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  1. #1
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Default threnal ruins levels

    Maybe readjust the levels so its easier to go through while getting a bravery bonus.

    as it stands now, south is a lower level than its prereqs.

    Maybe something like:

    western all level 8s.
    eastern all level 9s.
    southern all level 10s.

    However, if this takes more resources than changing the quest level in a database, skip it and work on new content.

    thanks.
    /sigh

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    Maybe readjust the levels so its easier to go through while getting a bravery bonus.

    as it stands now, south is a lower level than its prereqs.

    Maybe something like:

    western all level 8s.
    eastern all level 9s.
    southern all level 10s.

    However, if this takes more resources than changing the quest level in a database, skip it and work on new content.

    thanks.
    Those same designers are making the new Threnal in U18, Level 15 quests out at eveningstar

  3. #3
    Founder Kylstrem's Avatar
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    Just do this series once you hit level 10. The level 10 quests out here on elite are done easily enough at level 10.

  4. #4
    Community Member ferd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    Just do this series once you hit level 10. The level 10 quests out here on elite are done easily enough at level 10.
    yup


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  5. #5
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    LOL That is assuming you don't break the quest and it refuses to give you the southern chain anyway.
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  6. #6

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    since when is BB a pre-requisite for completing or for designing content? Keeping BB is a choice, you either keep trying to complete on Hard or Elite for your BB or you run it on Normal for completing / falgging

    BB is not about content being easy to maintain the streak, it's about player's being able to play their toons at a difficulty level that is above normal and being rewarded for compelting it at that difficulty level. If that was the case there would be a normal BB streak.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagtit_Ni_Sarlona View Post
    since when is BB a pre-requisite for completing or for designing content? Keeping BB is a choice, you either keep trying to complete on Hard or Elite for your BB or you run it on Normal for completing / falgging
    Since it was introduced.

    And seriously, what does this have to do with the thread's topic? People are not asking for anything to be 'made easier', or anything that might possibly warrant such a response. There are not any other quest series in the game that have a progression similar to 8-8-10-9-10-10-9-9-10. Smoothing out those quest levels a bit would make it mesh much better with the game as it exists today, rather than as it existed seven years ago.

  8. #8
    Founder Kylstrem's Avatar
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    I don't think the devs have any interest in making changes to Threnal, unless they decide to epicify it.

    It's such a convoluted and messed up quest progression that I just skip it every TR life. You make one mistake in a conversation tree and you end up having to do an entire chain again, or worse, Hold For Reinforcements again.

    Then when you get to Threnal South, you can get to the last room in Part 1 and not be able to complete and not know why... Well, Duh...it's obvious you forgot that kill that Beholder that is a required Quest Objective, but the devs decided to not let you know it is required until you go down a dead end hallway and find it.

    And then "spoiler", the idiot you spent 15 minutes protecting in the dumbest quest in the game, is the bad guy who gets himself killed before you even enter the last part of Threnal South. You don't even get the pleasure of bludgeoning him to death yourself.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    Since it was introduced.

    And seriously, what does this have to do with the thread's topic? People are not asking for anything to be 'made easier', or anything that might possibly warrant such a response. There are not any other quest series in the game that have a progression similar to 8-8-10-9-10-10-9-9-10. Smoothing out those quest levels a bit would make it mesh much better with the game as it exists today, rather than as it existed seven years ago.
    So what you are saying since BB was intrdocued I can never compkete a quest without maintianing a streak? That it's a quest "to do" that must be done in order for me to complete, get my quest xp and my favor reward? Realy? Wow, I must be finding bugs all over because I can complete quests on normal without a BB streak active...I should bug report it..or is this one of those fight club things...

    SO if people are not asking to make quests easieer, what is this all about then? "Maybe readjust the levels so its easier to go through while getting a bravery bonus. " I see the word easier in this sentence and also read a request to make it that way... I could re-word this and say change the levels to make it easier to keep a BB active...but no matter how you word smith the sentence the context still impliess to make the quest easier in one way shape or form, by either making the content easier or adjusting the level s so it's easier to maintian a BB streak, but no matter what the request is to make it easier.

  10. #10
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagtit_Ni_Sarlona View Post
    SO if people are not asking to make quests easieer, what is this all about then? "Maybe readjust the levels so its easier to go through while getting a bravery bonus. " I see the word easier in this sentence and also read a request to make it that way...
    I think you're missing the OP's point entirely, and IMO you're doing it on purpose because of your previous post.

    Not that I agree with the OP

  11. #11
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    1: I don't think the devs have any interest in making changes to Threnal

    2: You make one mistake in a conversation tree and you end up having to do an entire chain again

    3: it's obvious you forgot that kill that Beholder that is a required Quest Objective, but the devs decided to not let you know it is required until you go down a dead end hallway and find it.

    4: the idiot you spent 15 minutes protecting in the dumbest quest in the game
    Hey not trying to come across snarky (no seriously I'm not) just FYI as I understand the chain from having done it on three toons recently and on two toons many years ago:
    1 is not true because they have already done so see 2 through 4
    2 is no longer true, at least I never saw a way to pick a wrong dialog option. Though if you forget to check in with the quest giver you will be red doored and have to run back. Obviously if you red door you can bork your end rewards as you might expect to happen.
    3 is no longer true, this quest objective pops up after the main one now, although yeah its still counter intuitive to run back to the top and find him.
    4 is no longer more than a boring and unchallenging chore. No seriously, a bad pug can complete this on elite BB underlevel with little to no resources used. I've done it on 3 different toons recently and it's WAY WAY easier than when my first two toons ran it 3 years ago. Most of this is the fact that mobs rarely target Coyle now, so if you don't stand on top of coyle (first words from my mouth are "don't fight near coyle spread out around him and get aggro and they wont touch him) they never get near him and they don't wake him up except rarely. Another part of this is Air ele ocean gems... everyone has them and they pwn everything that spawns... pop even one of them and it's cruise control. I think if you pop 3 or 4 you could /sleep next to Coyle I'd bet.

  12. #12
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    Maybe readjust the levels so its easier to go through while getting a bravery bonus.

    as it stands now, south is a lower level than its prereqs.

    Maybe something like:

    western all level 8s.
    eastern all level 9s.
    southern all level 10s.

    However, if this takes more resources than changing the quest level in a database, skip it and work on new content.

    thanks.
    If you gain a level during Thernal you've probably set some sort of record for XP pot/Bonus/Learning tome stacking.

    I do Thernal at 7th there is no problem here, you will still be 7th when you get done

  13. #13
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    I think you're missing the OP's point entirely, and IMO you're doing it on purpose because of your previous post.
    Ive seen the term "punitive Xp penalty" used too many times on these forums when folks are told they can run hard or normal when they feel entitled to run elite for BB. I dont think this is the OPs request because threnal is not worth that much XP even on BB.

    I just wonder why this request isnt made for all chains then. Deleras starting at 5 and ending at 8, Tangleroot starting at level 3. Sorrowdusk isle quests.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  14. #14
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Ive seen the term "punitive Xp penalty" used too many times on these forums when folks are told they can run hard or normal when they feel entitled to run elite for BB. I dont think this is the OPs request because threnal is not worth that much XP even on BB.

    I just wonder why this request isnt made for all chains then. Deleras starting at 5 and ending at 8, Tangleroot starting at level 3. Sorrowdusk isle quests.
    I'm confused, it's 8th level to 10th level chain, run it at or under-level and problem solved right? (or am I missing something?). Personally I want my Mantle and Pharlain pendant on each toon ASAP...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    There are not any other quest series in the game that have a progression similar to 8-8-10-9-10-10-9-9-10.
    Co6 comes close, ranging from level 6 to 10, when the explorer zone itself caps at 11. The progression is linear, however.

    I would gladly /sign for Threnal east/west be on level 8-8-9, and Threnal South at 9-9-10.
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  16. #16
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I just wonder why this request isnt made for all chains then. Deleras starting at 5 and ending at 8, Tangleroot starting at level 3. Sorrowdusk isle quests.
    Because it's not needed? Those quest chains all follow a linier level progression. If you wish to maintain bravery bonous on each quest, you can.

    Even if BB didn't exist, Threnal is unique in all of DDO in that it has lower level quests following higher level ones. The progesion it's self is nonsensical.

    Asking that it be steightend out from 8 up to 10, instead of up and down and up again; is just asking for it to be brought in line with every other quest chain in the game. What's wrong with that? Not like it's going to happen anyway, but it shouldn't have been made so funky to begin with
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  17. #17

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    I see no reason not to give these quests a pass again... in due time. Level 10 is a void right now. I say make all the quests level 10. If it's as easy as changing a few numbers in the database, make it so and it solves 2 problems. The lack of consistency in the chain and the lack of level 10 quests to play (part of what puts players in von3 and shadowcrypt for 10+ runs each).

    At the same time, change Hold for Reinforcements so the timer and xp are dependent on difficulty.
    Casual, 2 minutes - 10 xp base
    Normal, 5 minutes - 100 xp base
    Hard, 10 minutes - 2500 xp base
    Elite, 15 minutes - 7500 xp base

  18. #18
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    People still run Threnal???

    Who'da thunk...

  19. #19
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterYuda View Post
    People still run Threnal???

    Who'da thunk...
    Mantel of the Worldshaper 5 charges of spell absorption holds you over for a lot of beholders before you get better options, if you've done any of the popular House P quests and then finish Threnal you'll have enough favor for the time pendant 50% run speed boost in town.

    Not only do people still do it, it's been shockingly easy to find and/or fill LFM's for the whole chain on the last three characters I leveled.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    2 is no longer true, at least I never saw a way to pick a wrong dialog option. Though if you forget to check in with the quest giver you will be red doored and have to run back. Obviously if you red door you can bork your end rewards as you might expect to happen.
    If not paying close attention, you can accidentally double click too many times and hit "repeat quest" since it appears in the next window almost exactly where the previous response to advance appears. It's not unique to the Threnal chain, but it is a bigger pain when it happens in this chain.

    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Co6 comes close, ranging from level 6 to 10, when the explorer zone itself caps at 11. The progression is linear, however.

    I would gladly /sign for Threnal east/west be on level 8-8-9, and Threnal South at 9-9-10.
    The explorer capping out before the quest chain isn't unique to Sorrowdusk. Cerulean Hills caps at level 4, but the quests are level 3 so the elites are level 5. Tangleroot Gorge caps at level 7, but the highest level quests are level 7 so the elites are level 9.

    And yes, it is a pet peeve for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23-A View Post
    I see no reason not to give these quests a pass again... in due time. Level 10 is a void right now. I say make all the quests level 10. If it's as easy as changing a few numbers in the database, make it so and it solves 2 problems. The lack of consistency in the chain and the lack of level 10 quests to play (part of what puts players in von3 and shadowcrypt for 10+ runs each).

    At the same time, change Hold for Reinforcements so the timer and xp are dependent on difficulty.
    Casual, 2 minutes - 10 xp base
    Normal, 5 minutes - 100 xp base
    Hard, 10 minutes - 2500 xp base
    Elite, 15 minutes - 7500 xp base
    I've said main times that the quests with timered waves and progressively harder and more mobs should have their XP double for each difficulty. Devil Assault and Weapon Shipment are the main culprits here. Although Hold for Reinforcements and The Rescue don't really have the progressively harder and numerous more mobs, I'd still lump them into the quests that need the doubled XP at each difficulty. I'd even throw Gladewatch Outpost Defense in the mix.

    So for Hold for Reinforcements, the XP would change like this:
    * Causal....448...becomes...500
    * Normal....784...becomes...1000
    * Hard.......820...becomes...2000
    * Elite.......855...becomes...4000

    ===
    As for the OP, I agree that the quest levels for Threnal need to be straightened out.

    A bit off topic but I keep hoping the Devs will revamp Threnal. Adding a central quest giver/end reward giver like other chains could go a long way to making the pack playable. Also uncoupling the final chain so that it can be repeated without doing the whole chain would be nice also.

    I'd love to see Threnal turned into a real wilderness area and I'd love to see the Black Anvil Forest turned into a real wilderness also. The side quests with giants could easily be turned into Challenges or at least give minor favor. The Threnal Arena itself could work as a Challenge if the Devs allowed the End Reward to expand.

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