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  1. #1
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    Default Stop punishing intelligent play in Coalescence Chamber

    Ok, so maybe everyone here knows about the bug in Coal Chamber if you think, "Wow if I use Dimension Door after killing the Cube, I can cut my travel time in almost half, what a great idea." Except it bugs the quest and you can't complete because you don't trigger the necessary ambush.

    Personally, I think the "challenge" in Coal Chamber is not falling off the odd ball physics or getting cross eyed going in circles. So Suggestions:

    1. Put a warning up when someone casts Dimension Door like you do in Shroud where it says "Don't release, it's all part of the fun."

    2. Recognize that you are penalizing intelligent play in a quest that is more than sufficiently frustrating as is and either:
    a. Remove the ambush entirely
    b. Make it an actual Optional, optional.

    In before the Log out.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigh_Lint View Post
    Ok, so maybe everyone here knows about the bug in Coal Chamber if you think, "Wow if I use Dimension Door after killing the Cube, I can cut my travel time in almost half, what a great idea." Except it bugs the quest and you can't complete because you don't trigger the necessary ambush.

    Personally, I think the "challenge" in Coal Chamber is not falling off the odd ball physics or getting cross eyed going in circles. So Suggestions:

    1. Put a warning up when someone casts Dimension Door like you do in Shroud where it says "Don't release, it's all part of the fun."

    2. Recognize that you are penalizing intelligent play in a quest that is more than sufficiently frustrating as is and either:
    a. Remove the ambush entirely
    b. Make it an actual Optional, optional.

    In before the Log out.
    how exactly doe it cut travel time in half? Its like 6 nor 8 trogs to kill.... It take a minute at most in a group.. maybe 2 if you are solo at level.

    You are not being punished because of intelligent play. you are being "punished" because you are bypassing a required objective of the quest. the ambush is NOT listed as an an "optional" after you kill the cube.
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  3. #3
    Community Member marciosilva's Avatar
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    Never knew of that bug... And never used a DD in that quest. And never been in a group where someone popped one either...

    But good to know
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  4. #4
    Community Member kinggartk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigh_Lint View Post
    Ok, so maybe everyone here knows about the bug in Coal Chamber if you think, "Wow if I use Dimension Door after killing the Cube, I can cut my travel time in almost half, what a great idea." Except it bugs the quest and you can't complete because you don't trigger the necessary ambush.

    Personally, I think the "challenge" in Coal Chamber is not falling off the odd ball physics or getting cross eyed going in circles. So Suggestions:

    1. Put a warning up when someone casts Dimension Door like you do in Shroud where it says "Don't release, it's all part of the fun."

    2. Recognize that you are penalizing intelligent play in a quest that is more than sufficiently frustrating as is and either:
    a. Remove the ambush entirely
    b. Make it an actual Optional, optional.

    In before the Log out.
    Don't think there is a bug...that is a required objective. What is keeping you from casting D-Door after the ambush?

  5. #5
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinggartk View Post
    Don't think there is a bug...that is a required objective. What is keeping you from casting D-Door after the ambush?
    and how does it save time? you don't run to the top you drop back down and go back to the main shaft.

  6. #6
    Community Member kinggartk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    and how does it save time? you don't run to the top you drop back down and go back to the main shaft.
    I don't know that it does save you time...I was just responding to the OP, pointing out that this happens to be one quest that is not bugged (Unless you consider the cube not being able to follow out of the room a bug).

  7. #7
    Community Member rangerluna375's Avatar
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    You tried to bypass a required objective and the quest bugged out? Imagine that.....
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  8. #8
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinggartk View Post
    I don't know that it does save you time...I was just responding to the OP, pointing out that this happens to be one quest that is not bugged (Unless you consider the cube not being able to follow out of the room a bug).
    It needs to be able to, it'd be such a happy cube to run free.

  9. #9
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Not sure I would call this a Bug...

    After you kill the the Cube (sorry Cubbie it is a quest requirement) when you make your way back to the entrance of his little cave it triggers the next requirement which is to kill the ambush (7 Trogs if memory serves me correct)

    What the OP is describing is using a DDoor back in the cave before the cave entrance, thus not triggering the ambush.

    By going back to the entrance and running to and using the "Elevator air blasts" you can bypass the 2nd Shaft completely meaning you don't run by or even near where the ambush would spawn. You can actually complete the final fight and loot the chest, but the quest will not be completed until you return to the Cube's cave and kill the Ambush.

    Now, I will agree that there is a bug if you were unable to spawn the Ambush when you returned to the cave. Did you return to the cave?

  10. #10
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    I see a lot of this on the Forums.

    OP? You're confusing "Metagaming" with "Playing Smart".

    They are not the same thing.

    Using a D-Door to skip an encounter that "You the Player" knows is about to happen, but your character wouldn't is metagaming.

    The only bug related to that encounter is that it says you must "Survive the Ambush" when in fact you must "Kill the Ambushers". If the objective was simply to "Survive the Ambush" then using D-Door after triggering the Ambush might be considered "Intelligent Play" if the encounter was hard enough, after all, if your character D-Doors out of there they have "Survived the Ambush".

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    Not sure I would call this a Bug...

    After you kill the the Cube (sorry Cubbie it is a quest requirement) when you make your way back to the entrance of his little cave it triggers the next requirement which is to kill the ambush (7 Trogs if memory serves me correct)

    What the OP is describing is using a DDoor back in the cave before the cave entrance, thus not triggering the ambush.

    By going back to the entrance and running to and using the "Elevator air blasts" you can bypass the 2nd Shaft completely meaning you don't run by or even near where the ambush would spawn. You can actually complete the final fight and loot the chest, but the quest will not be completed until you return to the Cube's cave and kill the Ambush.

    Now, I will agree that there is a bug if you were unable to spawn the Ambush when you returned to the cave. Did you return to the cave?
    Precisely this.

    I D-doored after the fight to use the elevator blasts, which does save a lot of time, especially if you have a poor sense of direction, like I do. The Ambush objective never activated or showed up in the objective list. After I finished the final fight, looted the chest, I ran all the way back to the original cave with the Cube and could not spawn the ambush objective.

    It's a bug. Or a failure of QA. Or whatever you want to call it, but you shouldn't have an entire quest be wasted because you thought you'd save some time instead of running around the darn spiral again.

  12. #12
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Did you put in a ticket? Did you put in a "In-Game Bug Report"?

    You have very repeatable steps. I know that when the Air lifts were first put in a group I was in totally skipped the Ambush only to have to return to finish them off after we were done. But we were able to complete then so it sounds like something has changed since the initial release of the jets.

    Most peoples complaints about this quest deal more with the physics where jumping at certain places "Bounces" you or where the narrow ledges cause you to lose visibility due to the outcropping of the edges.

  13. #13
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    Yes, I put in a bug report in game, not that it did any good. Even if a GM had come and spawned the ambush for me, which I'm not at all sure they could have done, I still would have been penalized by forcing me to run back through the entire quest, over the "dirt" areas that cannot be avoided to spawn additional mobs to go back and complete an objective that as a character I had no reason to suspect.

    I don't think my suggestions are out of line, but apparently some do. Whatever.

  14. #14
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    I think its bad design. Quest designers wanted an ambush (great design that I'm all for), while they knew that at any possibility you can ddoor for whatever reason (or even solo teleport out for sp then re-enter). If the design is so that you can bypass said ambush then its a design fault.

    Simple solution would be to have 2 ambushes, normal one and one at 1st room. Make it simple to code and have both always active with only 1 required for completion.

    Was this bypassable due to the air lifts or has it always been that way?

  15. #15
    Community Member Bogenbroom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigh_Lint View Post
    Precisely this.

    I D-doored after the fight to use the elevator blasts, which does save a lot of time, especially if you have a poor sense of direction, like I do. The Ambush objective never activated or showed up in the objective list. After I finished the final fight, looted the chest, I ran all the way back to the original cave with the Cube and could not spawn the ambush objective.

    It's a bug. Or a failure of QA. Or whatever you want to call it, but you shouldn't have an entire quest be wasted because you thought you'd save some time instead of running around the darn spiral again.
    That isn't a bug, per se. Everything is working as designed. The design is just a little funky. From a general quest design perspective there are loads of quests that have encounter requirement not related to the end battle, it is just that, in this particular case, the encounter in question is not particularly special and easily avoidable... making it sort of unusual.

    It should be noted, though, that the air jets were added to that quest several years after release. When the quest was originally designed, using a D-Door after killing the cube would have been downright foolish. This is the sort of thing that will happen when quests get tweaked.

    It would be great, though, if they could modify that encounter to happen at a different point if it isn't triggered outside the cube cave. Say, for example, trigger it behind the party after entering the end fight door. Make it easier to deal with in its original spot, but still completable if that encounter is avoided.

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  16. #16
    Community Member Cyndrome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigh_Lint View Post
    2. Recognize that you are penalizing intelligent play in a quest that is more than sufficiently frustrating as is and either:
    a. Remove the ambush entirely
    b. Make it an actual Optional, optional.
    Lol - sounds like someone ddoored without thinking it through. I don't mind the ambush mechanic, though I do not think it should be a required quest objective. It simply does not make any sense that all of the trogs in this one part of the quest have to die before you can advance.

    The devs need to think seriously about all of the mechanics that require that a certain number of mobs need to be killed. In my last TR I had quests stall 3 times because of stuff getting caught in the walls or in unreachable parts of the quest. I had that happen once in the ambush.

  17. #17
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigh_Lint View Post
    Yes, I put in a bug report in game, not that it did any good. Even if a GM had come and spawned the ambush for me, which I'm not at all sure they could have done, I still would have been penalized by forcing me to run back through the entire quest, over the "dirt" areas that cannot be avoided to spawn additional mobs to go back and complete an objective that as a character I had no reason to suspect.
    You can avoid spawning the scorpion and bats. They make a listen check to know if they should pop out or not. So, sneak over the dirt paths. If you are not using a tower shield and switch up a +ms item, you can bypass it every time with any character.
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