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  1. #21
    Community Member Aussir's Avatar
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    Ok, so I managed to copy one character from that list of re-rolls that is appearing for me, that happened to have level to go into these quests.

    Let me put this in a very simple way:

    - I get more exp from level 3 quests than from this
    - The lousy exp means I won't pay a hoot to these quests on live server.
    - It already makes hard for me to even test them on Lam when I know I'm going to ignore them on live unless the exp is changed (me and other people...)

    Overall, the quests are nice and not bad implemented... maybe a little bit less of the "kill all the mobs to go on" fad. If you want to do that, get rid of DA.

    However... the exp makes these quests just a "run once for favor and ignore"... if even that.
    We need more exp between levels 15-19... not this misery.
    Last edited by Aussir; 05-08-2013 at 01:17 PM.
    DDO-Europe 2006/2010 - Aureon/Keeper

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  2. #22
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durnak View Post
    Boy, you folks at turbine sure know how to keep your supporters happy.

    Seriously? This next update has new content in FR, and it doesn't have anything to offer to those of us who are patiently slaving away at EGH because there's nothing else to do again...

    And to add insult to injury, the TR folks who might enjoy the refreshing content get crappy XP to show for it.

    Classy
    This and a couple of other things:

    Update 18 was supposed to have Toughness Augment: where is it?

    Is it a free pack?
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    This and a couple of other things:

    Update 18 was supposed to have Toughness Augment: where is it?

    Is it a free pack?
    It's supposed to be in the crucible doubt anyone has checked yet.

  4. #24
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrelarVersion2 View Post
    It's supposed to be in the crucible doubt anyone has checked yet.
    Right, I forgot about that. Someone check it if you can, please.
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Update 18 was supposed to have Toughness Augment: where is it?
    Sitting on the treasure room floor of the dojo. Approximately in the center of the room.
    Things worthy of Standing Stone going EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on.:
    • NEW - Fix the flipping non-proficiency penalties for wildshape!
    • Redo the Favor rewards so there is a reason to do max favor again.
    • Redoing the drop rates of tomes in generic and raid loot tables.
    • Task Lynnabel with updating the remaining legacy named loot to not suck.
    • Tiering the Runearms so that artificers aren’t screwed out of the advantages of Cannith Crafting in Epic levels on their signature item.
    • Finishing the enhancement tree passes (including racial PrE’s) before rolling out yet another DDOStore™ Enhancement Tree.

  6. #26
    Lead Developer PurpleFooz's Avatar
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    The current XP settings for all three quests are just placeholder values, practically a string of random numbers.

    Setting XP is always the very last thing we do before the dungeons go live. That's because in order to evaluate how much XP a dungeon should be worth, we want for every other feature in the dungeon to be fully working, and we want to get difficulty feedback from everyone on Lamannia first.

    So please give us feedback about difficulty and how much XP these dungeons should be worth, but don't be concerned that the settings are bad now.

  7. #27
    Community Member Aussir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    The current XP settings for all three quests are just placeholder values, practically a string of random numbers.

    Setting XP is always the very last thing we do before the dungeons go live. That's because in order to evaluate how much XP a dungeon should be worth, we want for every other feature in the dungeon to be fully working, and we want to get difficulty feedback from everyone on Lamannia first.

    So please give us feedback about difficulty and how much XP these dungeons should be worth, but don't be concerned that the settings are bad now.
    Oh... so, another Druid's Deep (heroic) on the way...? AWESOME!!


    Honestly, think about what you guys have been doing to the exp on certain high(er) level quests and then wonder why we react like this...
    Last edited by Aussir; 05-08-2013 at 08:26 PM.
    DDO-Europe 2006/2010 - Aureon/Keeper

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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    The current XP settings for all three quests are just placeholder values, practically a string of random numbers.

    Setting XP is always the very last thing we do before the dungeons go live. That's because in order to evaluate how much XP a dungeon should be worth, we want for every other feature in the dungeon to be fully working, and we want to get difficulty feedback from everyone on Lamannia first.

    So please give us feedback about difficulty and how much XP these dungeons should be worth, but don't be concerned that the settings are bad now.
    Well, the problem is that the "placeholder values" of the XP of quests on Lamannia ALWAYS end up being the XP found on live, no matter how vocal players are about the poor XP.

    There was no adjustment for the XP in the House C quests, the heroic Druid's Deep quests, and the heroic MOTU quests. Those are three different releases that players were very vocal about the poor XP being administered to quests. Notice that all three are upper Heroic levels that need some good XP. Also notice Druid's Deep also has epic versions that I believe very few complained about the amount of XP received there. The XP applied to the upper Heroic quests have been dismal for a very long time.

    You know, if these quests (along with other upper Heroic quests, such as Amarth) were given better XP, there would be less segregation between levels 18 and 19 characters and Epic characters. You've already installed an artificial barrier to prevent upper Heroics from entering Epic quests. By giving the Heroic quests horrible XP, you have also extended an invisible barrier between the upper Heroics and lower Epics that should be able to play with each other without suffer penalties.

    As someone above mentioned, the poor XP from these quests makes it unlikely that players will run these quests, even though the XP and variety are needed at the upper heroic levels. You keep spending time making quests that people should be enjoying and running often, but it's horrible decisions like suppressing the XP in all these quests that make the quests run less often, if at all.

    Please get yalls act together with the XP in the upper heroics. And not only revaluate the XP in these three minor quests, but several other upper heroic quests. You can start with the three packs mentioned above (Amarth, House C and Druid's Deep) along with the two heroic side quests in MOTU.

  9. #29
    2015 DDO Players Council Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    The current XP settings for all three quests are just placeholder values, practically a string of random numbers.

    Setting XP is always the very last thing we do before the dungeons go live. That's because in order to evaluate how much XP a dungeon should be worth, we want for every other feature in the dungeon to be fully working, and we want to get difficulty feedback from everyone on Lamannia first.

    So please give us feedback about difficulty and how much XP these dungeons should be worth, but don't be concerned that the settings are bad now.
    You address the xp side, which is nice to hear. But what about the epic option? What the hell am I renewing my VIP subscription for, if I'm stuck doing the same content as updates roll by.
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  10. #30
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    Yeah, make them have epic please. Even it's just the crappy old inflated stat method of making something epic, it's better than nothing.

  11. #31

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    Do you have a way of monitoring the average completion time for the quest? Surely there is a debug trace log in there somewhere, right?

    So quest level x 2,000 (1 rank on 1st life @ level) * avg completion time by at level chars / 60 would baseline the quest at giving one rank to 1st life toons / hour - not at all unreasonable. TRs would complete faster, but need more XP. This would be a great way to set optional XP as well - if it doubles the length of the quest, it better not be 15% additional experience ...

    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    The current XP settings for all three quests are just placeholder values, practically a string of random numbers.

    Setting XP is always the very last thing we do before the dungeons go live. That's because in order to evaluate how much XP a dungeon should be worth, we want for every other feature in the dungeon to be fully working, and we want to get difficulty feedback from everyone on Lamannia first.

    So please give us feedback about difficulty and how much XP these dungeons should be worth, but don't be concerned that the settings are bad now.

  12. #32
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    Yeah, make them have epic please. Even it's just the crappy old inflated stat method of making something epic, it's better than nothing.
    No, it's not better than nothing. Epic requires loot worth hunting for or people just won't bother. Look at 90% of the Eberon epics.

    Still, I'm seriously questioning the sanity of the existence of a level 15 pack when you need to run a level 16 chain to get to the area in the first place. It makes no sense.

  13. #33
    Community Member ~NiborRis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    The current XP settings for all three quests are just placeholder values, practically a string of random numbers.

    Setting XP is always the very last thing we do before the dungeons go live. That's because in order to evaluate how much XP a dungeon should be worth, we want for every other feature in the dungeon to be fully working, and we want to get difficulty feedback from everyone on Lamannia first.

    So please give us feedback about difficulty and how much XP these dungeons should be worth, but don't be concerned that the settings are bad now.
    In the future, if you really want us to believe that the XP values are placeholder, make the values absurd. Set the base xp to 1, or to 500000. Something that you have to change before it goes live, and something we *know* you have to change before it goes live. Don't use semi-reasonable lowball estimates for the values.

  14. #34
    Lead Developer PurpleFooz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NiborRis View Post
    In the future, if you really want us to believe that the XP values are placeholder, make the values absurd. Set the base xp to 1, or to 500000. Something that you have to change before it goes live, and something we *know* you have to change before it goes live. Don't use semi-reasonable lowball estimates for the values.
    Ironically, our code has safety checks for putting in values that are that "absurd."

    Our final XP settings shouldn't be as low as what Cannith went out with for its level, but these dungeons won't be the highest XP dungeons you'll see at Lv 15. We don't want to make these the new things that everyone farms in the mid-teens.

    However, some new named treasure is going into these dungeons. We're really excited about them, and they should make these dungeons worth running a few times to get a few of the best items. They'll be in the next time Lamannia is updated.

  15. #35
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    these dungeons won't be the highest XP dungeons you'll see at Lv 15. We don't want to make these the new things that everyone farms in the mid-teens.
    Why not?
    Wouldn't you want people to be foaming at the mouth to buy these for the great xp?
    Honest question...

    So looking at the current lvl 15 quests, that means the base xp for elite will be somewhere between 2,180 and 9,460.
    That's a big gap!
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  16. #36
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    Ironically, our code has safety checks for putting in values that are that "absurd."

    Our final XP settings shouldn't be as low as what Cannith went out with for its level, but these dungeons won't be the highest XP dungeons you'll see at Lv 15. We don't want to make these the new things that everyone farms in the mid-teens.

    However, some new named treasure is going into these dungeons. We're really excited about them, and they should make these dungeons worth running a few times to get a few of the best items. They'll be in the next time Lamannia is updated.
    I second Danotmano, why not? L15 is kind of a dead zone anyway. Why aim for making quests that people don't want to run more than a "few times" ever?

    And as far as named items go... really? There's going to be items from L15 quests that lvl 25/8 toons want? It's possible, new clickies or something, but I'm not holding my breath. We don't need new and improved twink gear. To what extent there was a shortage of good twink gear it was fixed in U17. The game really doesn't need some more OK twink gear like we got from U12-15.

    Please don't make the same sad mistake of u14-15. Such awesome quests... that get run maybe once a TR with a bunch of twink gear that's *maybe* worth keeping on a mule. At least make the XP decent like u12/13.

    Sad Panda
    Last edited by SerPounce; 05-09-2013 at 10:24 PM.

  17. #37
    Community Member Aussir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    Ironically, our code has safety checks for putting in values that are that "absurd."

    Our final XP settings shouldn't be as low as what Cannith went out with for its level, but these dungeons won't be the highest XP dungeons you'll see at Lv 15. We don't want to make these the new things that everyone farms in the mid-teens.

    However, some new named treasure is going into these dungeons. We're really excited about them, and they should make these dungeons worth running a few times to get a few of the best items. They'll be in the next time Lamannia is updated.
    Let me explain something to you about leveling up and why green steel isn't an option except for TR's: By the time you have anything decent, you're past the level.

    Got it? Good...

    Now... you're going to dish out quests with p**s poor exp a la Druid's Deep and throw in a few items so that people run it a few times... in the meantime, people will get fed up of the quests and move on to something with better exp and ditch these. Maybe level 25's will give it a run on H.E. for favor.

    Do you see the complete failure to read your customers and the lack of touch with the game, now? Bad design is bad.

    Ditch the "uber" named loot and give us exp because we need that more at level 15 than twink gear.
    DDO-Europe 2006/2010 - Aureon/Keeper

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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    Ironically, our code has safety checks for putting in values that are that "absurd."

    Our final XP settings shouldn't be as low as what Cannith went out with for its level, but these dungeons won't be the highest XP dungeons you'll see at Lv 15. We don't want to make these the new things that everyone farms in the mid-teens.

    However, some new named treasure is going into these dungeons. We're really excited about them, and they should make these dungeons worth running a few times to get a few of the best items. They'll be in the next time Lamannia is updated.
    Well, at least we (sorta) got an admission from a Dev that House C quests have horrible XP for its level. So please, adjust the XP for that pack finally.

    I'm not looking for these quests to be the new Litany, but they need an XP adjustment so that they are worth running.

    I fear Escape Plan will still be in the horrible Sinister Storage range (1,219/2,116/2,200/2,284) though. Hint to Devs: Sinister Storage is another quest that could use a bit of an XP adjustment, at least in the Hard and Elite difficulties. In fact, the XP (if kept low) for Escape Plan should double as the difficulty increases. Heck, the same should be for Sinister Storage and any other quest where players wait for the next wave to spawn and the spawns are much more difficult or multiple at higher difficulties, such as Devil Assault and Weapon Shipment.

    As for the other quests, they'll probably be bumped up to Delerium (2,212/3,844/4,000/4,156) or Acid Wit (2,378/4,132/4,300/4,468) range. If this is the plan by the Devs, I'd like to point out that both of these quests can get a good chunk of extra XP from optionals (especially Acid Wit) that aren't really available in new quests (outside the hidden door in Disciples).

    I'll reserve my opinion about the new gear until they are revealed. If the gear is primarily non-weapons that have utility in Epics, then I have no real problem. If it's armor and shields that Druids can use, I have no problem since it'll give Druids some more variety. If it's a new unique "usable" Docent for WF, then I have to problem. But if it's just some new weapons that become obsolete in Epics (or prior to Epics, which is even worse), then I'm going to be disappointed.

    So quickly obsolete weapons and twink gear will probably be received negatively. If it's gear that can be used in Epics (such as VoM, Torc, Minos, Visor of the Flesh Render Guards, Silver Flame Pendant), then it will probably be properly received by the players.

  19. #39
    Community Member Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexfax View Post
    I'll reserve my opinion about the new gear until they are revealed. If the gear is primarily non-weapons that have utility in Epics, then I have no real problem. If it's armor and shields that Druids can use, I have no problem since it'll give Druids some more variety. If it's a new unique "usable" Docent for WF, then I have to problem. But if it's just some new weapons that become obsolete in Epics (or prior to Epics, which is even worse), then I'm going to be disappointed.
    Items from LVL 15 quests ( or said another way : ML 10-12 items ) can only be one thing : twink gear, no way you're going to carry such an item in Epics, it will be obsoleted.
    Everybody has heaps of it.
    Unless the items are best in slot at that level there's about no point to run the quests except once for the Favor and the First Time XP.
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  20. #40
    Community Member ~kruemeli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    Items from LVL 15 quests ( or said another way : ML 10-12 items ) can only be one thing : twink gear, no way you're going to carry such an item in Epics, it will be obsoleted.
    Everybody has heaps of it.
    Unless the items are best in slot at that level there's about no point to run the quests except once for the Favor and the First Time XP.
    I dunno... I could see a use for another named teleport clicky... or even greater teleport... or a ressurection clicky... or a fireshield clicky... or a displacement clicky... maybe better for first lifers to farm those rather than rererun the shroud... or restless isles...
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