What would make me complain is if you refuse to start and LFM, and then complain that there is no LFM’s for you to join.
I have nothing against people that want to go slow; I just do not prefer this. Go as slow as you like if that is what brings you fun. It is when others are too lazy to entertain themselves and they want to blame the “elitist jerk vets” because we do not hold their hand. (I am not referring to you or anyone else that takes their entertainment into their own hands.)
Here is why LFM are down, in my humble experience:
The amount of time it took to get an LFM filled increased almost exponentially when BB streaks became all the rage. Yeah, I know people like the BB, especially TRs. But new players were using it to level fast without considering that you could basically level just as fast without it. Plus, many multi-TRs started to refuse to run stuff that wasn’t elite. LFMs not filling fairly quickly started to discourage people from putting them up in the first place.
Farmers started to become the larger group of LFM posters, because they could get more XP/min with a buddy or two. However, because there is a large contingent of farmers who will not tolerate a 10% hit to XP due to a death, and because that specific subset is an insufferable bunch of people in general, they started to lose their “buddies” in short order (because they realize the person they’re helping to farm a quest is an insufferable jerk). In walks a new player, they get the impression that most people leading these groups are like these farmers I’m describing, and BAM! A new solo-only trend comes to life.
As an FYI, I have a couple of toons I can use to help people farm quests. I don’t do that anymore for just anyone. I’ve had too many bad experiences, and won’t go there again. Honestly, I write software for a living – the kind of software that is up and running 24 x 7 doing some fairly important stuff. Frankly, by comparison, memorizing where that stupid spike trap is in that quest I round a couple of times with each toon is not my top priority in life. You take a 10% hit and your undies get in a bunch over it? Do humanity a favor: take a deep breath and count to 10 before you act on that impulse to be an uptight twit. It’s a frickin’ game.
Despite the denials of some, there is an elite clique in this game. Many – not all, but many – of them are also insufferable jerks. A new players runs into a couple of them and they either leave the game, or just give up PUGs altogether. I’ve run into a lot of these in the past.
There is a trend, as far as I can tell, of new players who do not want to join guilds. I think this probably goes hand-in-hand with players who strictly want to solo content.
Intermediate players like myself, and even a few expert ones who are familiar with PUGs realize that there are trends to a successful LFM. And yes, they’ll wait to see if one begins to fill before they join. No one wants to stick it out for 20 mins waiting for a group to fill, only to have the guy who posted the LFM bail because he got one person to join during that time.
That Stone of Experience thing soured a lot of good players (read: some of the insufferable jerks I’ve described) from taking on newer or lesser-known players when they create a group. So, some of the insufferable jerks that I’ve described were pushed that way based on a few bad experiences. This does not account for all insufferable jerks as…well…some people were just born insufferable jerks.
Finally: BYOH, IP, P2P, F2P, and all of the other acronyms / phrases used by experienced players are not impressed on new players from birth. VON flagging, Delera’s flagging can be confusing for various reasons (I still have yet to figure out how that whole Laughing Knives thing has to do with flagging for VON – it seems like an after-thought). I can’t tell you how many times I’ve screwed up the sequence to get that last quest in Delera to get the end-reward. If you are going to take in a player that you think is new, it is helpful to be somewhat tolerant. Maybe explain the lingo, or ask if there are any players new to the chain or the quest. Telling people on this forum to “mention something when you join an LFM that you are new” doesn’t really mean diddly-squat when new players don’t look at the forums.
Finally, there are some quests that are just easier to fill. I’m finding that no one has any problems filling a Lords of Dust run. They have LOTS of problems filling, say, Necro II runs. There is little to anything anyone here can do to fix this.
So how do you fix it?
1) Allow people to “bank” exclusions to their streaks so that running something on normal for a friend, or for fun doesn’t break their streak.
2) There are few to no problems with LFMs posted by elite players specifying what they need. “Open” LFMs – meaning those that’ll take anyone – should say “anyone welcome to join,” or the like.
3) Ask if someone is a new player, and if you think they can’t hack it, recommend that they leave, or explain what they need to do. It’ll take a couple of minutes.
4) A little courtesy and civility goes a long way.
5) Join 1 PUG a day (if possible) and then go about your normal routine.
Honestly – you fix those for things, you’ll see more LFMs, and more of them filling in shorter periods of time.
I created a PUG a few days back, and took just about anyone. It filled in about 10 minutes. Then again it was a Lords of Dust run, on epic hard which is pretty popular. It went fairly smooth. I’ll probably do that again soon, but maybe on another toon, and on hard just to see if things fill.
I must apologize for an excesive rush of fury, but you must admit that your own words were far from kind to new/casual players. I repeat, I don´t have anything against uber players stickin with uber players, but both of you took for granted that lfms are empty because no one wants to run with noobs that don´t want to learn or are lazy.
My point of view is that there are few LFM´s cause new/casual players are afraid of posting them (I´ve had my big share of insults from elitists AND noobs (i can tell the difference because because noobs die a lot) for leading a quest i dunno well (even if i posted a warning) and uber/vets just dont need them.
I don´t have a clue if I´m blacklisted, but I´ve never been rude to anyone ingame (and rarely in the forums, besides the occasional outburst, sorry).
I just wish there were more casual players (5-10 hours a week kind of) to play along with, sigh. I´ve been soloing more and more lately. Oh well, expect more LFMs from Nahiz in Ghallanda! All welcome!
The biggest problem is that if a new person starts an LFM that says “new person, going slow, learning run”, and someone joins and grief’s by zerging or just being an arse, the griefer is not an elitist, they are an idiot.
This is a big difference. I never join a “slow” run and the zerg. Any respectful person would not join if they were not going to oblige. Too many times people will label all jerks as “elitist vets”, but normally the people you are referring to are idiots that are just trying to look good when they really suck.
Short of having a limiting disability, that is not the case with DDO. There is nothing about it that is intellectually or physically challenging. It simply takes time and anyone willing to put in the time can be a completionist in DDO and attain all the best gear. Not so with golf, chess, baseball, football, basketball or just about any other game that is skill based. You can't simply work hard and overcome your own physical/mental limitations. DDO is a fun hobby, but it doesn't require any special skills to excel at it.
Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.
Ryiah | Raeyah | ReikaraToy Soldiers
DDO's multifaceted learning curve segregates players by how well the build, how well the play what they build and how well they know the content. Add to that the degree that simply playing more separates players through differences in build options (28 and 32 point builds as well as what TRing gives players) and it's no wonder we don't want to play with players below our level. Most games try to keep things more level here with differences having only a slight effect in character power and meta knowledge basically being an end game thing.
Add in the degree players have to set the pace of play. Most games I've played had the pace more by the game than how fast players can complete objectives in the game. Playing faster than the game generally just leads to spending more time waiting for the game to catch up. One is either good enough to keep up or not, but being faster than that generally doesn't help a lot.
I wont say any of this is bad as it is what makes the game appealing to many. It's just what makes the game bad for more casual mainstream players who are looking for some light entertainment as opposed to those who are looking for a involved experience.
Likewise there is some manner of intellectual challenge involved in DDO. Namely character build and gear decisions. Yes, you can go the lazy route by simply using a pre-existing build from the forums or even simply throwing on gear that looks pretty. Or you can sit back, grab a calculator, and do some math crunching to determine the ideal combinations for every situation. There are plenty of threads asking which is the best and most of them end up having one or more math-heavy posts.
Ryiah | Raeyah | ReikaraToy Soldiers
I think the difference is the person you responded to is in a very selective large high-level guild of people that play frequently. I doubt he starts an LFM alone or with only 1 person often. I've joined several hundred LFMs and only run across someone from his guild a few times. I see them walking around all the time, but not often in PUGs.
For the casual player that logs in a few times per week it's quite common that you have less characters and also that your characters end up at a different level than your friend's characters. Your chance of having a friend on at the same time is also lower because as a casual player you are on less to begin with and so are your friends. So the LFM system is important.
It has nothing to do with not having friends. It has everything to with having less of a chance to see them on line and less of a chance they have a character doing the same thing.
I have been mainly soloing for the past 6 months or so. I do keep an eye out for LFMs but often just run a quest on my own if something isn't up that I can join immediately. It's very rare that I find a quest at the difficulty I want to run. 1 year ago I used to run mainly with another person and we put up LFMs for almost everything. 1 year later I am now soloing as he left the game and almost never put up an LFM. When I look at LFMs I sometimes see the same LFM up the last time I looked which means I completed a quest before the party even filled.
I think the OP complaint is valid. I am not so sure server merges are the answer, but the point is valid.
You know what's fun? Trying to join an LFM only to be told "No, your guild sucks". That's happened to me a few times. Now I guess I could leave my guild, but I have a few friends there. Oh sure, our guild leader is a nutcase and quite probably a liar as well, but that doesn't mean we all are... Okay I'm a nutcase too, but I'm not a liar! Anyway, I put up the occasional LFM when I need help with a quest. Or when I need to farm some stuff. I'm not too picky about who I take, either. Hell, I've tried to run raids without voice chat before, how ballsy is that? Unfortunately they were HoX Epic Elite and CitW Epic Hard (and there it was my third time running it, first time leading) so it was a wipe and a near-wipe respectively, but I tried!
I've played since 2008, so I'm not a newbie... I do my best to listen and learn, so I'm not a noob. But I have a major flaw in that I get lost hideously easily. Even in quests I've done hundreds of times before like Tor. But hey, what can ya do but keep on trying, right?
If you and your friends are capable players I would recommend either finding a new guild or starting one yourself. Losing easy access to guild ship buffs is far less of a problem than getting rejected from LFMs. Especially those pertaining to end game content.
Last edited by Ryiah; 05-24-2013 at 12:58 AM.
Ryiah | Raeyah | ReikaraToy Soldiers
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