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  1. #1
    Community Member ~Taeb's Avatar
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    Default Wow. You think DDO had competion before. Now its going to make you wonder.

    Ok. I know i've talked about Rift before in a few of my responses but Rift i think is really going to pull ahead of the market. They are going to be completely f2p. I mean EVERY dungeon every raid every area all free. there is nothing hiding them from anything. This letter shows what they're going to do. they even mention not wanting to be pay to win constant weekly updates.

    http://www.riftgame.com/en/promo/fre...p_faq_text#faq

    http://community.riftgame.com/2013/0...rs_letter_text


    So this isn't a thread to say hey stop DDO, but if a game can truly go this route like Rift is doing it just makes you wonder if ddo can up its game. to me that is a serious change to all mmos. most games have p2p areas or stop at level 20, but to be able to experience all and any part of the game for free. That would make all companies go mmmmm. What are we going to do next? So i'm hoping we will see things to make us happy. With the latest stuff with performance issues, long growing known issue list, the forum issues, lack of release notes on update 18. people are really starting to worry. Some have stopped giving money. Now with Rift announcing something like that you could see some people actually flock to it. They seem to care about their game. We constantly ask for something from Devs and i know they try to do what they can.

    Im still a loyal ddo fan, but i can say i probably will be playing a little less knowing these current issues. if they want to get people to come in or back we gotta see some improvement. Im not saying ddo should become f2p like rift but i really want to see them up their game and listen to us. I know a lot of us have felt they just havent and we just dont mean much. So Turbine can you step it up?
    Last edited by Taeb; 05-15-2013 at 01:11 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member ~Lyle's Avatar
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    Rift is nothing more than a WoW clone with poor graphics, bland story, and unoriginal combat engine.

    Personally I'm waiting for FFXIV 2.0 to be released, seeing how I bought the original, the remake is free. The game is very hardcore and unforgiving so most players will have to make due with DDO or WoW/Rift, ect.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyle View Post
    Rift is nothing more than a WoW clone with poor graphics, bland story, and unoriginal combat engine.
    This. RIFT is almost a direct WoW clone, and if that is what people wanted they would be playing WoW, or one of the very similar F2P games that already exist. Not DDO.

    I am not saying that DDO is some kind of super-untouchable mega-awesome game or anything. Just that it caters to a rather niche audience, and as such it will take a game that also caters to these niche type players to really draw a significant number of people away.

  4. #4
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    Eh...anytime a company changes their business model, there's a reason for it. LOTRO went from sub to F2P/cash shop model, and it did well. DDO is on a similar model, except its just a little harder/grindier to stay pure F2P than in LOTRO. I'm kinda skeptical that you can continue to develop an MMO with no cash expansions, and nothing for sale other than convenience.

    As a player, I'd love it if Turbine unlocked all content, races and classes for everyone and just sold Otto's Boxes and Hearts of Wood, etc...but A) they have to pay licensing fees for the IP that Rift doesnt, it always costs more to have a game based on an existing franchise, and B) going F2P is often a sign of desperation rather than magnanimity...so wait and see, no point in investing time and effort into a character that'll just get sunset in 9 months, right?

  5. #5
    Community Member ~Taeb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid_327 View Post
    Eh...anytime a company changes their business model, there's a reason for it. LOTRO went from sub to F2P/cash shop model, and it did well. DDO is on a similar model, except its just a little harder/grindier to stay pure F2P than in LOTRO. I'm kinda skeptical that you can continue to develop an MMO with no cash expansions, and nothing for sale other than convenience.

    As a player, I'd love it if Turbine unlocked all content, races and classes for everyone and just sold Otto's Boxes and Hearts of Wood, etc...but A) they have to pay licensing fees for the IP that Rift doesnt, it always costs more to have a game based on an existing franchise, and B) going F2P is often a sign of desperation rather than magnanimity...so wait and see, no point in investing time and effort into a character that'll just get sunset in 9 months, right?
    well that isnt really true though. Reason why a lot of people went f2p was to follow ddo's example of letting people into the game to try it. As for the wow clone sure its similar but i wouldnt see the graphics are bad. I think wow's graphics are too comical for its style. of course that is just me. my only thing was its the first that i know of to go completely free. wow didnt nor lotro. you still have to pay for storm legion it seems. So i dunno know. Reason i brought this up was they talk to their customers. They get involved. Their gms are pretty decent. they get weekly updates to their games. new content quite often and fixing bugs. So this is where i was wondering what ddo will do in the upcoming months. i didnt say rift would kill ddo just with it doing this people might give it a shot.

  6. #6
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    Why is it that people keep coming up with the line that DDO is a niche game?

    What is it that makes you think it caters to a niche audience? Because it's a fantasy genre? Because it's based on the D&D ruleset? Because it's got a level of complexity and a learning curve?

    The only thing that makes it appear niche is the sometimes apparently low population on the servers. And I blame that on lacklustre and unimaginative marketing.

    I don't buy the "too complicated" argument - we've been asking for years for more detail on a completely revamped character sheet and that's still one of the things that I would like to see more than new content. Some of the UI mechanics we have in the game show their age and are overdue a touch up. A lot of good work has been done on things like the barter box, and I'll even include the new enhancement UI as being a step in the right direction (albeit with a lot of work done on rethinking some of the actual enhancement options and AP cost calculations). But the cannith crafting UI and the character sheet need some love.

    If you think that complexity makes a game less attractive, then all I can do is point you toward Eve Online. It's without question the most complex MMO that I've ever played, and the launcher right now is telling me that there are 43,257 people playing on a single shard. Does that sound like complexity has made the game unappealing? Can you imagine a lag-free DDO with everyone on the same server and a population that drops to 25,000 during the quiet hours?

    Give us more complexity, or at the very least, use the character sheet to make crystal clear the numbers that we already have that actually matter .... sneak damage ... spell critical multiplier .... etc etc etc. Give us the numbers clearly presented and differentiate the game from the WoW-wannabes.
    Last edited by Deadlock; 05-15-2013 at 04:20 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Why is it that people keep coming up with the line that DDO is a niche game?

    What is it that makes you think it caters to a niche audience? Because it's based on the D&D ruleset?
    Yes. And D&D setting. Sad but true, but that's niche.

  8. #8
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    Aion has done something similar.

    http://truly-free.aiononline.com/truly-free/

    That's their stance on F2P. In a nutshell, NCSoft have taken the view that they'd rather have a ton of people that pay nothing but make the Servers more lively and populated. The game is so fun that I've actually been debating spending money on it even though I don't have to. They've set absolutely no restrictions on it, you can reach the cap same as anyone else, run any content, same as anyone else, communicate the same as anyone else, post as many items on the AH as anyone else etc.

    Been trying it out with a friend and I must admit to having tons of fun so far.

    It's a bit grindy at times and I won't for a second try to claim that builds are as complex as they can be in DDO and there's a very strong PvP influence which isn't really my cup of tea, but...

    You can FLY!

    Here's a bit of what the link says btw.

    We understand that an active player population contributes to the fun factor for the entire player population, so we want everyone to experience the game as it was intended.
    If you like the game, we'd appreciate a purchase from our store (game developers need to eat too!). If you don't like the game, can't pay, or don't want to pay—no worries, it's on us!
    Last edited by Archangel_666; 05-15-2013 at 05:41 AM.

  9. #9
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    Hi Welcome to DDO. People have been saying what you just said since 2006.
    Addicted to DDO since 2006
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  10. #10
    Community Member TheNameIwasntB4's Avatar
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    Default Thanks for the links

    Rift or Aion.

    I like the way Aion presented it over Rift. Rift still has a paywall because if you want some stuff you gotta pay. (F2P, Patron, Storm Legion)

    Aion says, it is on us. If you like it, give us money. I like that approach, eventually the money will run out though. (Hello City of Heroes.)

    The only other questions I have are they laggy and how buggy are they. But I can read up on that.
    April 2013 - Manager Meeting - New Forums, WOW!! We just had over 90% new players join!!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNameIwasntB4 View Post
    Rift or Aion.

    I like the way Aion presented it over Rift. Rift still has a paywall because if you want some stuff you gotta pay. (F2P, Patron, Storm Legion)

    Aion says, it is on us. If you like it, give us money. I like that approach, eventually the money will run out though. (Hello City of Heroes.)

    The only other questions I have are they laggy and how buggy are they. But I can read up on that.
    So far, after about a week of playing I've not stumbled across any bugs. I'm sure they probably exist, but I've not stumbled across any.

    With regards Lag. I've had two instances where for about ten minutes I felt lagged slightly. I'd use an ability/spell/whatever and it'd take a second or two to register, but I believe that was due something on my end. I mentioned it to my duo-partner and she wasn't experiencing it at all. Other than that it's amazingly lag free.

    One word of caution for you. If you give it a try, make sure you use the NCSoft version, and not the European Gameforge one. The Official version has no restrictions whatsoever, but the European version has restrictions imposed by Gameforge.

    I still play DDO occasionally, though no-where near as much as I used to, but that could be due to things like the direction that DDO is going and possibly just me being a bit burnt out.

    My approach to Aion was, "Well, it's free and if it turns out that it's not for me, then all it cost me was a bit of disk space".

  12. #12
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Pretty much a WOW clone with a RIFT skin. The game had a good launch and a good first year, then went south. They have already crossed the line of a few taboo monetization techniques which are a turn off for a sizable portion of the MMO community - never sell power directly in the store.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  13. #13
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    I don't consider any of the WOW clones to be competition for DDO. WOW is for WOWtards and I don't want those people here anyway, and why would you clone a game where people could just stay at WOW? You need to offer them something different, DDO is different.

    never played another MMO, never want to. DDO got me hooked because (at low levels at least) it's very much like the D&D I remember playing.

    Nice = not developed for WOWtards.

    Neverwinter is the only real competition. yeah, the gameplay is garbage and there are ZERO customization options, but that Foundry is their ace in the hole. DDO with a Foundry, which I know is all but impossible, would be unbeatable.

  14. #14
    Founder & Hero Gara's Avatar
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    DDO is lucky that is has had very little competition for what it does well. Rift is more for people who want more WoW.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Why is it that people keep coming up with the line that DDO is a niche game?

    What is it that makes you think it caters to a niche audience? Because it's a fantasy genre? Because it's based on the D&D ruleset? Because it's got a level of complexity and a learning curve?

    The only thing that makes it appear niche is the sometimes apparently low population on the servers. And I blame that on lacklustre and unimaginative marketing.

    I don't buy the "too complicated" argument - we've been asking for years for more detail on a completely revamped character sheet and that's still one of the things that I would like to see more than new content. Some of the UI mechanics we have in the game show their age and are overdue a touch up. A lot of good work has been done on things like the barter box, and I'll even include the new enhancement UI as being a step in the right direction (albeit with a lot of work done on rethinking some of the actual enhancement options and AP cost calculations). But the cannith crafting UI and the character sheet need some love.

    If you think that complexity makes a game less attractive, then all I can do is point you toward Eve Online. It's without question the most complex MMO that I've ever played, and the launcher right now is telling me that there are 43,257 people playing on a single shard. Does that sound like complexity has made the game unappealing? Can you imagine a lag-free DDO with everyone on the same server and a population that drops to 25,000 during the quiet hours?

    Give us more complexity, or at the very least, use the character sheet to make crystal clear the numbers that we already have that actually matter .... sneak damage ... spell critical multiplier .... etc etc etc. Give us the numbers clearly presented and differentiate the game from the WoW-wannabes.

    Really? LOL, as an avid EVE player for years, that's not 43,257 online on a single shard. That's online total. EVE has about 450k active users, most likely less than DDO. Further, the actual gameplay in EVE is horrible. That isn't what keeps people around. It's the community, which DDO can never replicate, first, because DDO has no user-generated content, and two, quite honestly, DDO's community is just utterly horrible.

  16. #16
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    I will never play that game, they lifted almost their entire world from the Palladium tabletop rpg RIFTS without permission or licensing. So they'll never get my time or any cash, period.
    Turtel, Turtley Wrath, Tortoisse, Waterssong, Victerr Creed, Utahraptor, Velocaraptor, Minddancer, Loggerhead, Matamata, Sulcata, Ticerratops, Sierrann, Hankx, Shartelhane

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  17. #17
    Community Member dredre9987's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    I will never play that game, they lifted almost their entire world from the Palladium tabletop rpg RIFTS without permission or licensing. So they'll never get my time or any cash, period.
    ^^This
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Oh and honestly, you are all carrying portal beaters on your casters? What on earth are you using it on often enough to clog up your bag with it?
    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Portals.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Really? LOL, as an avid EVE player for years, that's not 43,257 online on a single shard. That's online total. EVE has about 450k active users, most likely less than DDO. Further, the actual gameplay in EVE is horrible. That isn't what keeps people around. It's the community, which DDO can never replicate, first, because DDO has no user-generated content, and two, quite honestly, DDO's community is just utterly horrible.
    You don't think it's on a single shard?

    Try: http://massively.joystiq.com/2009/12...t-user-record/

    or http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/pos...ine-this-week/

    Lots of other more recent articles if you care to take a look

    I saw a clip from the closing presentation from their 2013 fanfest that mentioned they had over 63k concurrent online players as part of the load testing for the Dust 514, and their aim for this year once Dust is live is to have over 100k .... all on a single shard

    We're not comparing apples with apples, and I'm not saying EVE is the most awesome game in the world ever, simply mentioning what other companies have achieved without crippling lag.

    Compare that with DDO stats and draw your own conclusions: http://ddoracle.com/Traffic.html
    Last edited by Deadlock; 05-15-2013 at 12:14 PM.

  19. #19
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Tried Rift when it first came out. Wasn't impressed. Won't be going back.

    To anyone who does go, I hope you enjoy it and have mucho fun!
    There is no free lunch.

  20. #20
    Community Member DynaTheCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Lyle View Post
    Rift is nothing more than a WoW clone with poor graphics, bland story, and unoriginal combat engine.
    LOL exactly this like everyone else says. DDO is its own market because of it's really customizable gameplay / system.

    I have played a lotta wow clones.... and never stuck with them for more than 1-2 weeks.

    I'm a fish on a hook for ddo's gameplay & style.

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