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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    It's amazing how desperate some people are to have these threads locked or removed. Those people really shouldn't invest so much of their ego's into their online personas. Then they wouldn't have to worry so much about saving face when forced to back down from a ridiculous position.

    We've seen pretty much every kind of trolling attempt used so far, to deflect and derail the discussion, including namecalling and tantrums. As a last resort, profanities and sexual innuendo is being used to attract moderator intervention.

    A strawman argument is the deliberate misrepresentation of the position someone has taken on an issue when attempting to challenge it. I didn't invent it, it's just the description of a very popluar logical fallacy that gets used on internet forums. My uses of the term strawman in both of these threads has been accurate.
    So, you like to sell loot, and some people think that you are scum because of it. Regardless of how much it happens, people will and are entitled to think that way... in the same way you are entitled to continue on selling loot.
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  2. #42
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    I realize only a tiny percentage of players read the forums. I also understand that many of those that do will be hesitant to post in this thread, due to the stigma of being identified and persecuted. For those so inclined, I would like to hear your stories about any incidences where you have bought or sold bound to character loot by passing it in a chest, or have witnessed anyone doing so. You don't have to go into detail, I'm just looking for verification that this occurs. I don't want any names or guilds, just cases where it has been observed. Thanks in advance.
    I rently had an incident with a player from Ze** Ze** Guild.
    Was in a pug VOD on my Rogue splash (at level) was trying to get the goggles for future TR lives.

    Quest went decently well and goggles dropped for this other Rogue, he typed into party Trade for 1 FRDS.
    Everyone in the party was .. ahh no we dont buy loot, etc....no one would trade.
    He left it in the chest and recalled.
    He made a few peoples special friends list.
    If anyone had traded for it. they would have made it to the list as well.
    I relayed a message to the Guild leader and left it for them to sort out.
    Last edited by JOTMON; 05-13-2013 at 08:10 AM.
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    and several once viable raiding alts dumped into the packmule stables..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Too bad I 'purchased' maximum character slots for my account, SSG has now chosen to cater the giveaway perks to benefit multiple freebie accounts instead of the paying customers.

  3. #43
    2015 DDO Players Council Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    Then they wouldn't have to worry so much about saving face when forced to back down from a ridiculous position.
    .
    So, when are you going to back down from the "on all fours" position, because you have been getting rammed for several days by multiple people.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durnak View Post
    So, when are you going to back down from the "on all fours" position, because you have been getting rammed for several days by multiple people.
    Just remember guys.... there is a difference between kneeling down and bending over.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durnak View Post
    So, when are you going to back down from the "on all fours" position, because you have been getting rammed for several days by multiple people.
    He must be dense. Nobody's buying what he's selling yet he's trying to tell everyone else how great his business is doing.
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  6. #46
    Community Member ~kruemeli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcscoob View Post
    He must be dense. Nobody's buying what he's selling yet he's trying to tell everyone else how great his business is doing.
    He should offer like... a Discount coupon.
    One that lets People buy what he is selling for free.

    Only... he should code the Discount coupon so that it only reduces the Price by 1 item.
    That way... when somone tries to use the coupon to buy the "10 free per account" at once... they actually end up paying for nine of them!

    Has he learned nothing from QuartermasterX?
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  7. #47
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    A long while back a pugger pulled an sos shard and I was quick to swoop in. I offered them a ton of larges (back when they were cool), and we were both happy. I have done this many times. Especially if I see that it is a newer person that may need plat or other things more than they need the BTCA loot.

    Does this pi$$ people off? Probably. Do I care? Not at all.

    Everyone is quick to say “your loot is your loot”, but when the chips don’t fall their way they will raise hell and come here yelling about it. If people really live by “your loot is yours”, then don’t even look at what other people’s loot is.

    My name is Flabby and I play on Thelanis. I understand that this is an Argo thread, but if anyone from Thelanis is reading, they can blacklist me for all I care.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint78 View Post
    A long while back a pugger pulled an sos shard and I was quick to swoop in. I offered them a ton of larges (back when they were cool), and we were both happy. I have done this many times. Especially if I see that it is a newer person that may need plat or other things more than they need the BTCA loot.

    Does this pi$$ people off? Probably. Do I care? Not at all.

    Everyone is quick to say “your loot is your loot”, but when the chips don’t fall their way they will raise hell and come here yelling about it. If people really live by “your loot is yours”, then don’t even look at what other people’s loot is.

    My name is Flabby and I play on Thelanis. I understand that this is an Argo thread, but if anyone from Thelanis is reading, they can blacklist me for all I care.
    I don't like what you do but I like your honesty and upfrontness. If only gay satyrs can have your kind of guts.

  9. #49
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    Default not from agro server but as i see it your loot to do with what you want

    When ddo put in for those of you who havent been around since start of game the option to change loot to someone else in the party i believe they allow you to do this to help players get the items that they want by however they want to trade be it a roll or trade for a simple com or something more valuable!

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    This thread has become a major source of hilarity for me now, we should have it stickied. It's been a major source of hilarity for us too I have rarely witnessed such desperate, juvenile hysterics by people in denial being faced with facts.Funny thing to say since you are the only one not providing any facts What we are seeing here from the Argo mafia no you can't join the argo mafia, is tantamount to a screaming toddler, rubbing poo on the walls, because they can't get their own way again, something better used to describe yourself than others.

    They are utterly inconsolable, flailing around in impotent desperation, resorting to vandalism rather than conceding defeatstop describing yourself already!. With no moderator here to save them, all they have achieved is to make complete fools of themseves. Someone should save this thread and post it on the other forums, what a classic.

    *comments in red*

    Once again, you refused to reveal your identity, still choosing to hide behind anonymity rather than identifying yourself as others have done, despite the fact that many previous posters have identified himself and then stated that he has previously bought raidloot, and the fact that they did not get any "mob lynching" that you speak of.

    So what does that make you? A very ineffetive troll. Crawl back to your lair please. And no, you cannot join Trolls Lair.

  11. #51
    Community Member ~Arcscoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    This thread has become a major source of hilarity for me now, we should have it stickied. I have rarely witnessed such desperate, juvenile hysterics by people in denial being faced with facts. What we are seeing here from the Argo mafia, is tantamount to a screaming toddler, rubbing poo on the walls, because they can't get their own way.

    They are utterly inconsolable, flailing around in impotent desperation, resorting to vandalism rather than conceding defeat. With no moderator here to save them, all they have achieved is to make complete fools of themseves. Someone should save this thread and post it on the other forums, what a classic.
    Wow! The sheer density! Maybe you are just old and senile. Have you even read through this thread (which by the way, you claim to have a purpose that makes no sense)? Or have you just resorted to throwing around random fits now? Maybe your reading comprehension needs work, or maybe you need a psychiatrist. You are the only one making a fool of himself. Maybe in your head this thread is going in your favor or something. We keep this thread and you around for pure entertainment now.

    Enjoy your stay, and welcome to Argonnessen.
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  12. #52
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    To me the first and foremost rule is that your loot is your loot. But this is not a thread on how *I* react to people's loot policies. This is the one and only official DDO forum, where all types of players, including fresh new ones, might come looking for advice. I don't like when this topic comes up (it does every so often), then people just say "your loot is your loot" and leave it at that, because there are certain practices veterans know are frown upon by many players, and you don't want new players to do certain things that might buy them a one way ticket into many blacklists.

    If you are new to the game and a friend of yours wants you to roll on an item you don't need just to pass it to him/her in case you win the roll, then that person is not your friend. Rolling with the sole purpose of giving someone else an extra chance for a valuable loot piece that is being put up for roll is called "proxy rolling" and it's extremely frowned upon by many people.

    At the other side of the spectrum, nearly no one will think worse of you because you passed an item in chest for a friend or a guildie. That's what friends and guildies do. Then there's the blurry center of the whole question. Buying or selling loot might be in that blurry center. To me, your loot is your loot; if there's something I need in a chest with your name near it, I'll wait to see if you are putting the item up for roll. If you do, I'm rolling. Otherwise, it's "thanks for group; tc" and see you next run. Just bear in mind not everyone has the same policies, and if you've got a feeling something isn't right your safest bet is not doing it.

  13. #53
    Community Member ~Gaesatae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcscoob View Post
    Wow! The sheer density! Maybe you are just old and senile. Have you even read through this thread (which by the way, you claim to have a purpose that makes no sense)? Or have you just resorted to throwing around random fits now? Maybe your reading comprehension needs work, or maybe you need a psychiatrist. You are the only one making a fool of himself. Maybe in your head this thread is going in your favor or something. We keep this thread and you around for pure entertainment now.

    Enjoy your stay, and welcome to Argonnessen.
    Hehe, I think I owe you a debt of gratidude, this thread has been an absolute goldmine beyond my wildest dreams. You and your Argo mafia bronies are proving to be the gift that keeps on giving. Keep up the good work.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    Argo mafia bronies .
    lolwut?
    What is this I don't even..

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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post

    A strawman argument is the deliberate misrepresentation of the position someone has taken on an issue when attempting to challenge it. I didn't invent it, it's just the description of a very popluar logical fallacy that gets used on internet forums. My uses of the term strawman in both of these threads has been accurate.
    Yes it is one of the top 10 argument fallacies (and not just in use on internet forums I assure you) - See more than one of us has been in a logic course at some point in our lives. But it doesn't mean to simply misrepresent someone's argument. It means to create a new argument, and dispute that while ignoring the original argument. It basically means to create a straw man, and attack that instead of the original argument.

    If the only argument you are trying to prove is that trading occurs on Argo - that was agreed to, and as scoob pointed out, the bases of the original post on the other thread... so in effect unnecessary. However, people have articulated valid arguments as to why this is not the norm, while allowing that the original simplistic premise you put forth is correct. This is far from a strawman argument. They did address the original position, and even confirmed it, and have moved on to other issues, yet you seem stuck.

    While some responses have turned rather juvenile, yours have as well.

    The fact of the matter is --- yes trading does occur -- NO most guilds on argo do not approve of it. YES it happens more in pugs than in any other place.


    On a different point -- someone said that the reason trading/selling was allowed was to allow new people access to loot over the older players of the game. This does not follow logically as some of the richest players in the game are also the oldest players. Also putting loot up for roll gives fair chances for everyone regardless of time spent learning the game, the newbie is on a level field with the grizzled veteran.

    Also = someone said no one would be upset if you passed to a guildy. Not true. Many are upset at this as well.

    Finally, some of you have said your loot is your loot, and you will do as you please -- and you are open and honest with that. I respect that. I hope that you would then be just as honest in not joining groups where that is not accepted (or to behave differently in those groups if you decide to stay). If someone is willing to do that -- what they do in runs that I am not in charge of, I could care less. I will put my loot up for roll regardless of what anyone else in party does, pug or not. And I will not buy or trade loot. But to me it is a philosophical issue. I do not believe it to be fair, and thus will not participate in it. However, I do not think evil of those that do, I just don't want them in the runs that I host. I hope you can see that as fair.
    Last edited by Kitraine; 05-13-2013 at 11:38 PM.

  16. #56
    2015 DDO Players Council Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitraine View Post
    Yes it is one of the top 10 argument fallacies (and not just in use on internet forums I assure you) - See more than one of us has been in a logic course at some point in our lives. But it doesn't mean to simply misrepresent someone's argument. It means to create a new argument, and dispute that while ignoring the original argument. It basically means to create a straw man, and attack that instead of the original argument.

    If the only argument you are trying to prove is that trading occurs on Argo - that was agreed to, and as scoob pointed out, the bases of the original post on the other thread... so in effect unnecessary. However, people have articulated valid arguments as to why this is not the norm, while allowing that the original simplistic premise you put forth is correct. This is far from a strawman argument. They did address the original position, and even confirmed it, and have moved on to other issues, yet you seem stuck.

    While some responses have turned rather juvenile, yours have as well.

    The fact of the matter is --- yes trading does occur -- NO most guilds on argo do not approve of it. YES it happens more in pugs than in any other place.


    On a different point -- someone said that the reason trading/selling was allowed was to allow new people access to loot over the older players of the game. This does not follow logically as some of the richest players in the game are also the oldest players. Also putting loot up for roll gives fair chances for everyone regardless of time spent learning the game, the newbie is on a level field with the grizzled veteran.

    Also = someone said no one would be upset if you passed to a guildy. Not true. Many are upset at this as well.

    Finally, some of you have said your loot is your loot, and you will do as you please -- and you are open and honest with that. I respect that. I hope that you would then be just as honest in not joining groups where that is not accepted (or to behave differently in those groups if you decide to stay). If someone is willing to do that -- what they do in runs that I am not in charge of, I could care less. I will put my loot up for roll regardless of what anyone else in party does, pug or not. And I will not buy or trade loot. But to me it is a philosophical issue. I do not believe it to be fair, and thus will not participate in it. However, I do not think evil of those that do, I just don't wan them in the runs that I host. I hope you can see that as fair.
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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durnak View Post
    BAM!

    Is he still winning?
    think he just won.

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitraine View Post

    While some responses have turned rather juvenile,
    For the record, I thought my post in particular was well thought out, quite mature, even a bit on the conservative side. As far as these other idiots, I couldn't agree with you more Azlix.
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  19. #59
    Community Member ~Gaesatae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitraine View Post
    It means to create a new argument, and dispute that while ignoring the original argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitraine View Post
    However, people have articulated valid arguments as to why this is not the norm, while allowing that the original simplistic premise you put forth is correct.
    As stated clearly in my original post, the purpose of this thread was to verify the occurence, not whether it is the norm. Yet some posters insist on trying to change the basis of the discussion, through various logically fallacious assertions. You can keep going around in circles forever, but you simply cannot troll your way out of this.

  20. #60
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    Default Hello? Is this thing on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    As stated clearly in my original post, the purpose of this thread was to verify the occurence, not whether it is the norm. Yet some posters insist on trying to change the basis of the discussion, through various logically fallacious assertions. You can keep going around in circles forever, but you simply cannot troll your way out of this.
    Oh I am so sorry -- I was not aware that a thread could only discuss ONE issue. Maybe that is what it is like on the thread for your server, but here we can address an issue, come to a consensus and discuss more things about the issue ALL IN THE SAME THREAD. Crazy I know.

    If the only reason for your thread was to verify this -- as I stated many a post ago -- gratz. Yes... loot has been traded/sold/etc. at least once on Argo. I doubt you would have found anyone that would have denied this fact even in the original thread. So what was the point then? You say posters keep trying to change the basis of the discussion, once one person has said this happened, your discussion is over. I have no idea what else you want us to say on that. We simply moved to the next valid topic -- if it does in fact happen (which we said yes) - what is the frequency and what do people think about this. And I think people have done a nice job on both sides identifying their ideas and putting forth logical arguments. Yet you just keep posting that we aren't still talking about your original inane topic, um, no kidding... it was boring.

    Trolling ... I don't think so. We are conducting an intelligent exchange of ideas, which means the conversation will continue to evolve. If you can't handle that... move along. If you can, great! Feel free to comment on the new topics as they come up but that horse is most assuredly dead, please stop beating the poor thing.

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