5. #5
    The Hatchery samthedagger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleckislaupir View Post
    If the goal is a centered wolf, you may want to consider a pair of kamas instead. Drawback is you can't cast Shillelagh on kamas and have it carry over to wolf-form; but the advantage is being able to have two sets of weapon effects instead of only one. Just remember that for your offhand, direct dmg effects like Flaming etc. don't apply in wolf form; but passive bonuses like Seeker do. Or you can use your offhand kama for caster bonuses (Devotion, Glaciation, etc.).

    BTW, I think you do NOT have to use handwraps in order to use S.Fist in animal form; as long as you're centered w/ki weapons, it should work. But definitely test that first; been a while since I played Drunken Wolf.

    It's because animal-form atks are considered unarmed and therefore fall under Blunt weapons.
    I'll test out a pair of kamas to see how it works. Unfortunately spell power kamas are few and far between. I can craft some, but crafting limits to those are pretty low level. If kamas work, I might make a pair of GS kamas. Thanks for your suggestions!

  6. #6
    Community Member tricnic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samthedagger View Post
    2 levels of monk and a +8 armor bonus item is roughly equivalent. The main purpose of the monk levels is saves, evasion, and feats. Also, I am building this for leveling a TR atm, not endgame.
    Looking at the Armor (http://ddowiki.com/page/Armor_by_Proficiency) and Shield (http://ddowiki.com/page/Shields) tables, I noticed that there are more types of armor that get better with levels. That made me curious about how things add up. I assumed the maximum enhancement bonus to AC that each item could give at specific levels. Dex and Protection bonuses are disregarded as either option can get an equivalent value from those types of AC bonus.

    Centered Monk:

    Level 3:
    Wis 18 (+1 Wis item) = +4 AC
    Monk 2 = +3 AC
    Bracers of Armor +2 = +2 AC
    Total: +9

    Level 11:
    Wis 26 (+4 Wis item) = +8 AC
    Monk 2 = +3 AC
    Bracers of Armor +5 = +5 AC
    Total: +16

    Level 14:
    Wis 28 (+6 Wis item) = +9 AC
    Monk 2 = +3 AC
    Bracers of Armor +7 = +7 AC
    Total: +19



    Wearing leather armor + heavy shield:

    Level 3:
    +1 Heavy Wooden Shield = +3 AC
    +1 Leather Armor = +4 AC
    Total: +7

    Level 11:
    +5 Heavy Wooden Shield = +7 AC
    +5 Leather Armor = +8 AC
    Total: +15 Heavy

    Level 14:
    +5 Battle Heavy Wooden Shield = +9 AC
    +5 Feycraft Armor = +10 AC
    Total: +19 Heavy



    Wearing leather armor + tower shield
    Level 3:
    +1 Wooden Tower Shield = +5 AC
    +1 Leather Armor = +4 AC
    Total: +9 AC

    Level 11:
    +5 Wooden Tower Shield = +9 AC
    +5 Leather Armor = +8 AC
    Total: +17

    Level 14:
    +5 Battle Tower Shield = +11 AC
    +5 Feycraft Armor = +10 AC
    Total: +21


    My original opinion didn't take into account Bracers of Armor, which I tend to forget exist.

    So, it appears that Monk bonuses maintain a slight advantage over leather/heavy shield, but are pretty well neck and neck with leather/tower shields. This was an unexpected, and very interesting, outcome. Now, this is just with leather armor. It is possible to obtain even more powerful dragonscale armor that tips the balance in the favor of armor/shield, but not by a huge amount.

    After this little foray into the world of theory crafting, I would change my recommendation. Pick up Jidz-Tet ka (http://ddowiki.com/page/Jidz-Tet%27ka) at 5 and enjoy your centered-ness. Just be sure to keep your + Wis item and Bracers/Robe of Armor at the highest value you can at each level.

    - Tricnic Alamode
    Orien Server:
    Obscure Rhetoric (Tempest's Fury - 3rd Life - Half-Orc Barbarian 8/Ranger 6/Fighter 6)
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    Kaloran Narolak (Gimp Healer - Human Cleric 18)

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