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  1. #1
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    Default Combat System Issues

    Now, it's no secret that I loathe the new combat system, with the departure from d20. But in the present post the issue is that it does not work as advertised.

    It is my understanding that, when wielding weapons a character is proficient in, you get a bonus to hit, and all rolls of natural 2 and above that are not hits are instead to be treated as "grazing hits", where the character instead deals lesser damage but does not outright miss.

    This is not (always) the case.

    While it does happen as described above many times, it also often happens to me that I actually get complete misses on 2-7 on the natural roll.



    I have many, many screenshots of this happening.

    Now, why does this happen? I'm not sure, but my best guess atm is that this has to do with the character in question, Jarlyn, using khopeshes (yes, he does have the feat for it). But can anyone else confirm or deny this? Does it happen only with khopeshes, or with other weapons too?
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  2. #2
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    You want to see it really bad use a bow.

    Simply put . . . it's broken. It's been broken since day 1 and will continue to be broken because if Turbine was smart enough to actually fix this it would be fixed by now.

    Broken = not working as stated.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    You want to see it really bad use a bow.

    Simply put . . . it's broken. It's been broken since day 1 and will continue to be broken because if Turbine was smart enough to actually fix this it would be fixed by now.

    Broken = not working as stated.
    Hmm, I rarely play ranged, so I never noticed that.

    I'm wondering if we can narrow it down. My own screenshots seem to be purely from epic content, but is this due to me mainly having played epic stuff lately? As in, does it happen in heroic levels/stuff, too?
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  4. #4
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Hmm, I rarely play ranged, so I never noticed that.

    I'm wondering if we can narrow it down. My own screenshots seem to be purely from epic content, but is this due to me mainly having played epic stuff lately? As in, does it happen in heroic levels/stuff, too?
    I notice this alot in heroic content since I'm TRing everything right now . . . but I see WAY more grazes with THFing than I do with TWFing . . . and that makes no sense since TWFing is -4 to-hit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I notice this alot in heroic content since I'm TRing everything right now . . . but I see WAY more grazes with THFing than I do with TWFing . . . and that makes no sense since TWFing is -4 to-hit.
    Interesting. It seems it is indeed a general issue, then, not isolated to one weapon type or combat style.

    The more misses you see on THF, could that be due to glancing blows missing? They may not be included in the new combat system, perhaps, or maybe they miss more due to the -5 to hit penalty?

    Curiouser and curiouser.
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  6. #6
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    I've been playing monk-based characters lately, and hadn't noticed this issue in a while. But I played my twf khopesh kensai thingy again today, and once again I sometimes miss on a 2 while using khopeshes (that yes, I am proficient with). So this is still not fixed. Can we please actually get a combat system that works? I mean, it's an awful system IMO, but it doesn't even work as advertised.
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  7. #7
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    re: khop/twf. Is it because of off-hand penalty? Unless you're maxed TWF feats + Tempest, your off-hand to-hit penalty could be the cause.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    re: khop/twf. Is it because of off-hand penalty? Unless you're maxed TWF feats + Tempest, your off-hand to-hit penalty could be the cause.
    If I get enough penalty, I could very well graze instead of hit. But I don't graze, I get an actual miss. This should not be possible under the new system when wielding a proficient weapon.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Rykka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    If I get enough penalty, I could very well graze instead of hit. But I don't graze, I get an actual miss. This should not be possible under the new system when wielding a proficient weapon.
    I'm not a new combat system hater, I'm a "I can't figure out what the mechanics are and if that last miss was Lag loss or if was just another bug." hater.

    If they want to use a new formula to calculate to-hit I don't give a rat's gluteus max. But lay it all out for the players and fix the stupid item, abilty, feat, enh, and power descriptions so that people who don't obsessively scour forums know if a -/+1 means 1% or 5%.

    Right know I've got 2 different verions of how the combat system works. DDO Wiki has the Eladrin version (and reverts changes back to it), while the the forum regulars refer to some unsourced comment by a another later dev. And meanwhile any +/-x could be applied to attack/Def bonus or the roll itself.

    Its stupid. just publish the rule.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rykka View Post
    I'm not a new combat system hater, I'm a "I can't figure out what the mechanics are and if that last miss was Lag loss or if was just another bug." hater.

    If they want to use a new formula to calculate to-hit I don't give a rat's gluteus max. But lay it all out for the players and fix the stupid item, abilty, feat, enh, and power descriptions so that people who don't obsessively scour forums know if a -/+1 means 1% or 5%.

    Right know I've got 2 different verions of how the combat system works. DDO Wiki has the Eladrin version (and reverts changes back to it), while the the forum regulars refer to some unsourced comment by a another later dev. And meanwhile any +/-x could be applied to attack/Def bonus or the roll itself.

    Its stupid. just publish the rule.
    It would be nice to actually get the complete system mechanics out there in a concise, official package. I agree with you there.

    To follow up on the saga: I've missed (in heroic levels) white dualwielding kukris on a 4. Yes, the character is proficient. So it's not just khopeshes.
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  11. #11
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    I get this on my unarmed monk as well, so it seems it's a general problem.

  12. #12
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    Slight necro, but I've recently noticed actual misses while using proficient weapons again. This time around, it was while TWF with scimitars on a monk-splashed fvs elf, and while TWF with khopeshes on a human paladin.
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  13. #13
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    Default Cannot get grazing hits with off-hand weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Slight necro, but I've recently noticed actual misses while using proficient weapons again. This time around, it was while TWF with scimitars on a monk-splashed fvs elf, and while TWF with khopeshes on a human paladin.
    Hi, Dandonk.

    Just following up with this (slight) necro. According to the wiki's Grazing Hit page, http://ddowiki.com/page/Grazing_hit, you never get a grazing hit with your off-hand weapon/attack.

    TJ

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starp View Post
    Hi, Dandonk.

    Just following up with this (slight) necro. According to the wiki's Grazing Hit page, http://ddowiki.com/page/Grazing_hit, you never get a grazing hit with your off-hand weapon/attack.

    TJ
    Interesting. Not sure why TWF should not have the same combat mechanics on off-hand as other weapons (seems strange to me), but you're right, the wiki does say so.

    Will have to see if I get them with a single-handed weapon or a two-handed one, then.

    Though our Trollish friend reports it happening with ranged, so I'm not sure what's up.
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  15. #15
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    While it's hard to prove a negative (that THF or ranged NEVER suffer from the same issues as TWF), I've taken an AA ranger and an emerald-variant equipped with a staff out for a few runs, and I did not notice any misses on 2+.

    So maybe the wiki is completely correct... which begs the question, why? And where did they get this info? Is it WAI that TWF off-hand procs do not conform to the same mechanics as the rest of the game?
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  16. #16
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    This may be a necro, and then it may not be - it's still happening.

    Since ranger trees got an overhaul, I TRed Jarlyn in a pure ranger (he's my new TR project), trying out the newly changed tempest tree. And I still get outright misses now and then, on a 2+.

    So... I'd like to know if it's WAI that TWF do not get grazing hits instead of misses on natural 2+? or is a just a longstanding bug that you haven't gotten around to fixing yet?

    Regards,
    Dan
    Last edited by Dandonk; 10-14-2015 at 03:19 PM.
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  17. #17
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    Got my main TRed as a vanguard pally, and just ran a LH TS. While fighting the Inevitable, I saw this:

    (Combat): You attack Inevitable. You roll a 5 (+113): you miss!

    I think it must've been a shield attack, so I guess shield attacks are buggy like offhand TWF attacks are. Meh.
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