I am not going to go down this road again about how to treat people. I do not hide on the forums. You or anyone can blacklist me. I am not going to change my ways because someone got butthurt because they are not smart enough to read an LFM; and if they are smart enough to read, they are stupid for thinking that I would let them slide in my party.
Is it because you would not want not to be publicly humiliated? When you are worthless on a computer game (game same as bowling), you can easily DC or drop group without begin held accountable, and you do not worry if you pi$$ off or let down your team. You can simply hide in anonymity.
My advice would be for all these elite wanna be’s is to quit riding on everyone else’s coat tails.
Secondly, pro bowling fringes on being a joke.
Third, I don't know of ANY league with that kind of range that doesn't ask what your score or handicap is before they take someone in.
Fourth, I play a lot of golf. Your kind of attitude is very prevalent amongst "serious" golfers. I love to golf. Am I great at the game? Maybe? Yes? I don't really klnow.. I sure as heck enjoy playing it, and spending time on the course, and being with my buddies. The time I absolutely cannot stand playing golf is when I'm ahead of a bunch of "serious" golfers all decked out in their "serious" golf gear; they are frickin' insufferable. I usually let them play through whenever I can because they are the types of jerks wo will rocket a ball my way on an approach shot because they don't like the fact that I maybe duffed my last shot, and ignored the 10 minues I spent patiently waiting for the people on the green to finish so I could make my approach.
Then I end up having to wait for those same yahoos at the next hole whiie they make quiet snide comments about how "slow" I golf.
The upside is that I make sure they hear me laughing when they shank one into the woods. Oh and I love the fact that they often leave me free balls that I can re-use the next time I play...in the water...the woods...the rough...well, you get the point.
Or I get paired with one of those guys who wants to play for money, or end up being hugely competitive. You have to sit there and listen to smack-talk, and all thair BS bravado. Yippie. You're good at getting a small white ball into a very small hole located some 500 yards away. Your still a d-bag that no one likes outside of the course. So you just go with your bad self out on the course, and be all you can be (yawn)
So yeah. I know exactly what you're saying. My advice is still pretty much the same.
I really don't know if you're good at this game or not - and I really don't care. Suffice to say, I probably wouldn't group with you even if I was "all that," which I doubt I am. Because guys like you make this game immensely un-fun.
The upside is that your probably playing it down in your basement in your underwear, and not with a bunch of expensive golf gear that signals to the rest of humanity that you are probably an immense jerk in and out of the game.
BTW, that investment in a cheap ball retriever has paid for itself five times over....
Last edited by Azarddoze; 05-17-2013 at 06:28 PM.
Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por
...And then there was silence
I also respect the fact that you recognize that we would not have fun together in a party, so you would stay away from my jerk LFM’s. I honestly have no problem how you like to play or what you do in game, but when you lay your hang ups on me, then I do get mad.
I am not great at golf either, but I am smart enough to know that if a group is looking for someone to go with and they are really good, I would tell them up front no thanks, I am a gimp. I have no problem admitting that I am not good at something. I just wish other people would return the favor before they start jumping into groups hoping that someone will carry them to “glory”.
This is really quite simple, I don't know why it needs to be complicated by confusing analogies. Those who are getting emotional about how other people run EE's, are basically jealous. Yep it's good old fashioned envy; they see people doing what they cannot and it makes them feel angry and worthless. They have chosen to ignore all the tools that are freely available to help them to emulate the people they admire, but due to some sort of self-imposed psychological constraint, they intentionally handicap themselves.
Let me repeat, there is nothing hard about running EE's successfully. When they don't go smoothly, it is because there are weak links in the chain. I find that the people who consistently appear in endgame/EE groups, are always the people with the 'can do' attitude. Of course there are always guild/social group related 'entourages', who are often gimps, but are kept around by the hardcore types because they say the right things, pass loot at the right times and engage in other ego stroking, circle jerking duties relevant to the social aspect of the scene.
The PUG's I join often do leave mid-EE to shrine outside, I do this a lot myself. This is only ever necessary in sub-optimal groups, which in PUG'ing is most of them. There are two main reasons for shrining mid-EE.
1. We can dump our bars and blast through the quest faster.
2. We are carrying gimps who aren't contributing their share.
In groups where everyone came knowing what they could contribute, I have never had to leave and use a shrine. In these groups, everyone is competing to see who can get to the mobs and kill them first. These aren't the groups where the half the group is watching the other half solo the quest for them. These are the groups where the whole group are zerging together, using the full strength of their capabilities.
Unfortunately there will always be those who will find some excuse as to why they can't or don't do that, then try to belittle those who can and do. There is no deep philosophy behind this, DDO is a profit driven game, an obstacle course that is designed to tax players through artificial barriers. There is no morality involved in how we choose to navigate it, some people have fun running straight through, mindlessly stumbling into all the pitfalls. Others have fun looking for cheap and cheesy ways around it, knowing it was only set up to frustrate and milk them, taking pleasure in hacking their way around it, thereby exploiting the exploiters.
Last edited by RightToRemainStupid; 05-17-2013 at 07:40 PM.
And this has the power to harm the "hardcore" players while the "hardcore" players only suffer from this false misconception. Nothing can be taken away from casual because the easy content is always the base of a game, and for good reasons. Obviously not everyone has the time or will to play with only optimization in mind, I understand this perfectly but... it would be time for the casual to also understand what the "hardcore" thrives and pays for.
But nice post overall, now I wish I could write english a bit more decently but working on it.
Last edited by Azarddoze; 05-17-2013 at 07:56 PM.
Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por
...And then there was silence
I don't think this is a good attitude. I'm not singling you out, I've seen it from many others. Fortunately far more often on the forums than in game, but I have seen it in game.
I've pugged quite a few EEs. I've also played many with my guild of basically casual players. I've been the worst guy in pugs of all great players, that plowed through stuff. And I've been the best man in many groups that have completed. On occasion, I've totally dominated the kill count in some of those groups, with 2-3 times the next guy.
Now, I could easily think that I dragged those guys through, that those gimps aren't contributing their share.
But I've also been in groups where there was one awesome guy who tripled my kill count. But quests where I was 99.9% certain that we would have completed without him. Of course he sped that completion up greatly, but in no way was he the determining factor between success and failure. And while we certainly don't mind a quick completion, we're often not in any hurry either.
I'm not saying there isn't the occasional player who really is so gimpy that he is contributes less than his scaling. But I am pretty sure that you are overestimating this quantity greatly.
Some guys may look like they're not contributing their share, but you're accomplishing so much there isn't as much share left to go around. Most of them will pick up the slack if need be.
And most who can't, are learning. For most players, they will never learn the skills necessary to be good at EE without playing EEs. The content is a huge leap from EH. It takes a while for someone to get a hang of it. Especially someone who wasn't around playing raids and epics in the old cap20 days. The current game just doesn't have that difficult raid/epic dynamic, but at that time it was teaching the players how with Shroud, if not earlier with VoN/DQ/Reavers. All the teaching stuff is gone, since with capped players the old raids are too easy.
And sure, for some handful of guys, what they learn is they can't swim in the deep end. I expect most of them don't stay there long. Don't lump everyone into that category. I find best for my own game enjoyment to lump no one into that category.
Cannith Server :Vice Sovereign of The Guild of Calamitous Intent
Kalener (Monk) Renelak (backup band) Raoull (Mr. McStabby) Kaleray (laser heals) Kalrah (xbow rogue)
And as far as "people don't run EE because they don't want challenge" this isn't very true.. At least not on my server, from my experience most channel, or guild runs on Argo are by default on EE. (with the exceptions of raids) People on Argo enjoy EE.
Now, playerbase being what it is, I'm sure you're right. Most people playing the game aren't playing EE's... And that's because most people playing this game aren't even capped. However, of the playerbase that's capped, and running endgame stuff? I'd say a large portion of them run EE's, and regularly. I'm not going to say any %'s because I don't know them myself. But this is the impression that I get from Pugging on Argo at endgame.
Also when pugging, I take the first 5 people to hit the LFM, healer or not, and I don't wait around to fill. Most runs are listed as "BYOH IP" and when a healer joins if they do any healing I make sure to pay them back for whatever they use. I complete 98% of EE pugs this way. I haven't had an actual wipe in ages with this method, except for when I'm just not paying attention to anything.
Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
Araphell - Arasin - Arathaes - Arawyn - Aravein
Guild: Fors Fortis;Guild of Won, & VENOM @ Argo"And we learn, as we age; We've learned nothing! And my body still aches."
Epic Elite is just what it has been claimed to be -- a widely unconnected mix of difficulty and challenge heavily influenced by race, class, gear and player ability. For someone leveling a "terrible" destiny it is very easy to select one or two of the easiest quests, dominate them with the right character class and player knowledge/ability, and let everyone in the group profit from the XP generated. This can be repeated ad nauseam until a player has accumulated enough XP to move on to the next destiny tree.
There is nothing in this that is contrary to the observation that in a general way epic elites are challenging and involve a lot of effort and resources. In point of fact most epic elite quests fit this pattern rather than that of being easily dominated by the right mix of race/class/gear/player.
Although I am generally opposed to the use of negative reputation and applaud the revision to the forums to eliminate that from our repertoire, posts like that quoted are a good argument for reinstating the practice. It is offensive, argumentative and demonstrates a lack of understanding about both the original topic and its own referenced poster's points.
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