That said, from the OP it sounds like they were just outright refusing to try to actually play. If the party is going to show that they have no intention to adapt like that, and instead insist on marching face first into everything without being able to handle it.... well, I would have said goodbye after the second time that they did this without showing any intention to adjust. Some people just can't handle themselves without a pocket healer.
Most recent wipe this life was Invaders. LFM said leet need opener and had 3 members all level 12 first life.
First half was brutal, lot of them died many times. Sword and Board FVS kept charging to melee, bard with crossbow runs in front of beholders to range them and says deathblock didnt work, it was a mess. The 2 artys were good though they had tactics. We get to the 2nd half part the render spawns wipe everyone, I jump down and tell them to jump down as well for raises. Then it goes to ****. They took raises, started running around the open doorways, also opened the closed doorways, wouldnt go back up ladder, Bard Disconnects, we all die. Was great. Called it after that though, because I can't keep that pace up and wont try again.
All on Thelanis: Archenpaul Sixblade, Archernicus Thornwood, Gregorovic Redcloak, Hermanius Brightblade, Jaklomeo Evermug, Jonathraxius Kane, and Praetoreus Silvershield.
Cogito ergo summopere periculosus.
Find yourself a nice static group with folk who share your opinions on game playing.
There should be no rules because there are too many variables.
You can leave whenever you want to and other players can squelch you afterward if they want to. It's a free world.
It just so happens i did servants today as well. Many deaths right from the start. End fight turned out to be quite easy, we were hiding in the cave. I don't think you can rly predict the final outcome. That's what makes it fun. I for one love quests that don't go smooth. That's what i play this game for, not the boring grind.
Also, as i found out, recently some ppl have such tendencies against zergers that they refuse to follow party members they have "pin pointed" on purpose. Cmon ppl, there are classes in this game that are suposed to go in front of the others. And there are classes that are supposed to follow them and keep them healthy.
For example: if a tank that is 10% slower than anybody else in the party runs in front of you and manages to die with all the protection he gets - it's your fault, no discussion here. I remember my pally life... actually all i remember was trying to outrun the other party members.
Anyways, if they weren't listening and you were the leader then leaving isn't rude in my world. To me, rude is acknowledgeing what the leader says but not acting out the instructions. But, hey, what do I know. Maybe I should be reported for telling people to listen to the leader better.
First out: I don't think you were rude in leaving.
The main factor determining whether I stick or leave despite many deaths is the demeanor of the group members. I remember one of the quests I enjoyed most was one where we had plenty of deaths, a wipe, reset-reentry and completion with no deaths. Why? Because the members of the group were positive and the chat was fun ... For me, the game is not about "We must complete the quest with such and such a success parameter", it's a question of having fun.
All jokes aside, what seebs said is the truth. a lot of times people have only learned how to play one way, and that way is not optimal or even sane. The worst part is they run with decent to good people, who, rather than tell them they are leeches on the gaming populace and a drain on all resources, just shut up and heal them and they never have to learn how TO play right.
Then they get to the group you were in and rather than take an honest look at why THEY seem to be dying a lot, a trend that happens more and more as the populace at large gets less and less forgiving, they blame you because So and So kept them alive at any cost, so the problem is obviously that you don't know how to play your character.
It's sad, really, and a lot of people get this even more reinforced by running exclusively with guildies, who will bend over backwards to not cause drama and will ignore poor gameplay and coddle them along, resulting, again, in what you mention: when they go out in the general populace for a quest, they can't stay standing for longer than 11 seconds at a time.
I offer no solution to this problem, because that's not how my system works.
While I like where you are going with what you're saying, at the end of the day it's a game. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what my reasoning is. Maybe someone's wearing Threnal armor and I hate Threnal. Thats my prerogative. If you are doing terribly in a quest and it doesn't look like you're going to be able to contribute, then you aren't having fun. The entire point of this game is for YOU to have fun. In that instance, I would expect you to leave, and I would leave if that was me. I owe nothing to the other people in that party, so their fun comes in second after MY fun.
That being said, yes, if it can be done with a level of congeniality, then that is the route you should go. No reason to burn bridges. But the idea that even though I am not having fun and am not doing something I want to do that I need to stay so YOU or anyone else can enjoy themselves I respectfully disagree with. And to get counterpoint argumentative, at that point if that's what I'm supposed to be doing what are YOU doing to ensure MY fun? It's a merry go round, one where there's vomit on it and it smells like cat pee. Sure, it's fun and a great way to propose to your significant other, but it's still probably a tough sell to the populace at large.
I've stuck it out with a problem group more than once and we ended up finishing. Sometimes with a lot less drama than I thought after a rocky start. Those that drop never know, and assume they made the right choice. You simply never know.
Last night, I grabbed a pug for Running. It was full of a group of people I had never run with, so I had no idea what to expect. We wiped at the first fight, which is a bad sign. Everyone was very laid back, and we recalled and tried again. We did well on the first fight, but then wiped at the bottom of the stairs even though we pulled one or two at a time and went slow. Even though it was a well balanced party, it was clear we were all gimps and had no super uber toons to carry us. I'm on my Ranger life now, so he's pretty gimped for this quest. Manyshot is great, but 20 seconds of burst dps every 2:30 is not nearly enough in that quest. Melee-wise he's very survivable, but does very little damage. I tried all kinds of different weapons and nothing would knock down the clerics faster than they could heal. I finally started using my envenomed blades thinking if I couldn't kill them, I would at least paralyze them and help the party kill them. The paralyzing almost never procced. They must have nerfed the blades, or I have the worst luck ever. They used to be very effective in Running. At any rate, I'm used to being able to carry most groups if they're not the greatest, and I was practically useless in Running.
At any rate, we managed to rez and keep going. The fights were long and hard, and everyone died at least three times, but luckily not all at the same time so we were able to rez and keep going. The sorc, wiz, and cleric were all running out of sp before we got to the shrines, and the melee just didn't have the dps + survivability to do it without them.
But we succeeded. Yes, a group of uber toons could have done it 3 times in the time it took us to finish, but we did finish. And the end fight actually went pretty well.
You just never know.
But I will say that some of the times we've hung in there and kept trying were the most fun and most memorable.
im iffy on this subject because most of the time its from rage quit so yeah those people will never get into my groups. Now as for you as a player, you have to think to myself how long have i been in here or do they listen to me, have i used enough resources?
One thing i will tell everyone now if you are going to abandon a group tell the truth. STOP lying. i cant stand liars. i would rather tell the group sorry this is not going to work then leave then blame it on isp, guildmates calling blah blah. if you need to lie to leave a group imo you're no better then the players who don't listen. stop candy coating things and players might understand more.
We were doing a fot en last night. the leader wanted to make sure everyone could hear him. So of course it came down to a person i didnt like. he never answered until he wrote ..... leader was like is that a yes or no. then he said DUH then duh then duwerrp. See that is a player that got kicked from our group. thank god this was before the raid even started. See its behavior like this from our players that make you hate other players. all he had to do was say yes not be a jerk.
when 11 other people agree then you gotta wonder why people just don't like you. So my point is being a jerk will usually get ya kicked or just players leaving. not listening is just as bad as being a jerk. So for me if things meet those qualifications ill say something that its not going to work and just take my leave. what does shock me is sometimes its amazing how some groups can pull together after the trouble has left and complete. I have had many of those encounters. It feels good to complete after that. I thank anyone who went above and beyond to save the party. They didn't have to.
I also quit my first PUG out of frustration this weekend. It was an at level Elite Framework quest and I was on my Cleric. Everyone was rushing off in all directions and getting killed left, right and centre and refusing to just stick together and slowly make progress. As a Cleric that can be an incredibly frustrating quest since there are walls and ramps everywhere and if someone goes rushing off you don't have LOS so you can't heal. My job was pretty much running around all over the place, rezzing everyone and burning through mem pots. I'd often found myself being trip-locked by groups of minotaurs while people were shouting at me to heal them. At one point someone accused me of being busy beating the bishop (To turn a phrase.) to the news when I mentioned I was too busy to come rez them (I was surrounded by minotaurs at the time.)
It got to the point where I was out of pots, last man standing, slowly being ground to mince meat when I just decided "Sod it.", chatted "I'm done. Cheers" and I left to people giving me grief for quitting
Sometimes you've just got to call it a day.
The thing is that I'm a very average player so I'm not quick to judge. I've often had fun leading people around who were much worse players than me. As long as they are fun to play with I don't mind.
Last edited by Brendael; 05-13-2013 at 12:54 PM.
Someone managed to pull all three bosses... and the beholder parked himself by the shrines.
4 of the 6 People quit. 2 of us carried on fighting and completed.
The xp is not different if one Person dies once or if two People die more than 20 times. Only the repair bill changes.
Unfortunately real life puts some time constraints in place.
Sometimes we wipe too far away from the shrine.
Otherwise my guild tries to complete... however Long it takes without having to eat re-entry penalties (except when we just want to flag...).-
kruemeli - Orien. Leader of the "Merry" Hobbits
It's OK to be "merry":
Everyone will have their own definition of "when they are done trying". It will have different factors depending on the person.
Someone that joins a group for a fast completion may feel the need to leave when they realize that the completion is going to take longer then they want it too.
Personally I stick it out until the last person. I may or may not use extra resources (Judgment call)
However, if you feel that it is just not working out and you feel you must leave, be honest about it. I have used the following to help others see that we are just hitting our heads against a wall
"I looks like our current group make up just isn't working" <- This does not put the blame on any one person.
Also be honest with your resource usage - especially on a character that is providing the primary source of healing.
As for leaving a group mid-quest the only time it is a In-Game offense is if you Curse the day the Party was made in chat and then Rage Quit. And the offense would be in the language used, not in you quitting.
Most of the time, if someone steps up and offers a plan, the rest fall into line. I've been the weak link of the party, and I've been the guy who coordinates the group. When I was the weak link, I offered up what I could to get through the quest, and we all worked around it. When I ended up being the leader, I offered a plan, and people worked with it. Were there a few deaths? Sure. But we got through the quest.
Really, the only thing you can do in the situation you've described is to recall and bolt. If they will not work together, won't take advice from the one guy who is not dying in the quest, and start berating the healer (heck, these days they sould be GLAD they had a dedicated healer), it's time to just move on. if they are that idiotic, they are not going to listen to reason regardless of the source.
And if they squelch you, consider it a bonus.
Secondly, I just noticed the part where you mentioned about the tells the guys was sending you. You should have called his bluff. Tell him to go whining to a GM or whomever. Odds are, nothing would come of it.
It sounds like something a 9-year old would do.
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