Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 142
  1. #41

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The word "beta" is mere semantics, used by the appologists in that game as an excuse for anything that could possibly go wrong when it does go wrong. Either the game is open to the general public and accepting any and all payments, or its not. And since it is, the word beta is irrelevant in most customers eyes. When stuff goes this horribly wrong, the status of beta versus live really doesnt mean much to paying customers, who expect to get what they pay for.

    The L for live is NOT some oversight or bug. They actually took all beta logos off their sites for 3-4 days, and when these 2 MAJOR exploits were reported, put them all back up, but did not change the L back to O for open beta. Oops.

    I also note that both issues were reported in closed beta, and both made it to live.
    I have used your argument before with many f2p games, but in this game its not fact. Beta is irrelevant in many eyes, absolutely, but they have been treating it as a testing beta, with patches on a regular basis. This is a work in progress still. It is in every way shape or form a beta.

    As for the page, yes indeed that was a display bug. No doubt the timing of the exploits make it look official, but I'm telling you, there was, and is, no plan to move out of the open beta phase yet. They are months, not days or weeks, away from it as far as I can tell. Just do the math Chai, 4/30 was day one of open beta, 16 days of open beta would have been ridiculous. Finally, there was no announcement, and there will be a major announcement when beta is over.

    The decision to start the engines of their cash shop while still in open beta was specifically my concern, because I knew it would be a real testing open beta. This is the gamble however many f2p developers and execs make. After all the game has been in development for upwards of 5 years, and its time to get paid.

    We are in agreement however that closed beta was too short, I would have added a few more months to it. But their argument was a good one, it was time to open the game up to more bodies so they could stress test and polish because much of the core gameplay had been completed a while before then.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 05-20-2013 at 02:54 AM.


    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Dungeons & Dragons Online Guild
    No Drama. Cameraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!

    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | GHALLANDA GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!


  2. #42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    Wow, there really are some gullible people out there. The reason that they make the claim that they are still in 'beta', despite having released their game, is because they have still not lived up to the preorder promises that they made. The game is live in absolutely every sense of the word. The only thing that is 'beta' about it is a trick of language that allows them to short change those who bought in before hand, while they benefit from having a released product.
    "Pre-order promises" have nothing at all to do with when they move out of open beta. Zero. Chai at least speaks of the way it is in many games. This is downright sillytalk and factually void.


    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Dungeons & Dragons Online Guild
    No Drama. Cameraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!

    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | GHALLANDA GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!


  3. #43
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    385

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    The game is live in absolutely every sense of the word. The only thing that is 'beta' about it is a trick of language that allows them to short change those who bought in before hand, while they benefit from having a released product.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The word "beta" is mere semantics, used by the appologists in that game as an excuse for anything that could possibly go wrong when it does go wrong. Either the game is open to the general public and accepting any and all payments, or its not. And since it is, the word beta is irrelevant in most customers eyes. When stuff goes this horribly wrong, the status of beta versus live really doesnt mean much to paying customers, who expect to get what they pay for.

    The L for live is NOT some oversight or bug. They actually took all beta logos off their sites for 3-4 days, and when these 2 MAJOR exploits were reported, put them all back up, but did not change the L back to O for open beta. Oops.

    I also note that both issues were reported in closed beta, and both made it to live.
    Oh you guys, c'mon now. Every one knows it's in open beta-beta right now. I mean, take every dollar and call mistakes beta problems. What, seems legit, right?

  4. #44
    Community Member Zai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Honestly whether you want to call it beta or not is completely irrelevant. The cash shop is up, there's no refunds, no wipes, they are selling a product, now, period.

  5. #45
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zai View Post
    Honestly whether you want to call it beta or not is completely irrelevant. The cash shop is up, there's no refunds, no wipes, they are selling a product, now, period.
    To me the jury is still out on the impact of this bug, but it's likely "Zero" to me personally. However, as for the refund comment - I know for a fact that they do give refunds and it's fairly easy. One of my guildies that switched to NWO told me had a problem with a purchase, they refunded it immediately. I can't comment on what support/service is like for free to play players, but at least for paying customers it's really good.

    As for the beta, of course it's still in open beta and has always been. When they go live they will make a big deal of it and likely also have a big sale or other promotion going on to capitalize on the release. I think it's fine to point out that NWO has a bug - especially a big one like this. But trying to claim they weren't in beta and/or commenting on a refund policy you know nothing about really isn't necessary. The bug speaks for itself -it's pretty bad and fairly big. The jury is still out on their response to this crisis - at least to me. It sounds like they have identified and taken action with the big exploiters and are making a big effort not to cause a negative impact for the rest of the player base. That's a good start - we'll see how it goes.

  6. #46
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    France
    Posts
    3,646

    Default

    Seem people forgot about several huge bugs DDO had in it's early days.

    Chill Shard duping.
    Plat duping.
    ...

    Some even made it to my side of the Pond before they were fixed.
    ( in the early days of DDO there was a one to two week gap between an US update and an European update.... in the later days it was 4 to 6 month )

    To cite just two... They definitely broke the economy.

    Now on the term Beta. It has been (ab)used so many time that the term is irrelevant.

    Actually a lot of the serious industries use the following or similar : In Development, Basic Test ( Alpha ) Function Tests ( Beta ), First Customer ( Alpha Live), Limited Availability ( Beta Live ), General Availability ( Open Beta or Live )
    terms in parenthesis being the widely known terms people use.
    There's a few other terms like : low or limited maintenance, end of maintenance, end of life, end of support... but they are irrelevant to the discussion
    On G-Land : Flavilandile, Blacklock, Yaelle, Millishande, Larilandile, Gildalinde, Tenalafel, and many other...

  7. #47
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,949

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    I have used your argument before with many f2p games, but in this game its not fact. Beta is irrelevant in many eyes, absolutely, but they have been treating it as a testing beta, with patches on a regular basis. This is a work in progress still. It is in every way shape or form a beta.

    As for the page, yes indeed that was a display bug. No doubt the timing of the exploits make it look official, but I'm telling you, there was, and is, no plan to move out of the open beta phase yet. They are months, not days or weeks, away from it as far as I can tell. Just do the math Chai, 4/30 was day one of open beta, 16 days of open beta would have been ridiculous. Finally, there was no announcement, and there will be a major announcement when beta is over.

    The decision to start the engines of their cash shop while still in open beta was specifically my concern, because I knew it would be a real testing open beta. This is the gamble however many f2p developers and execs make. After all the game has been in development for upwards of 5 years, and its time to get paid.

    We are in agreement however that closed beta was too short, I would have added a few more months to it. But their argument was a good one, it was time to open the game up to more bodies so they could stress test and polish because much of the core gameplay had been completed a while before then.
    Either the game is open to the general public and accepting any and all payments, or its not. The term beta is semantics only. If not, what are some differences between "beta" and "live". They have not held anything back they would not have released anyhow. The only thing I can see is cash shop sales when they finally do try to call it "live" again, for the second time.

    Also, the display of L for live is NOT A BUG OR OVERSIGHT. Their own admin had a post up about how the game was now live, right up to and until all these issues started happening, then they put their beta logos back up. Its like they redacted the live status that happened for 4 days.

    The 2 major issues that happened yesterday were both reported in closed beta. PW knew about it, didnt fix it, hilarity ensued. Most of the gamers on all servers knew about this stuff 2 months ago. The fix? 7 hours of rollback. Never thought I would see an MMO where cats are the highest value currency.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #48
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,949

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rubbinns View Post
    Oh you guys, c'mon now. Every one knows it's in open beta-beta right now. I mean, take every dollar and call mistakes beta problems. What, seems legit, right?
    Then ignore bug reports from closed beta. Game goes live - people use the exploits theyve known about for 2+ months.

    I was receiving 4 or 5 tells a minute for a few hours where people wanted to sell me a cat.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  9. #49
    Community Member moriedhel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    383

    Default

    Actually they kinda made quite a few bugs that had the potential to be "this bad" The only reason they didn't have to rollback servers everytime one of those create infinite plat bugs popped up is because there was no way to exchange plat for TP directly (or Astral Diamonds now).

    So they didn't have to do rollbacks because they didn't really lose money, sure players might have been marginally affected but because of the plat cap and inflation of plat over the years anyway it wasn't a big deal.

    Though I still consider that 100 times CC charge bug to be worse. I mean letting players create in game money out of thin air and then letting them buy pretend "company" money creates revenue loss for the company and devalues money already existing in the game sure, but it's nowhere near actually pulling money out of people's pockets without them agreeing to it.

  10. #50
    Community Member chance2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    347

    Default It is not a new concept.

    From
    http://mmohuts.com/editorials/what-d...osed-beta-mean

    Open Beta – For all intents and purposes, Open Beta means the MMORPG / MMO is released and available to the public. Anyone can register and download the game. In 95%+ of cases, there aren’t any more “character wipes” after open beta, so if you create your character in open beta, you will most likely still have it after the game fully launches. Open Beta is still considering beta testing, but almost all of the bugs / problems with the game have already been worked out. Developers usually focus on enhancing the game by adding new features during open beta rather than fixing bugs, but users are still encourage to submit any bugs they discover during Open Beta.
    Not all who wander are lost. I am not lost, I am just exploring.
    Smigit F25 (Leg Dread 5), Xappit w20 (tr), Tamix C20,Smigitjr Tmp R 22, Tamik 14 P (3rd life,) , Xsong bard 20, Smigit5 arti 21, Xappet 20 AA, Smigit6 D22 (fw2), Tamok Fvs 20 Smoxfeat monk 16 Taggem Wf Pally 14 others. Leader Circle of Destruction Argonnessen

  11. #51
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,949

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moriedhel View Post
    Actually they kinda made quite a few bugs that had the potential to be "this bad" The only reason they didn't have to rollback servers everytime one of those create infinite plat bugs popped up is because there was no way to exchange plat for TP directly (or Astral Diamonds now).
    This is the major crux of why most arent getting caught. AD can be changed to zen, and zen can be transferred to their other games to be spent over there. Someone who took advantage of that situation can launder the AD by changing to zen, transferring to STO, then buying ships and supplies, and selling those to players.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  12. #52

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Also, the display of L for live is NOT A BUG OR OVERSIGHT. Their own admin had a post up about how the game was now live, right up to and until all these issues started happening, then they put their beta logos back up. Its like they redacted the live status that happened for 4 days.

    The 2 major issues that happened yesterday were both reported in closed beta. PW knew about it, didnt fix it, hilarity ensued. Most of the gamers on all servers knew about this stuff 2 months ago. The fix? 7 hours of rollback. Never thought I would see an MMO where cats are the highest value currency.
    There was no admin post that the game was live Chai. What admin and post are you thinking of? They've used the term "Open Beta is Live". Big difference.

    I was in alpha and all betas. Would you please detail the post which dictates it was reported and that PW was aware of it. Your comment that "Most of the gamers on all servers" knew about such an exploit is patently false information. You are regurgitating someone else's regurgitated false information.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 05-20-2013 at 07:58 AM.


    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Dungeons & Dragons Online Guild
    No Drama. Cameraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!

    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | GHALLANDA GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!


  13. #53

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    This is the major crux of why most arent getting caught. AD can be changed to zen, and zen can be transferred to their other games to be spent over there. Someone who took advantage of that situation can launder the AD by changing to zen, transferring to STO, then buying ships and supplies, and selling those to players.
    Most people HAVE gotten caught Chai. They were tracking it all. They already got who they needed to get (actually ALL of them). They are also on the trail of a couple of percentage points more that date back a few days before 5/19. Why comment so much about fluff you clearly are not up to date on? What you hear people whining about on the interwebs in this case is mostly false information they hear from someone else.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 05-20-2013 at 08:03 AM.


    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Dungeons & Dragons Online Guild
    No Drama. Cameraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!

    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | GHALLANDA GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!


  14. #54
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    2,842

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    What you hear people whining about on the interwebs in this case is mostly false information they hear from someone else.
    And the basis for not concluding that is what we are getting from you is?

    Oh, and the game is live. All those 'closed beta' words on the Neverwinter site are display bugs.

  15. #55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 7-day_Trial_Monkey View Post
    And the basis for not concluding that is what we are getting from you is?

    Oh, and the game is live. All those 'closed beta' words on the Neverwinter site are display bugs.
    Haha. Because I'm an active member of DDO and NWO communities, one of the few (but growing) members who actually like both games, am nowhere near a fanboy of either game and have been quite critical of both Turbine and Cryptic when warranted, and currently a volunteer community moderator handpicked because of my critical viewpoints and experience.

    But other than that I'm a pion like the rest of us that likes to play D&D video games and pretty ticked off that Turbine and Cryptic have decided to go way more mmo, than D&D. However, this is the world we live in (games cant be too hard these days), these are still fun games to me, and even though I swear under my breath (and sometimes on the forum) at some of the recent decisions from both companies, I don't feel inclined to give up either one of them (though I've come close multiple times).


    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Dungeons & Dragons Online Guild
    No Drama. Cameraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!

    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | GHALLANDA GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!


  16. #56
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,949

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    There was no admin post that the game was live Chai. What admin and post are you thinking of? They've used the term "Open Beta is Live". Big difference.

    I was in alpha and all betas. Would you please detail the post which dictates it was reported and that PW was aware of it. Your comment that "Most of the gamers on all servers" knew about such an exploit is patently false information. You are regurgitating someone else's regurgitated false information.
    There was an admin post, they took it down the minute they re-upped all the beta logos ion the site. Ive been in all the alphas and betas since july of last year.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  17. #57
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,949

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Most people HAVE gotten caught Chai. They were tracking it all. They already got who they needed to get (actually ALL of them). They are also on the trail of a couple of percentage points more that date back a few days before 5/19. Why comment so much about fluff you clearly are not up to date on? What you hear people whining about on the interwebs in this case is mostly false information they hear from someone else.
    Nope - the AH exploit was reported in closed beta. They knew about this for more than 2 months and even acknowledged individual bug reports on it - and did nothing while rolling out something that could easily be exploited like this.

    Ive been there since day one, so dont try to paint some picture where I am the one whose info is out of date. I sent them step by step screenshots for how to reproduce that specific issue from a web browser in february, as did other members of our test group. They rolled it out anyway.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  18. #58
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,949

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    There was no admin post that the game was live Chai. What admin and post are you thinking of? They've used the term "Open Beta is Live". Big difference.
    Ive asked you what that difference entails. Please elaborate.

    The game is already live. The term beta is semantics only. If not, highlight the differences that we will see when it goes "live" (again).
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  19. #59
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,012

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 7-day_Trial_Monkey View Post
    The DDO devs deserve some praise for never making a bug as bad as the one on Neverwinter right now.

    You can make a bid on the Neverwinter auction house for a negative number. And if your negative number is bigger than any positive number, you win the item and GET THAT AMOUNT OF CURRENCY MAILED TO YOU!

    LOLOLOLOLOLOL

    The economy there is so screwed.

    Bid -50,000,000 on an item and you get the item and 50 million mailed to you!!!! haahhahahahah

    Then you take those millions of astral diamonds (the ingame currency) and you buy Zen (the real $ currency) on the Zen exchange.

    One person bought $90,000 worth of the Zen currency in a couple hours last night.



    So grats to the DDO devs for never ever ever ever screwing up that bad!
    Yes I am glad DDO never did anything like, oh, I don't know, making it so a whole class can't heal stat damage (pale masters) charging 100xmonthly costs, or adding a mechanic to guilds that has slowly been destroying the game for my friends and I, or take several years for a stupid, game-changing enhancement phase to FINALLY get here, or I don't know, setup test servers, then shut down the forums the same day, or I don't know, link game accounts to forum accounts, or any of the bazillions of other things DDO has done over the last 6 years.

    Yeah, glad DDO never made any stupid mistakes....

    Oh wait.

  20. #60
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,012

    Default

    But wait, there's more!

    Automated Mabar bans, did we forget about that?

    A system that would be open once you were vip, oh wait, what's that, paid expansions?

    A new website, that hasn't been checked for cross-browser compatibility! The parts where chrome users have half the text of your forum messages cut off is awesome, well done!

    Yeah. No mistakes ever made by turbine. Nothing to see here.

Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload