Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 138

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    5

    Default When does EE become easy?

    Hello all

    I read many posts on the forum that say EE is too easy, not challenging etc.

    It makes me wonder why I find them tough


    I run my Cleric in EEs and find them to be most challenging - I have to be 100% on the ball and concentrating heavily on the bars watching out for those hefty damage spikes, positioning myself correctly to get the best use from aura/ bursts and often keeping renewal going on multiple recpients.

    For me its super intense and I love it.


    I cant see that I'll ever find it easy


    EE still has that "special quality" about it that makes it a thrill to run.


    Is it perhaps a Class thing? ie.. is it essier to run a Fighter or Barb in EE than a Cleric?
    Or along similar lines - is it a class responsibility issue ie Cleric / FvS feels they carry responsibilty for sucess or wipe?
    Is it just down to player skill or familiarity of constantly running EEs

    By finding EE challenging am I in the minority or is it the norm?


    I just get the feeling that if im not finding it easy then I must be doing it wrong.
    Last edited by Mantrax; 05-14-2013 at 07:01 AM.
    __________________________________________

    Mantrax (WF Wizard): Soultrax (WF FvS)
    Nannabot (Cleric): Sunsetscharm (Cleric)

  2. #2
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantrax View Post
    Hello all

    I read many posts on the forum that say EE is too easy, not challenging etc.

    It makes me wonder why I find them tough


    I run my Cleric in EEs and find them to be most challenging - I have to be 100% on the ball and concentrating heavily on the bars watching out for those hefty damage spikes, positioning myself correctly to get the best use from aura/ bursts and often keeping renewal going on multiple recpients.

    For me its super intense and I love it.


    I cant see that I'll ever find it easy


    EE still has that "special quality" about it that makes it a thrill to run.


    Is it perhaps a Class thing? ie.. is it essier to run a Fighter or Barb in EE than a Cleric?
    Or along similar lines - is it a class responsibility issue ie Cleric / FvS feels they carry responsibilty for sucess or wipe?
    Is it just down to player skill or familiarity of constantly running EEs

    By finding EE challenging am I in the minority or is it the norm?


    I just get the feeling that if im not finding it easy then I must be doing it wrong.
    I very rarely find EE to be particularly easy though some are much easier than others. Reclaiming the Rift vs something like House of Rusted Blades, a comparison like that is like a Shotgun compared to those little snap pop firewords.

    As for when it becomes easy? The people that say it is are either A: Max geared out (or close) and running with others who are on the same level, B: Heavily geared out on something with a lot of ranged ability/self healing and are just killing enemies from a distance which makes them think it's easy since they aren't getting hit a lot, or C: Super Extremely skilled players (thinking Durnak, Shataan, etc etc.) that are going to just steamroll content regardless of what Turbine does.

    I have to agree though, for how complex it is Epic Elite can be extremely fun. If you're one of the 3 groups above though, yes you will steamroll content and yes you will get bored of it. Can't really help ya then, you've "won DDO" and probably should either tr, or start removing things that make your build powerful (evasion, ranged capabilities, Shiradi for the people who can't seem to do anything outside of it) and then try questing.

    I personally wouldn't mind seeing some of the Juggernauts take 2 fighter instead of monk, just to add a bit more challenge to their characters. Lack of evasion might make them even more fun and make content more challenging, who knows. Actually for that matter I wouldn't mind watching some of the Juggs roll up as a pure fighter and do what Durnak does. Would be interesting to watch.

  3. #3
    Community Member TheNewForumSux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    start removing things that make your build powerful (evasion, ranged capabilities, Shiradi for the people who can't seem to do anything outside of it) and then try questing.
    I laughed when I read this. I have a Shiradi Sorc and I do steamroll EE.

    So I decided to roll up the dreaded gimpmaster battlecleric. I tr'd my barb into an 18/2 FvS/Ftr and being in LD destiny very easily healed EE reclaiming the rift. MOST of the quests on EE is easy once you know how. Pretty much all of the EE quests have an optimal way, but strangely this is not known to most.

  4. #4
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    375

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    I have to agree though, for how complex it is Epic Elite can be extremely fun. If you're one of the 3 groups above though, yes you will steamroll content and yes you will get bored of it. Can't really help ya then, you've "won DDO" and probably should either tr, or start removing things that make your build powerful (evasion, ranged capabilities, Shiradi for the people who can't seem to do anything outside of it) and then try questing.

    Can you show the court where the sharadi caster touched you please?

    Why the hate for Sharadi? My FvS/Fighter can do rather well in EE's, same with my Monk. It's all about damage mitigation and knowing the run.

    That is all.

  5. #5
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Soulless1 View Post
    Can you show the court where the sharadi caster touched you please?

    Why the hate for Sharadi? My FvS/Fighter can do rather well in EE's, same with my Monk. It's all about damage mitigation and knowing the run.

    That is all.
    I was thinking more along the lines of the people who have AM wizards who are wf pure con builds with about 2400sp and 900hp+ in Shiradi who have dumped everything because of the mentality that it's so incredibly powerful. Seen too many of them, when it's totally unnecessary.

  6. #6
    Community Member remember1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    3bc
    Posts
    74

    Default

    many times I saw written in the forums that EE is easy

    IMHO its better for the game to keep it tough for the characters looking for challenges

  7. #7
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    219

    Default

    90% or more of these "EE is hard/easy" controversies wouldn't happen if people just got a little perspective on where each player is posting from. Players with 6 years of experience, with heavily-TR'ed toons, doing mostly guild runs or closed channel runs, have a different point of view on what's hard than nearly everyone else. Players who enjoy playing blue bar classes usually have easier times at end game than crazier folks who enjoy pure fighters or barbs like I do.

  8. #8
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by remember1 View Post
    many times I saw written in the forums that EE is easy

    IMHO its better for the game to keep it tough for the characters looking for challenges
    When looking for challenge we bring pugs.

  9. #9
    Community Member Viconiax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Hall of temptation
    Posts
    431

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    I was thinking more along the lines of the people who have AM wizards who are wf pure con builds with about 2400sp and 900hp+ in Shiradi who have dumped everything because of the mentality that it's so incredibly powerful. Seen too many of them, when it's totally unnecessary.
    The funny part is...my drow *gasp* PM normally always have more kills than those wf con-dumped AM wizzies while using mostly necro/enchant spell...shiradi is good for boss DPS though. :P and often have way more hp than they have too.

  10. #10
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Thelanis
    Posts
    3,126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Viconiax View Post
    The funny part is...my drow *gasp* PM normally always have more kills than those wf con-dumped AM wizzies while using mostly necro/enchant spell...shiradi is good for boss DPS though. :P and often have way more hp than they have too.
    That's the thing, most shiradi casters are not that great...and shiradi is hard to lead the kill count with unless you have enemies bunched up for chain missile/meteor swarm spammage.

    I don't think shiradi is anywhere near as much of an easy-button as people seem to think it is - it makes things too easy for a good player, but for most players, it won't make them suddenly able to perform in EE. The ability to do well enough in EE to make EE content fairly easy requires being a good player as well (and obviously using a good enough build).

    Personally, though, my shiradi is no longer a shiradi because it's just too bland for me - TRing into a DI sorcerer, as that was more fun (though air human rather than water warforged, this time).
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  11. #11
    Community Member backandforth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    215

    Default

    There is a difference from one EE quest to the other.They are not all the same.

    There is a difference from one party or class to the other. A party of 6 warforged shiradi sorcerers may make EE look easier than heroic casual.

    Having to keep alive more than one barbarian can be considered overpowering at times.

    Epic elite quests are challenging and it is how they should be.

    I think EE will become easier for you when you will have the items , the build or the experience needed to solo the quest yourself.

    Then you can create a BYOH party with more people there to help you speed the process.

  12. #12
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    It becomes easy when nobody is stupid.

  13. #13
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Hit Points

    EE's vary widely, a pug being healed by a hireling can handle a lot of the lower level EEs if they are somewhat careful. GH EE mobs hit stupid hard. If you've only got a normal to heavy investment into HP, trash mobs in EE GH will call you a gimp failnoob and put you down in 2 swings. If you've got an insane to ludicrous investment in HP, then you're just a bit squishy. On the other hand, if you've invested more into HP than anyone with half a brain would ever think viable, such as my 900 HP sorc who can occasionally hit 1200 after some tea, then you have a level of HP equivalent to 100 HP in the harbor. You will constantly be on the verge of death, but you should be able to keep up with the damage provided you pay constant attention, and even sometimes live through CC.

    Damage Per Second

    Staying alive is only a small part of the battle, you've got to make the bad guys dead to win. The mobs in EE GH have a ton health, DDO is only easy when you can kill the bad guys before they have a chance to hurt you. Go in that room with the 4 kobold shaman in butchers with a sword and board fighter wielding a +1 long sword on elite with no ship buffs and coming out alive won't be 'easy'. Go in there with a sorc insta killing them with niac's cold rays or a high DPS melee cleaving away and they don't seem any different than any other mob in there.

    Decent damage in EE GH is 2k+ DPS. If you're swinging away doing 50-100 a pop and occasionally critting for ~1000... that's just not going to cut it. You want to be doing 500-1000 with your average damage and critting for 2-3k+, and critting at regular intervals as well. This isn't great DPS either, but I'd say it's pretty close to the dividing line between breaking even and getting ahead.

    Blue Bar Efficiency

    Whether you're a jugger who only uses mana for buffs and heals or a caster who lives and breaths spell points, the length of your blue bar is directly proportional to the length of your stay in the quest. You need to have some sort of exploitative system, such a shiradi force spell spamming, to stretch your blue bar or you just aren't going to make it very far. Unless you just want to buff the melee and let them carry you.

    Cheap Shots

    A big part of the 'easy' factor of EE GH to most people is that they aren't going toe to toe with the mobs. There are safe spots all over the place where you can dish it out without having to take it. Additionally, there are many places where you can bug out a seemingly impossible boss and make them as easy to deal with as a shroud portal.

    Overwhelming Force

    Let's say the average DDO player is a power factor of 100. New players would be around 20-50, and we've all seen some single digits here and there. Experienced vets on strong, geared builds might be up to about 200, and a few can situationally go much higher.

    You're average party is mostly 100's with a few lows and highs sprinkled in, but for the most part the power factor of your average group is 600. One person dies and you're down to 500, if someone tries to rez the down player you'll drop clear down to 400. Now consider a party of all strong players... 200+ * 6 is a power factor of over 1200! Now consider that at least one of them is situationally very strong in almost every situation, so the group is easily 1500 on average.

    Of course group power factor is completely contrived, but its only purpose was to demonstrate that a party of 6 strong players is equivalent to a a raid party of average players. I think if raid groups could go in EE GH quests they'd find it "easy" as well.

  14. #14
    Community Member ~Kalener's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderstryk View Post
    Decent damage in EE GH is 2k+ DPS. If you're swinging away doing 50-100 a pop and occasionally critting for ~1000... that's just not going to cut it. You want to be doing 500-1000 with your average damage and critting for 2-3k+, and critting at regular intervals as well. This isn't great DPS either, but I'd say it's pretty close to the dividing line between breaking even and getting ahead.
    Um... how in heck do you get those numbers?

    I EE a bit, and my DPS seems to be fine on my melee (a monk/fighter). He doesn't do anywhere near that though. Quick lookup... 5d6 +23 base, plus 7 (holy), 7 (entropic), 3.5 (law), 3.5 (fire) and possible 3d6+5 sneak. His crits are 19-20 x4, with 6 seeker. Now, he's not actually setup for DPS right now (last thing I did was tank Reaver), this is more his tanky mode. Plus, that isn't even max DPS wraps, but rather grave wrappings for stunning. But... when I do go into EEs like this, my DPS doesn't seem unreasonable, so lets do the math here. (And I often do for unknown parties... I like staying alive.)

    18+23=41 base. With crits, that's closer to 55 (rounding down since I rounded up on the .5). With those other add ons, not to mention the double vorpal of vorpal strikes and manslayer, it is 86 per hit, or 101 per hit with sneak. Monks can hit around 200 times per minute, so DPS is 287-337.

    WAY under your number, yet I don't feel that gimpy, nor does my killcount seem that gimpy. But you say I'm only at 15% or so of what I should be? That seems crazy to me.

    Sure, I probably do double in full DPS mode (although only with sneaks since dancer would be a chunk of that), but that's still way low. Even assuming I have Sense Weakness twisted in and am hitting a stunned mob.... still.... no where near your number. Maybe half at best.

    Short of having something like Blitz running (which a full party of melees will never be able to do), or similar temporary effects.... how on earth do you get 2k+ DPS? Especially without top gear, as you're drawing that line, not as great, but as "decent".

    I know I need better gear (OMG have I run EE PoP for goggles....), but with a looming lvlcap raise, I've been lazy about it. Plus, my toon brings stuns and various other utility to a party that a pure DPS wouldn't, so people may put up with my lousy DPS.... but judging from Killcounts (a bad ruler, but the only easy one available)... it just isn't that lousy. I've succeeded many a EE, even Gianthold, near or at the top of the killcount when running around with these numbers.

    I've even solo'ed EEs (granted, not hard ones, although I can unlock the center on POP solo as a GH for example, but I haven't really spent much time trying solo EEs) with this gimp.

    Maybe we're all Gimps on Cannith.....
    (Grrr.... damn forum logout.....)
    Was Raoull in the old Forums.
    Cannith: The Guild of Calamitous Intent
    Kalener melee clonk
    Raoull monkey multitasker
    Renelak WF Wizard

  15. #15
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalener View Post
    Um... how in heck do you get those numbers?
    <snip>
    2k dps is more than decent, the poster you are quoting was exaggerating. On a properly played Barb or Rogue you can get around 1kdps. If you can sustain a blitz, hitting 2k is feasible, but not for the entire group. You can situationally break 2k during a furyshot or woading, but you can't keep those up.

    You can do it nuking against groups, as well. Heck, just alternating say chain lightning and delayed blast fireball against 8 or so mobs will get you there (though you are using sp at a fair clip).

    Still, none of those really seem to be the implied sustained 2kdps.

  16. #16
    Community Member Sokól's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Iceland
    Posts
    580

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderstryk View Post

    Decent damage in EE GH is 2k+ DPS. If you're swinging away doing 50-100 a pop and occasionally critting for ~1000... that's just not going to cut it. You want to be doing 500-1000 with your average damage and critting for 2-3k+, and critting at regular intervals as well. This isn't great DPS either, but I'd say it's pretty close to the dividing line between breaking even and getting ahead.
    That is close to a hybrid (self healing, THF and with manyshot toon) dps and in a balanced group where for example a monk stun or a mass hold (yes there are some debuffing maniacs out there that pull it off) can make the dps go much higher. The lower dps example above is typical for the same toon that is starting a new destiny for example imo.
    Argonnessen: Hilmir - Purkilius - Jinu - Vignir @ Blood Assassin´s

  17. #17
    Community Member Ykt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    July 2009
    Posts
    912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderstryk View Post
    Damage Per Second
    Decent damage in EE GH is 2k+ DPS. If you're swinging away doing 50-100 a pop and occasionally critting for ~1000... that's just not going to cut it. You want to be doing 500-1000 with your average damage and critting for 2-3k+, and critting at regular intervals as well. This isn't great DPS either, but I'd say it's pretty close to the dividing line between breaking even and getting ahead.
    How do you do 500-1000 average damage?

    My barbarian does 200-300 per hit and 1000-1500 when critting as a LD with his EAGA (not blitzing or anything).

  18. #18
    Community Member TheNewForumSux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    10

    Default whats all the shiradi hate

    Sheesh guys whats all this shiradi/furyshotter hate? Most of you have probably not even played one so how can you comment?

    If you roll a gimp dont complain. Reroll.

    Also if you are for example and 18/2 FvS/Figher dont go into EE and Meelee you will be a waste of everyone time. Be a healer. Contribute meaningfully and effectively.

    Really if you find EE too tough, your toon is too gimp or your gaming skills are. Simple. Play eHard and practice some more.

    I agree with pretty much everything teh_troll said. You might not like the guy but he is correct. I too do NOT find playing crappy gimp toons fun.

    EE is easy. **** easy. The only tough EE's are the raids, for obvious reasons. FFS even EE belly is not THAT tough. It seem to me people have fogotten about gaming basics like CC etc etc..

  19. #19
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    It becomes easy when nobody is stupid.

    To the OP. What E-peen is really trying to say is that with more practice, one learns the ins and outs(tactics) to do each particular quest or raid on EE.

    Some are fast learners, some have great twitch skills, some take a little longer to learn, but practice, trying different ED setups, gear, and running with knowledgeable players will get you closer to having the EE quests seem easier and easier. Don't be afraid to keep trying. Even if you have to apologize occasionally for slowing the group down, keep at it.

    Mastering EH is always helpful but in a lot of cases, it's odd but true that EE tactics could be totally different.

    Good luck! (Stay away from e-peens when possible, luckily there are some really cool and helpful players in DDO that have enough self-esteem to not have to puff themselves up on the forums).

  20. #20
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seminole, FL
    Posts
    10,638

    Default

    I don't find them "easy" ... although some are almost easy.

    But I do not find them particulary difficult either.

    I do find them... thrilling. Tough... a challenge... have to keep on your toes...etc.

    Seen wipes. Seen even more near wipes.

    Use a ton of resources... often.

    For my main, lvl 25 guy... they are the right difficulty. I really enjoy them.

    For my level 21 guys... they are probably too much to handle. (depends on which ones though)
    Not that I wouldn't try! lol


    But to better answer your question, they become easy when you are powerful enough to do them with ease.
    Knowlege is a major factor as well... probably even more important to completion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload