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  1. #1
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Default Sell the stone without the box...

    2000 -2500 tp... might buy some then. As for now, its too much stuff I don't want, so its not a value for me. (Maybe a few other folks as well.)
    /sigh

  2. #2
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    2000 -2500 tp... might buy some then. As for now, its too much stuff I don't want, so its not a value for me. (Maybe a few other folks as well.)
    I considered buying one first time they came out, and after thinking about it, reconsidered.

    I pay Turbine to play the game, and now I'm going to pay them to not play the game? It made no sense and I realized it would be stupid of me to buy one.

    If I'm not enjoying the content, then I need to do something else.

    There is really no need to TR for endgame anyway. Just go play the endgame and save your money.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    2000 -2500 tp... might buy some then. As for now, its too much stuff I don't want, so its not a value for me. (Maybe a few other folks as well.)
    Only if you want to utterly destroy the game. I would scrap the boxes too btw - they were a bad idea to begin with.

    If you want the benefit of a Past Life ... play it through and earn in. There's ample opportunity with the Tome of Learning and XP Pots to amp up the XP that you get to an easy 2k/min.

    There's a big difference between accelerating your progression from 8 to 18 and bypassing it entirely.

    It's not healthy for the game, and it's not healthy for your sense of achievement.

  4. #4
    Community Member TheNameIwasntB4's Avatar
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    Default Probably the biggest revenue generator for Turbine right now

    I am too cheap to buy one. I don't mind that others do.

    What surprises me is that some people claim to buy 20 of them.

    Some people pay $1,000 to play golf, some people pay $1,000 to play a virtual game.

    Since I have gone premium, I am eager to see what Update 18 is going to cost me(twice) and see what I get for that money. Since I was a VIP and I had to buy MotU, I decided I really did not need to be a VIP anymore as Turbine was going to make me buy new stuff anyway.
    April 2013 - Manager Meeting - New Forums, WOW!! We just had over 90% new players join!!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    I considered buying one first time they came out, and after thinking about it, reconsidered.

    I pay Turbine to play the game, and now I'm going to pay them to not play the game? It made no sense and I realized it would be stupid of me to buy one.

    If I'm not enjoying the content, then I need to do something else.

    There is really no need to TR for endgame anyway. Just go play the endgame and save your money.
    I usually think like this, but I bought one box because I have a toon I'm just hating. Getting her to the end faster in that case (one outta 28 toons) was worth it for me. Especially since my dungeon buddies assure me I'll like this goofy arcane archer **** a lot better at endgame. I hope. On the other hand, I can use her to 'win' with that ranger level done if it doesn't get better...
    Turtel, Turtley Wrath, Tortoisse, Waterssong, Victerr Creed, Utahraptor, Velocaraptor, Minddancer, Loggerhead, Matamata, Sulcata, Ticerratops, Sierrann, Hankx, Shartelhane

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    It's not healthy for the game, and it's not healthy for your sense of achievement.
    Your opinion is noted and rejected.

    Stones keep some people IN the game.

    And not everyone gets their sense of achievement in the same way you do. After my first 50 or so runs to heroic cap I no longer feel "achievement" by running another to cap because its not an achievement of any note, its just hours.

    My time is valuable, I will spend my valuable entertainment time playing what I want the way I want when I want, and I don't give a fig if you have different interests.
    Addicted to DDO since 2006
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  7. #7
    Community Member ~Grumpycat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_ View Post
    Your opinion is noted and rejected.

    Stones keep some people IN the game.

    And not everyone gets their sense of achievement in the same way you do. After my first 50 or so runs to heroic cap I no longer feel "achievement" by running another to cap because its not an achievement of any note, its just hours.

    My time is valuable, I will spend my valuable entertainment time playing what I want the way I want when I want, and I don't give a fig if you have different interests.
    I know +1 rep doesnt mean anything any more so I got you a cookie instead. Good post.



    EDIT: I dont and wont use the stones. Used one and wont ever use one again.
    Last edited by Grumpycat; 05-14-2013 at 11:44 AM.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    ...and it's not healthy for your sense of achievement.
    This made me laugh, what possible achievements can you obtain in a virtual game that makes any difference in life?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagtit_Ni_Sarlona View Post
    This made me laugh, what possible achievements can you obtain in a virtual game that makes any difference in life?
    You apply virtual effort, you receive virtual rewards and a sense of virtual achievement.

    You do this for entertainment and amusement purposes. Or you can just post on the forums for a laugh if you prefer

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    You apply virtual effort, you receive virtual rewards and a sense of virtual achievement.

    You do this for entertainment and amusement purposes. Or you can just post on the forums for a laugh if you prefer
    that's the wonderful thing about life, some choose to live it, other's choose to escape it... we all have a choice

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_ View Post
    Your opinion is noted and rejected.

    Stones keep some people IN the game.

    And not everyone gets their sense of achievement in the same way you do. After my first 50 or so runs to heroic cap I no longer feel "achievement" by running another to cap because its not an achievement of any note, its just hours.

    My time is valuable, I will spend my valuable entertainment time playing what I want the way I want when I want, and I don't give a fig if you have different interests.
    Rejected by you perhaps.

    Your desire for easy button options to mitigate your lack of time is noted.

    If this is compounded by a lack of interest in the game, or ability to learn and play the game then that is also noted.

    The fact remains, that you are advocating that people have an option to bypass a substantial chunk of the game. I maintain my position that this is detrimental to the game and have not heard a single argument since the stones became available in the store that makes me question this position.

    I've got no doubt that these must be a revenue generator for Turbine, otherwise they wouldn't have brought them back again so soon. Unfortunately this just saddens me that in all probability this will be a recurring pattern.

    If you've genuinely capped 50 characters then you wouldn't have any difficulty levelling at all and wouldn't need a stone in the first place.

    If you wanted to acknowledge that levelling and TRing a character is different from stoning and TRing a character, then all you need to do is set it up that you don't get a Past Life feat on any life that you stone. That way, if you manage to completely screw up your build and want to just start over again, then stoning and TRing could be a viable option. But if you want to just wave your credit card to buy Completionist then you're prevented from doing so.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Rejected by you perhaps.
    No, rejected as a fact. You made a statement, it was demonstrably false.

    Your desire for easy button options to mitigate your lack of time is noted

    If this is compounded by a lack of interest in the game, or ability to learn and play the game then that is also noted.
    Nonsense. The fact that you feel you need to stoop to personal attacks helps prove your lack of a case.

    While I am fully capable of making my own spaghetti sauce from scratch, it isn't something I feel like doing every day. Life is about picking which conveniences you want and can afford, and which you don't want or can't afford. Different people pick different conveniences as they have different interests and priorities, and those may change over time.

    By the way there is nothing "hard" about levelling 8-16, its actually rather easy. Therefore it isn't an "easy button" to avoid something easy, its just a choice of how you wish to spend your time.

    The fact remains, that you are advocating that people have an option to bypass a substantial chunk of the game. I maintain my position that this is detrimental to the game and have not heard a single argument since the stones became available in the store that makes me question this position.
    You are entitled to your opinion. It is however without any factual support, its just your opinion. I've seen it keep people in the game by encouraging more TRing, more people trying for completions, more people willing to do the multiple TRs to support EE spell DCs (for example), and so on. For those of us who have been around for 2006 is it really surprising they are bored stiff of the mid levels? As far as I can tell, the stones are one of the better things Turbine has done for the game.


    If you've genuinely capped 50 characters then you wouldn't have any difficulty levelling at all and wouldn't need a stone in the first place.
    I don't need to drive to work, I could take the bus. I like my car. I'll take my own way to work thank you. And how do you think someone has been in the game since 2006 without heroic capping 50 characters? lol

    If you wanted to acknowledge that levelling and TRing a character is different from stoning and TRing a character, then all you need to do is set it up that you don't get a Past Life feat on any life that you stone. That way, if you manage to completely screw up your build and want to just start over again, then stoning and TRing could be a viable option. But if you want to just wave your credit card to buy Completionist then you're prevented from doing so.
    Yes, because grinding shadow crypt and other "key xp" quests a billion times is so much harder and you have earned is so much more lol.
    Addicted to DDO since 2006
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_ View Post
    Your opinion is noted and rejected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Rejected by you perhaps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_ View Post
    No, rejected as a fact. You made a statement, it was demonstrably false.

    Quote 1 you acknowledge it's an opinion.
    Quote 3 you're claiming it's a fact.

    Have you forgotten the definitions of 'fact' and 'opinion', or just like arguing on the internet and trying to spin a "victory"?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teenah View Post
    Quote 1 you acknowledge it's an opinion.
    Quote 3 you're claiming it's a fact.

    Have you forgotten the definitions of 'fact' and 'opinion', or just like arguing on the internet and trying to spin a "victory"?
    I love out of context quotes, they can be made to seem to say anything.

    Yes, you have an opinion.

    You stated that opinion as a fact. In quote 3 I am saying that your quote is rejected as a fact because your opinion was just that, an opinion, not a fact as you stated it.

    As for the last part of your comment above, were you talking to yourself?
    Addicted to DDO since 2006
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  15. #15
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    You all may shoot me ...

    Stone or not, they need to consider giving completionists and multi completionists a one time bonus ... then drop the XP to 1.9mil/life for all lives (and scale the stone to that amount).

    Past lives are not providing the benefit they once did in comparison to the effort required. EDs trump them.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_ View Post

    As for the last part of your comment above, were you talking to yourself?

    I would like to express my opinion that no, in fact, they were not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Codog View Post
    [*]Small evolutionary change that can be completed in shorter stretches of time is more readily achieveable for us than large _revolutionary_ change. Revolutionary change can be rather destabilizing from an engineering and balance perspective.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_ View Post
    By the way there is nothing "hard" about levelling 8-16, its actually rather easy. Therefore it isn't an "easy button" to avoid something easy, its just a choice of how you wish to spend your time.

    You are entitled to your opinion. It is however without any factual support, its just your opinion. I've seen it keep people in the game by encouraging more TRing, more people trying for completions, more people willing to do the multiple TRs to support EE spell DCs (for example), and so on. For those of us who have been around for 2006 is it really surprising they are bored stiff of the mid levels? As far as I can tell, the stones are one of the better things Turbine has done for the game.

    Yes, because grinding shadow crypt and other "key xp" quests a billion times is so much harder and you have earned is so much more lol.
    I'll remove any references to your travel arrangement or cooking preferences, if you've taken anything I've said as a personal attack then I can only apologise. It's much more of a generic attack on Turbine falling into the trap of giving the pay-to-win lobby all the ammunition they need.

    If the stones were only an option to level from 8 to 16 then you might have a point about their lack of any real value to an experienced player.

    But that's not the whole story, is it? From a previous thread on the topic:

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Most people are more concerned by the lack of lfm's at mid-game, and you want to encourage the pay-to-win easy button for people to bypass this and just go from 408,500 xp straight to 3,590,400 xp by using a 50% pot, 5% ship buff, 5% VOM and 10% VIP? Or straight to 4,039,200 xp if there was a 20% xp event on. Can you really argue that this is beneficial to the game in any way?
    If you read more in that thread, you'll see that people are arguing that the 1 week TR timer should be removed so that they can stone their way to multiple lives in a week.

    Like yourself, I've been around for a long time on the EU servers before their demise. Before TRing was an option you would cap at 16, do a load of Shrouds, then delete your character and try a different build. And we did it for years. I wouldn't count any of those "first lives" as being comparable to the game since the cap was upped to 20 and TRing became an option after we moved to the US servers. The TR option is genius, allowing players to re-run existing content, bringing new and veteran players together in the occasional pug. Something that lets you go from 8 to 18 or 19 is not good for the game - still not convinced?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    I'll remove any references to your travel arrangement or cooking preferences, if you've taken anything I've said as a personal attack then I can only apologise. It's much more of a generic attack on Turbine falling into the trap of giving the pay-to-win lobby all the ammunition they need.
    I suggest you watch what you say in the future then. Suggesting that I only "need" a stone if I don't know how to play the game is a pretty good example of a personal attack.

    If the stones were only an option to level from 8 to 16 then you might have a point about their lack of any real value to an experienced player.
    Maybe instead of snipping my comments on cooking and travel you should reread the, as I think you missed the point. There are multiple ways to make pasta and sauce, just as there are multiple was to get from 8 to 16. Sometimes you want one path, sometimes the other. Nothing wrong with that and the existence of one path (making it all yourself from scratch) does not mean there shouldn't be faster options (ready made ingredients, restaurants, etc) which are also available and highly valuable to consumers (even if some will ALWAYS do it from scratch).


    But that's not the whole story, is it? From a previous thread on the topic:

    If you read more in that thread, you'll see that people are arguing that the 1 week TR timer should be removed so that they can stone their way to multiple lives in a week.
    I actually don't understand the need for any artificial timers at this point in the game. I agree the TR timer should be removed (not that I've ever capped a TR in a week even with a stone since I refuse to grind the same high xp quests until my eyes bleed)

    Like yourself, I've been around for a long time on the EU servers before their demise. Before TRing was an option you would cap at 16, do a load of Shrouds, then delete your character and try a different build. And we did it for years. I wouldn't count any of those "first lives" as being comparable to the game since the cap was upped to 20 and TRing became an option after we moved to the US servers. The TR option is genius, allowing players to re-run existing content, bringing new and veteran players together in the occasional pug. Something that lets you go from 8 to 18 or 19 is not good for the game - still not convinced?
    Nope, still not convinced.

    That was certainly game saving in the beginning, but many people are bored with that now too, especially since TR and even completionist isn't as relatively valuable since they introduced ED.

    What is good for the game is giving people options. People can run through the game in the way they want, playing the parts of the game they want. Doing what they enjoy, instead of making people play the way you or I might want to play, can only be positive for the game.

    Will a few power gamers bore of the game sooner? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe they will be "done" with their character sooner, but maybe they will stick along through a dozen TR lives they never would have before and be around just as long if not longer.

    As for more casual players, right now I have 10 characters, only 3 of which have yet touched epics (the rest are parked at 20 due to lack of time) . This game will shut down before I get all 10 to maxed out EDs with the TR lives on them they probably should have, and that's even if I bought a bunch of stones. I think the stones are the most important improvement in the game to casual players because it can get them to the point they might never reach otherwise.
    Addicted to DDO since 2006
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    You all may shoot me ...

    Stone or not, they need to consider giving completionists and multi completionists a one time bonus ... then drop the XP to 1.9mil/life for all lives (and scale the stone to that amount).

    Past lives are not providing the benefit they once did in comparison to the effort required. EDs trump them.
    Getting rid of current benefits would just upset people for no good reason.

    I would however suggest that it be dropped to 1.9m (or at least the TR2 xp) every life. Won't happen though, they want to sell pots and stones.
    Addicted to DDO since 2006
    Officer of Chaos Knights and primary cause of -10%XP in guild runs

  20. #20

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    While I agree the XP stone causes a huge vacuum and issue for the PUG scene and is detrimental to the way a segment of the player base plays this game, heck one could even say just lack of LFMs period. It encourages solo play or closed group play more than anything. Depending on perspective this is either a good or a bad thing.

    Anybody using a stone is going to solo 1 - 8 most likely, stone 8 - 18, run 19 - 20 with a guild or closed group, or possibly solo the last 2 levels and stone again or run 21 - 25 with a closed group or guild on the their new build so they can get back to end game ASAP.

    The stones have encouraged playing in isolation instead of encouraging grouping. for a customer segment looking to group and for social interaction, this is bad news. For a customer segment looking to play solo / closed groups or is simply just a casual player, this is great news. But point being here is that you can't make everyone happy all the time, but by adding more choices you will have a better chance at making more people happy than you would have if you gave them less choices.

    The second issue is a much bigger problem in the fact that the vendor is intentionaly designing grind into the game (a.k.a skinner box) to keep people playing and paying. From a design perspective it's to their advantage to continue to do this AND to add content that allows you to bypass the grind at a cost. They get paid in both conditions. You either pay to play the content, or you pay to bypass the content you don't like. But you have the choice to pay how you want to play....as long as you keep paying Turbine doesn't care about you or the game or how you choose to play it...just keep paying.

    Once you come to accept that fact and you detach yourself from the addiction and the skinner box, it's much easier to just pay to play the game whenever you feel like some entertainment and not care...just like Turbine doesn't care.

    This game could die tomorrow and yes I might miss it, but it will be quickly replaced with another time waster...just like every other hobby and time waster I ever had, they all have a shelf life. Turbine simply wants to keep their time waster as profitable as possible for as long as possible, not caring if they kill the game in the process because they will find another revenue stream to replace this one just like we will find another time waster to replace this one.

    Nothing lasts forever.

    For some people who have invested 6+ years into this game (been there myself with Runescape)... it's eveyrthing to them, they have built their entire routines and family life around it much like poeple build TV, sports and hobbies into their lives. I can understand and feel the pain...but the pain is self inflicted. You have the choice to break free of it if you choose to.

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