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  1. #21
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    They do on my server, so what you've said here is obviously utter nonsense or wishful thinking. On your server it might be different, but I seriously doubt it, policing and enforcing it would be a full-time job.
    Then go back to your server. This doesn't happen here, in ARGONESSEN where we don't give a **** about what happens on the other servers. You might want to check where you are posting again. Lol, thanks for the laugh thou.

    It's not me with utter nonsense and wishful thinking. It's you that are making generalizations. "My server's large guilds sell raid loot so, of course, even on your server they do so". Please


    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    We aren't allowed to name players or guilds on the forums, you should know that. Suffice to say, I've witnessed it countless times, so if you want to call me a liar on an internet forum, there's nothing more to be said.
    Again, it's on your server and this is Argonessen. Now that I know that you are not even from our server, I really couldn't care less what players or guilds do that on your server.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    No matter how many artificial rules you put in place, if there's an advantage to be had by going around them, directly to the source then someone will do it and get ahead in doing so, just as in the real world.
    You have a problem, I see. Let me state again what Kanttura just said: this is not real world. And this is not your server.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    We both know that's not allowed. Why do you want to know that anyway? So you can try to gang up and bully them for wanting to enjoy the freedom of disposing of THEIR loot as THEY see fit?
    Actually, I was fishing for this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    They do on my server
    Because I thought I'd seen you wrote you were from some other server, but couldn't find it again. (dunno if it's because of an edited post or a misread on my part. [Edit]Definitely a misread[/edit]) Point is, you're not raiding on Argonnessen, anyway. That means your opinion & your experiences are not related to this discussion in the slightest ways.

    I don't care how other servers don't do it. If I did, I'd have made the thread to general. I only care about how my little corner of DDO does it, and that's why the thread is here on argo's forums.
    Last edited by Kanttura; 05-06-2013 at 07:28 AM. Reason: Me Am SMRT!
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  3. #23
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    His loot may be his loot, but that doesn't mean he can expect to be in parties I set up. Or for me to join parties that he's already in. Just saying.

  4. #24
    Community Member ~Gaesatae's Avatar
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    double post
    Last edited by Gaesatae; 05-06-2013 at 07:51 AM.

  5. #25
    Community Member ~Gaesatae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Then go back to your server. This doesn't happen here, in ARGONESSEN where we don't give a **** about what happens on the other servers. You might want to check where you are posting again. Lol, thanks for the laugh thou.
    Well it obviously does happen there, otherwise this thread wouldn't have been started, would it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    It's not me with utter nonsense and wishful thinking. It's you that are making generalizations. "My server's large guilds sell raid loot so, of course, even on your server they do so". Please
    Complete strawman argument, what's the likelyhood that it happens on one server and not another? All I have to do then is find one example to completely invalidate your argument. Oh look, there's one right there in the first post of this thread, I didn't have to look very far did I?


    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Again, it's on your server and this is Argonessen. Now that I know that you are not even from our server, I really couldn't care less what players or guilds do that on your server.
    Looks like that strawman is all you had, well what do you have to say now that it's been refuted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    You have a problem, I see. Let me state again what Kanttura just said: this is not real world. And this is not your server.
    The only problem is your failure to comprehend and accept reality. Sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting 'LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU' won't make that reality go away. You obviously do have a problem on YOUR server, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist. The next step for me will be to start a new thread to gather specific examples of this happening on YOUR server. I know it has happened on your server, just as much as it has on the other servers. I guarantee it.

    Pretending otherwise for the sake of arguing with me in this thread is just an excercise in burying your head in the sand. As far as the real world not being DDO goes, that is just a ridiculously juvenile position to take in this discussion, we have to have some point of reference for comparison. The only thing that we have, that we can all agree on, is the real world. Anything else is just a figment of your imagination.

    It looks as though the productive lifespan of this debate has reached it's conclusion, with you and the other advocates of YOUR loot is MY loot, retreating into obstinacy and denial. Maybe we can talk again when you have come to grips with the reality of human nature. Please don't take anything I've said here as a personal attack or insult, I am merely describing the facts, I didn't make them so.
    Last edited by Gaesatae; 05-06-2013 at 07:51 AM.

  6. #26
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    Well it obviously does happen there, otherwise this thread wouldn't have been started, would it?

    Complete strawman argument, what's the likelyhood that it happens on one server and not another? All I have to do then is find one example to completely invalidate your argument. Oh look, there's one right there in the first post of this thread, I didn't have to look very far did I?

    Looks like that strawman is all you had, well what do you have to say now that it's been refuted?
    Looks like you can't read, so I'll quote again what I was answering you to:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Larger guilds never sell raid loot. Give us examples instead of spreading false informations with no basis.
    The OP is talking about Pugs guildless or in small guilds doing so. So, I'll re-state again my reply, in a better and clearer way so you can actually comprehend what I'm writing:

    Give us example of larger guilds doing so (selling raid loot) and you will have a point. Oh wait, you can't. You are not from Argonessen.

    kkthxbye.
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  7. #27

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    Here on Argo, I've never seen anyone from a large endgame guild try to buy or sell raid loot. Not saying it doesn't happen. I've just never seen it.

    I have, however, seen endgame guilds pass loot, trade loot in the chest and give loot because they "owe" the other player something from previously. Some of these practices are considered acceptable by the community and some are not, but these things most definitely have occurred in higher guilds. I'm not certain if these sorts of things are considered "buying or selling" by definition of the OP. I suppose it's a bit subjective.

  8. #28
    Community Member ~Gaesatae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanttura View Post
    Actually, I was fishing for this:



    Because I thought I'd seen you wrote you were from some other server, but couldn't find it again. (dunno if it's because of an edited post or a misread on my part. [Edit]Definitely a misread[/edit]) Point is, you're not raiding on Argonnessen, anyway. That means your opinion & your experiences are not related to this discussion in the slightest ways.

    I don't care how other servers don't do it. If I did, I'd have made the thread to general. I only care about how my little corner of DDO does it, and that's why the thread is here on argo's forums.
    By saying they don't on my server, I was making an example of my personal experience. It had nothing to do with isolating any particular server. You don't know which server I play on, it doesn't matter as it's completely irrelevant to this discussion.

    If you want to try to make it relevant, I will start another thread where I assure you I will find at least one example(if the example in the OP isn't enough), which will utterly refute your position. In fact you can just assume that I have already done that and save us both the time and energy.

    My point is that your server isn't any different from any other server and it's fallacious to make that implication.
    Last edited by Gaesatae; 05-06-2013 at 08:06 AM.

  9. #29
    Community Member ~Gaesatae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Looks like you can't read, so I'll quote again what I was answering you to:



    The OP is talking about Pugs guildless or in small guilds doing so. So, I'll re-state again my reply, in a better and clearer way so you can actually comprehend what I'm writing:

    Give us example of larger guilds doing so (selling raid loot) and you will have a point. Oh wait, you can't. You are not from Argonessen.

    kkthxbye.
    The original post says nothing specific about who is doing the buying and selling. The fact that the original poster is actively contradicting what he complained about in his original post is enough to invalidate your collective postion.

    Now do you require me to find a second example of raid loot selling, or shall we just leave it at that?

  10. #30
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    The original post says nothing specific about who is doing the buying and selling. The fact that the original poster is actively contradicting what he complained about in his original post is enough to invalidate your collective postion.

    Now do you require me to find a second example of raid loot selling, or shall we just leave it at that?
    It's because you are not from this server. I know exactly what he is talking about, the persons, the raids where that happened and the items that were sold.

    Now, after having made my point of you not belonging to this thread because it's all about Argonessen and you obviously have no clue of what's going on, I'll go play a bit and squelch people selling raid loot. Bye




    Oh, and I got my Twilight Green. So die!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

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  11. #31
    Community Member ~Gaesatae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    It's because you are not from this server.
    Yes, actually I am. No, you may not know my toons. Now what?

  12. #32
    Community Member Kilbar's Avatar
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    This is how I handle loot I don't want.

    First I ask if anyone wants it. If after a minute no one has answered, I loot and be about my day.

    Second, if one person responds, I ask again to double-check.

    Third, if someone chimes in, the item goes up for roll.

    Fourth, if no one replies to number two, I pass it directly to whoever wanted it.

    This is all done in party chat.

    Any objections?

  13. #33
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    . You will find many of the 'uber' players and vets participate in this practice ruthlessly.

    This is just good old capitalism.
    Hi, I just so happen to be very uber.

    And as a very uber player, the only practice that I participate ruthlessly in is being uber.

    Thank you
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  14. #34
    Community Member ~Gaesatae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durnak View Post
    Hi, I just so happen to be very uber.

    And as a very uber player, the only practice that I participate ruthlessly in is being uber.

    Thank you
    Can you teach me to be uber too?

    I heard that solo'ing some of the easiest, most linear epics in the game on a melee using Master's Blitz is a good start.

    Just kidding, couldn't resist. I think I enjoy and agree with most of your posts.

  15. #35
    Community Member ~Arcscoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    By saying they don't on my server, I was making an example of my personal experience. It had nothing to do with isolating any particular server. You don't know which server I play on, it doesn't matter as it's completely irrelevant to this discussion.

    If you want to try to make it relevant, I will start another thread where I assure you I will find at least one example(if the example in the OP isn't enough), which will utterly refute your position. In fact you can just assume that I have already done that and save us both the time and energy.

    My point is that your server isn't any different from any other server and it's fallacious to make that implication.
    You clearly don't know anything about this server (in which the OP was posted) and the only fallacy here is you assuming Argo is like any or every other server when it isn't.

    Pretty much every endgame player here knows all of the endgame guilds and collectively every endgame guild also is aware of almost all of the endgame players. This is the nature of Argo's tight knit endgame community and this is why we are all telling you the same thing: that we basically guarantee nothing of this sort is happening among our endgame players, über players, and big endgame guilds.

    Thanks for visiting Argo.
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  16. #36
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    Can you teach me to be uber too?

    I heard that solo'ing some of the easiest, most linear epics in the game on a melee using Master's Blitz is a good start.

    Just kidding, couldn't resist. I think I enjoy and agree with most of your posts.
    Thanks

    But in all seriousness, what is your point here? A quick look at your posts suggests that you are of the opinion that end-game "uber" players participate in loot systems that are predominantly advantageous for themselves and their grouping circles; all the while putting other, newer pugs that may be around in a less optimal position to acquire the same gear.

    If this is correct, then that is most emphatically not the situation I experience within the end-game social sphere. We distribute loot in a very fair and straightforward manner (of course there are folks that slip up and then get lambasted for it - I realize that we don't live in a bubble). Most transactions take place under a strict "loot it or put up for roll" policy. No in betweens, and that has worked remarkably well for both a) eventual acquisition of gear and b) avoidance of potential drama
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  17. #37
    Community Member ~Gaesatae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durnak View Post
    Thanks

    But in all seriousness, what is your point here? A quick look at your posts suggests that you are of the opinion that end-game "uber" players participate in loot systems that are predominantly advantageous for themselves and their grouping circles; all the while putting other, newer pugs that may be around in a less optimal position to acquire the same gear.

    If this is correct, then that is most emphatically not the situation I experience within the end-game social sphere. We distribute loot in a very fair and straightforward manner (of course there are folks that slip up and then get lambasted for it - I realize that we don't live in a bubble). Most transactions take place under a strict "loot it or put up for roll" policy. No in betweens, and that has worked remarkably well for both a) eventual acquisition of gear and b) avoidance of potential drama
    I don't really have anything further to add to this thread, other than to say I have BY FAR given away more bound loot than I have ever bought. I think I have only sold loot two or three times when I was PM'd by obviously desperate people, putting for roll is 99% my default action.

    On the rare occasions where I make offers on rare loot, they are always extremely generous. I PUG a lot as I enjoy the chaos, it keeps me on my toes, but having played for a long time and being reasonable wealthy, there is very little that I need for myself and people who run with me will certainly find me one of the more generous players when it comes to disposing of loot.

    I have certainly helped more than my fair share of PUG'ers, easily more than most uber/large guild/exclusive types. But when I want something NOW, which isn't very often, I WILL send a tell.

  18. #38
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    I don't really have anything further to add to this thread, other than to say I have BY FAR given away more bound loot than I have ever bought. I think I have only sold loot two or three times when I was PM'd by obviously desperate people, putting for roll is 99% my default action.

    On the rare occasions where I make offers on rare loot, they are always extremely generous. I PUG a lot as I enjoy the chaos, it keeps me on my toes, but having played for a long time and being reasonable wealthy, there is very little that I need for myself and people who run with me will certainly find me one of the more generous players when it comes to disposing of loot.

    I have certainly helped more than my fair share of PUG'ers, easily more than most uber/large guild/exclusive types. But when I want something NOW, which isn't very often, I WILL send a tell.
    According to an earlier post of yours, you claimed that its fallacious to assume that different servers subscribe to different loot policies. Yet, here you are on a different server, talking from the vantage point of a wealthy end-game player subscribing to the passage of raid loot.

    My experience on argo firmly grounds itself in the opposite scenario. Suggesting that servers indeed ARE different in their handling of loot - at least in the end-game social circles.

    Whether you are generous, good-hearted, or just trying to help newer folks or not, is completely irrelevant here. Your generosity toward an individual is nullified by the disservice you are doing to the rest of the party by making an under the table deal with a chosen party member.

    Personally, along with most fellow argo players, I recognize that that tablecloth or skybreaker sitting in the chest was made possible due to the collective effort of the entire group. Therefore, it is frowned upon to pass away an item that you do not want to a person of your choice. Picking favorites leads to drama, and places a question mark on your acceptance into the same groups in the future.
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  19. #39
    Community Member HotMaarl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaesatae View Post
    I don't really have anything further to add to this thread, other than to say I have BY FAR given away more bound loot than I have ever bought. I think I have only sold loot two or three times when I was PM'd by obviously desperate people, putting for roll is 99% my default action.

    On the rare occasions where I make offers on rare loot, they are always extremely generous. I PUG a lot as I enjoy the chaos, it keeps me on my toes, but having played for a long time and being reasonable wealthy, there is very little that I need for myself and people who run with me will certainly find me one of the more generous players when it comes to disposing of loot.

    I have certainly helped more than my fair share of PUG'ers, easily more than most uber/large guild/exclusive types. But when I want something NOW, which isn't very often, I WILL send a tell.
    You have one more thing to add please. Who are you? Would you mind listing us your characters?

  20. #40
    Community Member ~Gaesatae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durnak View Post
    According to an earlier post of yours, you claimed that its fallacious to assume that different servers subscribe to different loot policies. Yet, here you are on a different server, talking from the vantage point of a wealthy end-game player subscribing to the passage of raid loot.
    Maybe the handful of channel people in the rarified circles in which you run, have their own private policy, but that is not the majority of endgame/large guilds of uber/veteran players. I have already refuted your other assertion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnak View Post
    My experience on argo firmly grounds itself in the opposite scenario. Suggesting that servers indeed ARE different in their handling of loot - at least in the end-game social circles.
    Endgame can be an ambiguous definition that can cover a wide spectrum of players. Are you suggesting that you are privy to the practices of them all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnak View Post
    Whether you are generous, good-hearted, or just trying to help newer folks or not, is completely irrelevant here. Your generosity toward an individual is nullified by the disservice you are doing to the rest of the party by making an under the table deal with a chosen party member.
    I have put forward my perspective, the last post was just a bone to the naysayers. I completely disagree with your position on this issue. We can go into it further if you want, but I think I've covered it already. I don't owe those players anything, any more than they owe me. They got their fair chance at loot when they opened the chest, like everyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnak View Post
    Personally, along with most fellow argo players, I recognize that that tablecloth or skybreaker sitting in the chest was made possible due to the collective effort of the entire group. Therefore, it is frowned upon to pass away an item that you do not want to a person of your choice. Picking favorites leads to drama, and places a question mark on your acceptance into the same groups in the future.
    That's fine, in your chosen circle of players. I don't really know how endgame or uber you or the other posters here fancy themselves, but to say you speak for a significant cross-section of the playerbase, IS disingenuous because you really don't know what goes in every group. This is something people try to hide, not flaunt publicly, for precisely the attitudes displayed in this thread.

    One thing I do notice though, it's often the most relatively well connected players who complain about a practice which has very little impact on them, but which may get a less well connected player a foot in the door. I can argue about this forever, ultimately there is no right or wrong. I will say that almost every rational analog favours my interpretation.

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