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  1. #1
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    Default Attention, all Ye noobs, newbs & newbies: A moment of your time, please...

    Some questions for anyone who would consider yourself a new or inexperienced/still learning player:

    Do you start your own lfms? Why/why not?

    What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why?

    Do you consider entering a quest you've never done before daunting? Or is it exciting?

    Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why?

    I often see (and admittedly take part in) debates on these very issues, where we "veterans" tend to make many assumptions on your behalf regarding what you do or do not like/want/need in an lfm. We point fingers and occasionally call eachother names all for the purpose of defining what would be best for you to take part in or avoid.

    So I thought I'ld try asking all y'all directly.
    While I wish I could promise no one will come here and say something callous or derogatory in response to anything you have to say on the matter, the simple truth is I can't. However, I can be fairly certain that should someone do so, you'll likely get the satisfaction of seeing someone else tell 'em where to stick the unneeded/unhelpful commentary

    So please, sound off and tell us "vets" what you new folk actually are: looking for, thinking about and wanting to find when it comes to lfms in general & new (to you) quests in particular.

    Thanx in advance
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  2. #2
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    Nice post, and I commend you for the way you wrote it, but I'm afraid you're going to run into the same problem people always run into when asking these sorts of questions.

    The people you are addressing do not visit the Forums.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    Nice post... The people you are addressing do not visit the Forums.
    Thanx

    Indeed, I did consider my target audience may only have a small fraction of representatives hanging around, especially given our forums aren't currently user friendly when it comes to posting/replying

    That said, I figured it never hurts to ask...
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  4. #4
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    FWIW, I'm not really "new", but I only play occasionally and have no high level characters. My answers: I basically always solo because I often find people a little overwhelming to deal with. So if I'm playing to relax and spin down, I'm probably not grouping...
    Yes, that seebs.
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  5. #5
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    Again, not really new, but I would have to say that I made the mistake of reading the forums fairly early on in my DDO experience. It totally put me off grouping with the constant complaining about what this noob/newb did or what that one didn't do that he should have or how you can't be in my groups unless you have X thingy or Y whatsit. I did not want to lay myself open to abuse for not knowing something or not having something or making a mistake. So now I mostly group with people in the guild or solo with a hire. I think the last time I grouped with strangers was at Mabar in the slayer area and the enforced grouping for the dragon instances.

    I do look at the grouping panel every time I am on. I look to see if there are any quests that I want to do with the character that I have on. If there are, then I look at the levels of the people already joined - I would rather be towards the higher end of the range than at the bottom. Then I look at the comments. If it says IP, or elite for BB, or BYOH or Know it, or solo this that or the other, then I look elsewhere. The reason being that to me that sort of comment seems unfriendly and indicative of a group that has a specific way they want to play and don't want someone who might spoil it for them.

    I have only once put up my own LFM and that was at Mabar with a 'come and go as you please' message. I am not a leader. I don't know enough about the quests to be a leader and tell people what they should do or where to go. I could put up an LFM that says 'need guide' but again, forum experience has put me off doing that too.

    I don't think I have ever seen an LFM that has as its comment 'beginners welcome', or 'come learn this quest' or 'none of us have done this, lets explore'. Those are the sort of LFMs that I would join.

    AJ

  6. #6
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    Was there not a day when OP could be considered a noob? Does OP not remember or does OP willfully forget?

    Ask yourself.

    Furthermore, before excluding others, ask yourself if it's out of necessity or luxury.

  7. #7
    Community Member xXbikergirlXx's Avatar
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    Default newb thoughts

    Started playing last November, I play solo most of time(probably 95%+) because I find it very difficult to keep up in groups and therefore start to panic and forget to keep my health up leading to death!! I have 4 toons presently at lvl21, lvl16, lvl8 and lvl3. I really want to join groups but due to a couple of very negative experiences very rarely do. I have started the last two toons with the intention to brave it out and join some groups but I think my mistake may be always trying something new....i.e Cleric, Paladin, Fighter and Wizard....so although I now know the low lvl quests really well, each time I am learning new playing styles. On the bright side my knowledge of Hires is excellent!! Never done a raid....maybe one day. I like to take things slow and poke my nose into every nook and cranny this doesn't seem to fit most Lfm's and I don't understand the mechanics of setting up my own groups due to never having done it.....I have gone through the motions several times but always chicken out before that final click to post. Sounds a bit sad I know but I have to add I really enjoy playing DDO and I will continue to play even if it is only solo
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  8. #8
    Community Member TheNameIwasntB4's Avatar
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    Default My .02 worth, agreed the forums only have around 3% participation

    Participation was higher, but the new forums caused some players to quit coming to the new forums due to bugginess. I assume the rate will increase over time, if the player base stays as it is or increases.
    -------------------

    Do you start your own lfms? Why/why not?

    I remember being a new player. I never started one LFM as I had no clue on the game.
    I soloed all quests or I was blind invited(since I was a cleric). When I was blind invited I explained I
    was new to the game, 90% of the people were nice when I did this. From me not
    posting LFMs, learning to do a quest my way, I became a soloist.

    ---------------------------

    What sort of lfms do you look to join or avoid & why?

    I don't post LFMs because I cannot stand waiting to fill. If I am on to play, I want to play. Not stand around.
    If I am standing around, I can logoff. I have posted on the forums that I will be running a particular crappy(in my mind)
    quest, and at a certain time, I will put up an LFM so people can save their time by me running the quest and then
    completing it after they enter. I also only leave the LFM up for 5 minutes at most when I do this.

    I will join LFMs on quests that a) I need for favor, I never join a quest for XP b) I know I have a hard time soloing the quest and it will be faster in a group c) quests I don't like to run but
    if some other zany person is willing to run it and I am in the mood to goof around I just might be able to get the quest completed and get favor out of it. Faithful Departed comes to mind.

    ---------------------------

    Do you consider entering a quest you've never done before daunting? Or is it exciting?

    Exciting. But a quest I have never done before, I usually like to do solo so I can figure it out and know what
    is ahead. My first time I go SLOW. I do the entire thing. All nooks and crannies. A new quest I give my myself a three hour limit.
    Once I am comfortable in that I know it I might join someone else's LFM when on other servers that are not my main server.
    Still, I won't put up one LFM for high level quests as I would rather solo and not wait for people to join.

    ---------------------------

    Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why?

    Figure it out on my own. In the past, I have joined LFMs and no one knew anything. Then you would have party wipes and people would drop. So it was a waste of time. Once I have my way I am always
    willing to learn other knowledgable people's way on how to do a quest.

    ---------------------------

    I often see (and admittedly take part in) debates on these very issues, where we "veterans" tend to make many assumptions on your behalf regarding what you do or do not like/want/need in an lfm.
    We point fingers and occasionally call eachother names all for the purpose of defining what would be best for you to take part in or avoid.

    I don't take part in the name calling. What is the point of that? My ego is not so fragile that I worry about that. I play my way and others play their way. I understand that and if my way is slower
    as compared to others way, so be it.
    April 2013 - Manager Meeting - New Forums, WOW!! We just had over 90% new players join!!

  9. #9
    Community Member xXbikergirlXx's Avatar
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    Default Bit I Forgot

    Obviously as previously stated I play Solo but I love entering new quests and would always want to try on my own first. Quests that require extra players I take the requisite number of hires. I am not ashamed to admit with my higher lvl toons I often check the wiki to assess what might be ahead although I must say that can be detrimental as often things sound harder than they actually are!! No-one likes making a fool of themselves......but I think my report card might read 'Doesn't mix easily, should try harder'!!
    Never underestimate the power of Chocolate!
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderstryk View Post
    Was there not a day when OP could be considered a noob? Does OP not remember or does OP willfully forget?

    Ask yourself.
    OP (that's me!) was absolutely a noob. Not a newb, a NOOB. 2 months after the game went f2p, I joined. This is my first mmo even. My first toon was a rogue. Had this been pen & paper D&D, it would've been an outstanding rogue. As it turns out, there are some key differences between this game and p&p. Lol although I must say, Juduss (the rogue) certainly stood out. I blew an amazing # of trap boxes in that first life. Who knew Korthos gear was insufficient for Gweylands stand? Everyone else in the party, as it turned out. Rogues get so many skill points, why bother investing much in intelligence? Because the folks who are looking for a rogue to run Xorian Cypher expect you to get the int runes... And get REALLY cranky when you blow a box or 5 on those chests.

    Yes, once upon a time, I too was a noob.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderstryk View Post
    Furthermore, before excluding others, ask yourself if it's out of necessity or luxury.
    What about my op leads you to believe I'm exclusionary?
    However yes, I have put up "exclusionary" lfms. I don't always, but sometimes I do. It's never of necessity, always for luxury. Sometimes I come home from work, and having had a long day, just want to chillax and knock out a few quick levels on my TR. So I check the patron tab, see what quests I have left to do at that level, make a list and put up an IP lfm. If I'm on a fighter, rogue, wiz etc life I often list it as "maybe byoh." I'm bringing my own, don't have the resources to play party healer, and don't feel like waiting for one. If someone joins who does feel like playing party healer, I adjust the lfm accordingly. When I'm on a cleric, favored soul or even a bard life, I don't list as byoh. If I can heal a party, I do. My main TR project ATM is named "Myhealer." I am on a favored soul life -on Thelanis- and you will not see me post a byoh lfm this life, or the next two fs lives for that matter. And btw, my final life will be cleric, and I pug almost exclusively in spite of belonging to a 92 level guild and being in a couple good channels. Just before making this post, the last quest I ran was Gwaylands Stand. It was listed as ip because I don't like waiting for groups to fill. I received a tell asking me what "IP" meant. I replied with the definition, and then sent an invite.

    So now you hopefully know all you need to about who is posting this questionnaire. As to why I posted it, well I'm genuinely curious. After the above mentioned "oops" moments, I took it upon myself to learn the game. I noticed quickly that "need guide" lfms took for ever to fill, so I simply posted lfms with no commentary. I was not a leader. When people joined I said straight away that I was new to the quest and learning as I went. Some people stayed, others left. In the past few years, my knowledge of the game has of course grown. Yet here in the forums I have often participated in discussions about various kinds of lfms, and who I thought should or should not join them. The most recent being the "wiz-king: solo a tower" thread. A variety of statements made there, all made by "vets"(as far as I know, anyway) got me to wondering what the new players' actual opinions are...

    So I'm asking.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  11. #11
    Community Member xXbikergirlXx's Avatar
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    Default Solo Wiz-king

    I have solo-ed Wiz-king(well with one hire) on heroic normal and hard but I could not do it on epic at level(have read wiz-king thread) and would not even consider joining a lfm that said 'solo a tower' . My lvl21 cleric can heal with the best of them but because I run on my own, my normal(for me) spell selection would probably not suit a group looking for a 'proper' healer as I carry a lot of offensive spells thus reducing mass buffs etc. Therefore to participate in high level groups I would require advice on which spells to carry and I have found that because I'm lvl21 people think this is something I should already know and lose patience easily. Also something not mentioned so far is abreviations, I often look at lfm's and think well if I don't know what it means it's probably not for me! Same with the forums I am still learning the DDO lingo and I am always grateful when some-one puts the full meaning in brackets. Should probably mention this is also my first venture into online gaming and that I am definitely old enough to know better!! 'Bikergirl' is infact a distant memory!!
    Never underestimate the power of Chocolate!
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by auntjobiska View Post
    I would have to say that I made the mistake of reading the forums fairly early on in my DDO experience. It totally put me off grouping...I did not want to lay myself open to abuse for not knowing something or not having something or making a mistake.
    I find this both unfortunate and quite understandable. It can get quite rough landing in the "wrong" party (which is in it's self a subjective term relative to each individual).
    Quote Originally Posted by auntjobiska View Post
    If it says IP, or elite for BB, or BYOH or Know it, or solo this that or the other, then I look elsewhere. The reason being that to me that sort of comment seems unfriendly and indicative of a group that has a specific way they want to play and don't want someone who might spoil it for them.
    I can see why for everything from byoh and the rest after that, but I'm kind of surprised that even IP or elite for BB is a turn off. I don't mention the BB in my lfms, I just set the level range accordingly. However I do occasionally get newer players joining IP lfms, who then ask where the quest is. While I freely admit (here in the forums - not in party chat) I get annoyed by it, I just tell them where it is, toss out a share, and tell them how far in I am. It honestly never occurred to me that IP could be as off putting as byoh, know it, etc...
    Quote Originally Posted by auntjobiska View Post
    I don't think I have ever seen an LFM that has as its comment 'beginners welcome', or 'come learn this quest' or 'none of us have done this, lets explore'. Those are the sort of LFMs that I would join.
    Mind if I ask; as these are the kind of lfms you would like to join, why are you not starting some with those very comments? I'm not condemning, just curious
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXbikergirlXx View Post
    Started playing last November
    Welcome!
    Quote Originally Posted by xXbikergirlXx View Post
    I really want to join groups but due to a couple of very negative experiences very rarely do.
    Please don't let a few jerks drive you out of pugging. My best suggestion would be to immediately upon joining, start chatting up whoever's already there. If they sound like a bunch of AHoles, then no explanation needed just leave group. On the other hand, if they just sound like they're planning to blast through a quest that they all know, say something like "sorry, this doesn't sound like the group for me." If they'll ask why before you drop out, you can tell them (for example) "sounds like you guys want a more experienced (wiz/cleric/whatever)." If they're open to helping a new player they'll say so, if not then everyone will be happier that you recognized this and chose to move on. Many "vets" I know are more than happy to help a new player in a lot of ways... If they know ahead of time the person in question is a new player.
    With the circles I usually run in, if we get a new rogue for instance, when one of us gets a good search or disable item, we'll say "hay biker, can you use this?" Or if they're just new to the quest then we know to tell them what we want or expect them to do/not do. If I don't know there's a new player in the party, I'll conduct myself & my group as though everyone knows what's going on.
    What frustrates me is when a new player joins, says nothing about being new, and promptly runs off somewhere and dies, or worse drags unanticipated agro from wherever they went back to the party. It's hard to help a new player when you don't know they're new until it's too late.

    Lastly, since you've tinkered with the lfm panel, and like to solo with a hire anyway, I would like to suggest you try the "IP" approach to lfm listing. Step into the quest, pop out the hire & do your thing. If someone joins, just be honest. "Hey, I'm new & just checking out everything as I go. Please don't Zerg ahead, I'm taking it slow to figure it out." 9/10 times they either join you in the "flower sniffing" or drop group immediately, glad you gave them the heads up. On that last 1/10, they'll come in anyway and "do you the favor" of finishing the quest lickity-split. Those are the people who really need you to know how awesome they are, but in my experience they're the exception rather than the rule
    I suggest this because while I do solo from time to time(some quests I just prefer to solo) I came to the mmo environment so I could have social interaction while playing a game I enjoy. Since that's what I like, I assume at least some other people do too. If that's not you, feel free to ignore this advice
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 05-05-2013 at 08:20 AM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post

    Mind if I ask; as these are the kind of lfms you would like to join, why are you not starting some with those very comments? I'm not condemning, just curious
    You are right, I should try it, but it is a daunting prospect.

    AJ

  15. #15
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    Back when I was a new player, I made it a point of emphasis to always run "new" (to me) quests solo in order to learn them. I've only ever learned raids from others. (Except ADQ, which I learned solo.)

    To this day the quests I know the least well are the ones that tend to not be soloed. (Xorian Cipher, that necro1 quest with the 4 plates, etc...) because I don't learn anything by running behind people.

    Sort of like how if I drive somewhere I'll remember the way, but if I'm a passenger I'm unlikely to remember.

  16. #16
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by auntjobiska View Post
    Again, not really new, but I would have to say that I made the mistake of reading the forums fairly early on in my DDO experience. It totally put me off grouping with the constant complaining about what this noob/newb did or what that one didn't do that he should have or how you can't be in my groups unless you have X thingy or Y whatsit. I did not want to lay myself open to abuse for not knowing something or not having something or making a mistake. So now I mostly group with people in the guild or solo with a hire. I think the last time I grouped with strangers was at Mabar in the slayer area and the enforced grouping for the dragon instances.

    I do look at the grouping panel every time I am on. I look to see if there are any quests that I want to do with the character that I have on. If there are, then I look at the levels of the people already joined - I would rather be towards the higher end of the range than at the bottom. Then I look at the comments. If it says IP, or elite for BB, or BYOH or Know it, or solo this that or the other, then I look elsewhere. The reason being that to me that sort of comment seems unfriendly and indicative of a group that has a specific way they want to play and don't want someone who might spoil it for them.

    I have only once put up my own LFM and that was at Mabar with a 'come and go as you please' message. I am not a leader. I don't know enough about the quests to be a leader and tell people what they should do or where to go. I could put up an LFM that says 'need guide' but again, forum experience has put me off doing that too.

    I don't think I have ever seen an LFM that has as its comment 'beginners welcome', or 'come learn this quest' or 'none of us have done this, lets explore'. Those are the sort of LFMs that I would join.

    AJ
    Sad...
    All I can say is that not all PUGs are like that.

    Usually you can tell something of the leader's attitude from the LFM comments... but even if th ecomments are unfriendly, some leaders are more friendly inside the dungeon. (although I say do not join those with unwelcoming comments out of principle.)

    Other LFMs are kinda a gamble, but most groups are ok....

    I would say a rough 50% are great experiences.
    An overlapping 70% are quietly and go quickly with little chit chat.

    Only a small percentage are actually bad... (but depends on your own tolerance level)





    On a side note: kinda ironic that I am such a proponent of welcoming tolerant LFMs, yet I get frequently annoyed by other players.... just not by noobs. I get annoyed by those who pretend to know something... but are "needy" or blame others or lack of others...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  17. #17
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    I can see why for everything from byoh and the rest after that, but I'm kind of surprised that even IP or elite for BB is a turn off.
    IP is a turn off because you never know if you are eating -80% or not.

    Once I saw a 35-minute IP Pit. Since I was looking for the favor, I joined up willying to eat up an 80% XP penalty (20% of a long quest done quickly is still good XP). Then I enter, and they are struggling on the FIRST furnace, trying to climb up to the valve. I did the usual (asked if everyone is new to the quest, if they want me to lead and teach about it, etc), and finished with an 1-hour quest timer.

    On the other hand, I joined a 10-minute normal pit, and thougth they were new players trying to learn. I still got -50% penalty because they were a group of 3 friends splitting up and zerging the quest because split-up pit is amazing xp.

    For new players, also have the problem of maybe not knowing where the quest is (if people flip out when on city, imagine the rage that ensues if they are inside the quest), or risking get lost inside the quest for not knowing where is the path.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Do you find it preferable to be taught how to do a quest, or to figure it out on your own; & why?
    I'm not new, although there are several quests I've never done.
    I would like somebody to teach me Abbot, because there's no way that I'm going to be able to solo it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    IP is a turn off because you never know if you are eating -80% or not.
    A fair point. My solution for this problem has been to send a tell before clicking "join." Just asking "how far in are you" will let you know if your likely to take an xp penalty... Unless, I suppose, your very unfamiliar with the quest in question. In that case, asking specifically "do you think the late penalty will ware off before completion?" is a good idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    For new players, also have the problem of maybe not knowing where the quest is (if people flip out when on city, imagine the rage that ensues if they are inside the quest), or risking get lost inside the quest for not knowing where is the path.
    Surely this isn't the case with every quest? What about IP lfms for a quest that you do know where it is & are familiar with "the path"? Many (though granted not all) quests in this game are fairly straight forward journeys from entrance to exit. That being said, I have to agree that joining an IP lfm for a quest you're not familiar with can easily lead to grief for both you and the party you join.
    As for people raging about someone not knowing where a quest is, yah, that happens. However I'm sure not everyone does this. I don't (ok, maybe if I'm having one of those cranky "off" days) and I've run with many others who don't either.

    Quote Originally Posted by swimmingjellycube View Post
    I would like somebody to teach me Abbot, because there's no way that I'm going to be able to solo it.
    Well, tbh I don't want to break down an entire raid here. But I'll give you the short version: after flagging for Abbot, look for any lfm for it. Before hitting "join" send a tell letting the lead know it's your first time. There's always room for 2-4 first timers, it's just a question of wether or not one of those spots are taken. If your on Thelanis, look up "Myhealer" and I'll put you in touch with a couple great people I know who do "teaching" runs just for this purpose (and those runs in turn only need 2-4 experienced Abbot raiders, rest of the spots open to first timers).
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

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