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  1. #1
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    Default When Joining Other people EE and raids

    If you join to level up a destiny then

    expect to be squelched and booted.

    There are is a time and place for lvling up destinys.

    In someones else EE group or raids is not one of them.


    Show some respect to your fellow party members

  2. #2
    Hero thesnoman's Avatar
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    Default Completely Agree...

    +1

    EE implies "Be in your best destiny", especially when BYOH is in the LFM

    EE does not mean "enter now to pike through, be of limited value to the group, and scale up the quest to make it harder for everyone else"


    And yes - two people earned squelches from me tonight for this reason. (and the fact that they were jerks about it when asked to grab a better destiny to help the group out)
    "Melkorr (Completionist "Toaster of Vengeance") ~ Angrond (TWF Jugg) ~ Telchacar ~ Celebrimor (Bank) ~ Manados
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  3. #3
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    I have not found EEs difficult enough for this to be a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  4. #4
    Community Member backandforth's Avatar
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    Default

    I like the part when the magister(1) barbarian joins and says he is elite streaking.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    I have not found EEs difficult enough for this to be a problem.
    I could care less how easy EE is to you. I find it fairly easy myself.

    That is not the point and clearly you are missing it.

    Feel free to post your toons name and guild so in the future we can avoid problems.

  6. #6
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dextrosa View Post
    I could care less how easy EE is to you. I find it fairly easy myself.

    That is not the point and clearly you are missing it.

    Feel free to post your toons name and guild so in the future we can avoid problems.
    Oh I think I got your pont allright.

    You clearly only want to group with people who are up to your standards and/or who you think will make your completions easier.


    Don't want to group with me?
    That's easy...

    Just put any unwelcoming comment in your LFMs or something that shows me that you cannot complete a quest without your perfect group, and I won't be joining you.

    I know for a fact that good players can take any five people who want to join, with out any kind of screening process and compltete quests just fine. Even EEs.

    Maybe not everytime.. but more often than not. In fact I would say more than 80% of PUGs I join complete.


    It is not some grand honor or priviledge to join someone's LFM that has some kind of screening requirements.

    it is an honor for me, to be priviiledged to group with fun friendly, welcoming people out to have fun, and not ask for some kind of resume and references to join some "elite" club.

    ANYONE who wants to play nice with others and come to have fun is welcome to group with me...
    Anyone who wishes to give a challegning quest a try.

    I don't care what you class or class split or current destiny or gear... or exoperience level is...
    All I care about is that you play well with others.

    Yes... EEs are tough. It helps to come prepared.
    Jion an EE LFM and expect others to carry you through wil probably mean a wipe.

    But I feel perfectly fine with a Barbarian Magester who knows how to play the game joining me for an EE quest.

    How can I tell if he knows how to play or not? How can I tell if he is really ready? if he is coming prepared?

    I can't.
    No way possible for me to discover that until I run something with him.

    But more importantly, I don't really care.
    If he dies.. if he can't hack it... he will probably not have fun and leave at the earliest possibility.

    If he gets frustrated and leaves... well in most situations he is stil welcome with me. (especially since I do not keep a blacklist)

    Attitude.. friendliness... far more important to my fun than uberness.

    I keep hearing for seven years now how difficult the end game content is.
    I keep hearing "you must be this high to ride this ride."

    Haven't found any content yet that that turned out to actually be true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  7. #7
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Default Maybe EE doesn't mean "Best Destiny" for everyone...

    While I agree that a character decked out in their best destiny usually makes for a better contribution. It is not always the case.

    I base my opinion off of running every Quest and Raid on Epic Elite in both PuG and Guild groups. It is my opinion that a character's best destiny is not always the best destiny for the party make up and quest.

    Examples:

    Blitzing Legendary Dreadnaughts - How many Blitz's can a Quest/Raid Support?

    Some raids need more abilities that can help mitigate damage - Magistar, Draconic and even Shadowdancer on a melee can improve the survivability of a character. Limiting their offensive abilities to twistable bonuses (tier 4 and lower)

    Some Group make-ups work better if a caster is not in shiradi champion spamming Magic Missiles. Some places the permanent DoT of Double Rainbow can be a problem with timing.


    I'm not against asking that people not consider leveling an ED during one of your EE Quests/Raids, but I think it is better handle using a simple request, in your lfm or when they join. Never assume that you don't feel EE is for leveling is shared by everyone. Don't be abrasive be polite. If they feel that they don't want to abide by your request give them an out and allow them to leave your party, if they feel they don't wish to abide by your request and will not leave, use the dismiss feature - You have the star after all and it is still your pick.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    While I agree that a character decked out in their best destiny usually makes for a better contribution. It is not always the case.

    I base my opinion off of running every Quest and Raid on Epic Elite in both PuG and Guild groups. It is my opinion that a character's best destiny is not always the best destiny for the party make up and quest.

    Examples:

    Blitzing Legendary Dreadnaughts - How many Blitz's can a Quest/Raid Support?

    Some raids need more abilities that can help mitigate damage - Magistar, Draconic and even Shadowdancer on a melee can improve the survivability of a character. Limiting their offensive abilities to twistable bonuses (tier 4 and lower)

    Some Group make-ups work better if a caster is not in shiradi champion spamming Magic Missiles. Some places the permanent DoT of Double Rainbow can be a problem with timing.


    I'm not against asking that people not consider leveling an ED during one of your EE Quests/Raids, but I think it is better handle using a simple request, in your lfm or when they join. Never assume that you don't feel EE is for leveling is shared by everyone. Don't be abrasive be polite. If they feel that they don't want to abide by your request give them an out and allow them to leave your party, if they feel they don't wish to abide by your request and will not leave, use the dismiss feature - You have the star after all and it is still your pick.
    I get your point and completly agree that there are other optionals out there not just 1-2 go to destinys....
    I prefer to do the go to destinys, but I dont hold it against people that show up on lvl 5 destiny that clearly they benifit from and are able to contribute (maybenot as much as one of the power house destinys but they atleast makeing an effort to come prepared and contribute in a meaningful way)

    What im talking aobut is showing up in lvl 1 destiny that clearly does not benefit them or the group in anyways
    esentialy rendering them useless
    putting there own personal selfish needs over others

    Now if they want to start there own group and be useless in EE that fine
    But joining someone else group with the intent of gaining destiny xp in EE content is very disrespectful and rude
    and that simple act alone no longer warrants treating that person with respect
    and will treat them as they have treated me and the others in group.

  9. #9
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    Agreed. This is not a question of whether or not you can complete. I can solo many epics and that doesn't mean you can join and park your toon at the entrance if I don't know you.

    I see Enoach's point, but I think it's a matter of wording. Where OP says "best destiny" he means "best suited destiny". I don't think there's a "best destiny" anyway. On my main I go LD for some quests, but for others Fury seems the better choice (even when soloing). I'm thinking Impossible Demands or Zawabi's Revenge for instance.

  10. #10
    Community Member ~Gaesatae's Avatar
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    Default

    I only care when people start whining about XP in that context.

  11. #11
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dextrosa View Post
    ...
    Now if they want to start there own group and be useless in EE that fine
    But joining someone else group with the intent of gaining destiny xp in EE content is very disrespectful and rude
    and that simple act alone no longer warrants treating that person with respect
    and will treat them as they have treated me and the others in group.
    I'll disagree with your feelings of it being rude and disrespectful. What is rude is when asked to be in a destiny that will better help the party and refusing to do so, now that I would agree to as being rude.

    As for the respect part, I grew up in a different environment than most and have been taught that you don't reciprocate bad behavior with bad behavior. And that while not all people earn respect, all are deserving of it simply as being a fellow person traveling on this earth.

    If you feel that someone will not contribute to your group, let them know and then exercise your right to remove them, no arguments even necessary.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    let them know and then exercise your right to remove them, no arguments even necessary.
    This is exactly what i do. Apparantly most find it rude and disrespectful to do so.

    you havent removed someone from your group before have you?

    The amount of crying,screaming and arguing that follows simply is astonishing.

  13. #13
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    I have done lots of EE runs in which there was no requirement for everyone to be their best ED.

    If you want "best ED only", just post it on the LFM. If anyone joins and tells you to shove your LFM rules, then it makes perfect sense to squelch them or boot them or whatever you threatened to do in your original post.

    "EE" does not automatically mean "best ED only" to everyone. There's certainly nothing wrong with specifying that you only want best destinies in your LFM, but booting/squelching/whatever anyone who doesn't read your mind when your joining your group seems a bit controlling.
    All on Thelanis: Archenpaul Sixblade, Archernicus Thornwood, Gregorovic Redcloak, Hermanius Brightblade, Jaklomeo Evermug, Jonathraxius Kane, and Praetoreus Silvershield.

    Cogito ergo summopere periculosus.

  14. #14
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dextrosa View Post
    This is exactly what i do. Apparantly most find it rude and disrespectful to do so.

    you havent removed someone from your group before have you?

    The amount of crying,screaming and arguing that follows simply is astonishing.
    I have I don't recommend doing something I'm not willing to do myself. I attribute the crying, screaming and arguing to being part of their personal environment and am only saddened that somewhere along the line they learned that a temper tantrum works. Some people are just use to getting their own way. As a note you can ignore the tells and if that is difficult you still have the squelch feature. You have your own personal stance and as such you must abide by the consequences of your own actions - Both good and bad.

    Maybe the most important point I can make is you can choose to stoke the fires of drama or put it out. Ultimately it is your choice.

  15. #15
    Community Member Qhualor1's Avatar
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    a epic level player in their own destiny is pretty powerful.

    a epic level player outside of their own destiny is still powerful, just not as powerful as they could be if they were in their own.

    a epic level player without destinies is still powerful. they are the same as the heroic level 20 pre-destinies.

    it doesn't matter if they are in a destiny, not in a destiny or in a leveling destiny. how well a player does depends on how they play and how they geared themselves out.

    threats of squelching because a player is in a leveling destiny doesn't hurt anyone because the game is too easy and can be soloed. I leveled my barb on EH all the way to 25 solo and I was running EE with pug groups on my other less geared characters and knowing nothing about destinys, picking the less optimal ones, after I realized I needed to talk to the Fatespinner to start EDs when the expansion first came out. people died sometimes but never had a fail.

    I think it should be a case by case basis, like actually running with players, to see if they are a good fit for the group or not. ive seen some maxxed out ED players that were not very skilled players and didn't belong in EE.
    Qhualor, the P2W ranter.

  16. #16
    Community Member backandforth's Avatar
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    Ok I will join you guys.

    Destinies are not needed.

    I dont see a reason for carrying weapons or wearing armor in EE quests either.

    The goal is to have fun and be friendly. When I have fun everybody else does too.

    EE quests are so easy that I have completed a lot of them without even moving from the quest entrance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    I base my opinion off of running every Quest and Raid on Epic Elite in both PuG and Guild groups. It is my opinion that a character's best destiny is not always the best destiny for the party make up and quest.

    Examples:

    Blitzing Legendary Dreadnaughts - How many Blitz's can a Quest/Raid Support?

    Some raids need more abilities that can help mitigate damage - Magistar, Draconic and even Shadowdancer on a melee can improve the survivability of a character. Limiting their offensive abilities to twistable bonuses (tier 4 and lower)

    Some Group make-ups work better if a caster is not in shiradi champion spamming Magic Missiles. Some places the permanent DoT of Double Rainbow can be a problem with timing.

    Prism is a stance that you can deactivate when needed. Double rainbow is just a part of what makes shiradi a good choice for an arcane.

    Same with LD. I find the innate and high tier abilities pretty solid even if not blitzing.

    How many Magister melee's can a Quest/Raid Support?

    I honestly cant find a quest or raid where a fighter benefits more from Magister 5 than LD 5. Then there are the Magister 0 fighters who are just provoking.
    Last edited by backandforth; 05-13-2013 at 09:20 PM.

  17. #17
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by backandforth View Post
    {obvious sarcasim}


    Prism is a stance that you can deactivate when needed. Double rainbow is just a part of what makes shiradi a good choice for an arcane.

    Same with LD. I find the innate and high tier abilities pretty solid even if not blitzing.

    How many Magister melee's can a Quest/Raid Support?

    I honestly cant find a quest or raid where a fighter benefits more from Magister 5 than LD 5. Then there are the Magister 0 fighters who are just provoking.
    Prism is a stance and Double Rainbow is powerful - but it is also unpredictable. When precision is needed by a group it can cause an element of chaos and confusion not needed.

    As for your comment on the Magister 5 than LD 5 you seem to limit that to Fighter - of which I would agree due to a shallow SP pool, however there are many other types of Melee some of which are capable of a much larger spell pool. In a quest like FOT where there are high amounts of Elemental damage one of those types of Melee can benefit from the abilities that allow you to negate elemental damage from the Symbol to the ability that stacks an elemental resistance. This could then be used in conjunction with Draconic Twist for Energy sheath. Couple that with Evasion and absorption items and now the Reaver's Bomb is but a tickle.

    My point which was missed was not that EDs are not needed but that Different oned can bring a different twist on a characters ability, all can be useful depending on build and quest and it is best to think of the entire party makeup than just what you prefer. The other point was that people should not assume EE means that people will not bring Destinies to level as it is a nice chunk of XP, but to make it clear what you expect of them in a polite manner.

  18. #18
    Community Member backandforth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    Prism is a stance and Double Rainbow is powerful - but it is also unpredictable. When precision is needed by a group it can cause an element of chaos and confusion not needed.

    As for your comment on the Magister 5 than LD 5 you seem to limit that to Fighter - of which I would agree due to a shallow SP pool, however there are many other types of Melee some of which are capable of a much larger spell pool. In a quest like FOT where there are high amounts of Elemental damage one of those types of Melee can benefit from the abilities that allow you to negate elemental damage from the Symbol to the ability that stacks an elemental resistance. This could then be used in conjunction with Draconic Twist for Energy sheath. Couple that with Evasion and absorption items and now the Reaver's Bomb is but a tickle.

    My point which was missed was not that EDs are not needed but that Different oned can bring a different twist on a characters ability, all can be useful depending on build and quest and it is best to think of the entire party makeup than just what you prefer. The other point was that people should not assume EE means that people will not bring Destinies to level as it is a nice chunk of XP, but to make it clear what you expect of them in a polite manner.
    I can change the fighter to any melee class you want. I would never put a magister melee to tank reaver. Instead I would tell him to go hide somewhere to save his life,while the others finish the raid. You don't benefit a lot when you trade hit points(unyielding sentinel my choice of a tank destiny) for 60 electricity resistance .

    I agree though that you can twist nice things from every destiny you want. I agree that you can have a character with a weird capped destiny and be awesome(not a melee magister;p).

    I don't agree with LD and Shiradi being a bad choice in any content.

    I think the expectation in EE is to contribute equally.

    When people farm EE von3 for xp you can go level your destiny because all others are leveling their destiny.

    When people farm EE quests for items you bring the best you can bring, because all others bring the best they can bring.

    I don't think a leader has to be polite to people who already know they will contribute less. The more polite he is the more people like that will join his parties. It is not about elitism or uberness ,it is about fair play.

    *Edited out the hp cause they were not accurate.
    Last edited by backandforth; 05-14-2013 at 05:24 AM.

  19. #19
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    With the exception of bravery/first time bonus runs (that are usually announced in the LFM), the vast majority of people run EE for favour or loot which means they want to complete fast and efficiently, therefore it's common courtesy to bring a useful destiny and not deliberately make things slower or more difficult for others.

    Does this even have be to said?

  20. #20
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micron-TNB View Post
    With the exception of bravery/first time bonus runs (that are usually announced in the LFM), the vast majority of people run EE for favour or loot which means they want to complete fast and efficiently, therefore it's common courtesy to bring a useful destiny and not deliberately make things slower or more difficult for others.

    Does this even have be to said?
    I think it needs to be said, if you are posting the LFM and intend on booting and squelching anyone who dares show up in a destiny they're trying to level.

    I've done lots of EE runs where no one cared what destiny anyone else was in, and we still had fun and still completed. I've also seen LFM's that specify everyone is supposed to be in their "best" destiny.

    It makes far more sense to specify in your LFM than it does to just assume that everyone will "know" they have to be in their "best" ED and that they will be booted and squelched if they aren't.
    All on Thelanis: Archenpaul Sixblade, Archernicus Thornwood, Gregorovic Redcloak, Hermanius Brightblade, Jaklomeo Evermug, Jonathraxius Kane, and Praetoreus Silvershield.

    Cogito ergo summopere periculosus.

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