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  1. #81
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonone View Post
    I have no problem with what you say, I generally play the way you describe, although it does depend on a day to day basis. Sometimes I just don't want to play with others, especially strangers. But mostly I do agree with your outlook.

    Except for one thing.

    What you are describing is not how the game "should" be played. What you are describing is how you like to play it. There is a huge difference. A MMO, nowadays, doesn't mean you are required to, not are even "supposed" to play in a group. All it means is that the tools are available so that you CAN play in a group if you wish.

    It is a video game. It is up to player how to play it, within the framework of the rules. And if the framework of the rules is not to the player's liking, he can and will leave for something else. Which is why MMOs have changed over time. The "forced cooperation" aspect is not popular enough. People don't want to wait for groups, they want to do quests and entertain themselves.

    As far as D&D. Of course D&D requires at least 2 people, because a DM is needed (although there were solo adventure modules too, that were a sort of "choose your own adventure" type quest, some with invisible ink, and your own "honor" to abide by the dice rolls). But a "group" of players is not required. It's not as if the game couldn't function without 2 + players and a DM. All it required was 2 players, period; a DM and a PC. And the DM tailored it to the PC or PCs, perhaps allowing NPC hirelings that both the DM and player sort of jointly controlled or scaling the dungeon to the player(s) (pretty much how our Computer DM works currently in DDO).

    How certain players prefer to play does not mean that is how the game is "supposed" to be played. Especially at all times. I prefer to play the majority of the time in the way you describe. I don't bother TRing. I like trying new quests and playing with new people.

    Most of the time.

    Other times I don't. And if DDO didn't support other playstyles, when I didn't feel like playing in a particlar playstyle, I would simply play something else. So there wouldn't be any real gain made.
    I understand that.

    It's not solo play that I am against.
    It is not even xp/minute... per say.

    I am against excluding or unfriendly/welcoming LFMs.
    and worse.... leaving people behind/dead.

    IMO, if you can solo a tower... go solo it... solo the whole whole quest.
    Not like he isn't in the same tower 75% of the time....


    Anyway, I actually like a mix of playstyles.

    I put up few LFMs... sometimes I solo. Sometiems I log on another server to avoid socializing... just run quests quietly.

    But I will always help people as best I can.

    and I don't grind... that is just boring..
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  2. #82
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post
    I already said that I understand why someone would want other solo-capable people in the quest with them.

    I was looking for a reason why someone who can solo the quest and has already started is only willing to accept people who can solo a tower, when (in my opinion) any non-idiot who joins is going to make the quest easier with their help. If the idea is to get it done as quickly as possible, two competent players can complete any quest in the game faster than one, so why exclude them?
    The answer you seek is short, simple, obvious and embedded in the question it's self: They are are not seeking, are not wanting someone to do a tower with them. They are only wanting someone who will solo a different tower than the one they are in. If you need further explanation of why they would only want another soloist, and can't get the specific information you seek from the plethora of information provided to that end in this thread, next time you see this lfm, send a tell asking that individual "why?"
    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post
    If my question offended you because you saw it as a person attack, allow me to apologize. I was seeking information, not seeking to hurt anyone's feelings.
    I'm not offended, so no appologys needed, however I do appreciate that it was offered had offense been taken
    If anything, I'm confused to the point of annoyance of A) why it seems to matter to you so darn much what other people are doing to enjoy their time in the game, and B) how it is that I can see your question answered over and over again only to see you re-asking it because "no one has answered it."
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    such a common argument.... that I should just go my own way and ignore those who have fun by not allowing others into their reindeer games.
    There's a reason that argument is so common. If I may be so bold -and perhaps even a bit hypocritical- as to offer my opinion of how everyone should play, here it is:

    Everyone should play in whatever fashion/style/method/whatever they *enjoy. No one should be restricted by what or how other people think is proper, appropriate or "the way it should be."
    If people want to solo, they should.
    If people want to group with new people, "show 'em the ropes" and help them learn the game, they should.
    If people want to play exclusively with other people who are of comparable experience and ability, they should.

    If people want to put up lfms stating anything to the effect of "this is how I play, if you play this way too come join me" they should be able to do so without receiving criticism for trying to enjoy a game with people who enjoy it the same way they do.

    *The only way I will dare say people should not play is if their intention is to grief, annoy, or in any way impede on someone else's fun.

    If any of the above is unacceptable to someone, then I dare say they are the ones doing it wrong.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    I understand that.

    It's not solo play that I am against.
    It is not even xp/minute... per say.

    I am against excluding or unfriendly/welcoming LFMs.
    and worse.... leaving people behind/dead.

    IMO, if you can solo a tower... go solo it... solo the whole whole quest.
    Not like he isn't in the same tower 75% of the time....


    Anyway, I actually like a mix of playstyles.

    I put up few LFMs... sometimes I solo. Sometiems I log on another server to avoid socializing... just run quests quietly.

    But I will always help people as best I can.

    and I don't grind... that is just boring..
    And since people have different ideas of what is fun, even of what is fun at that particular time, that is exactly why exclusionary or "unfriendly" LFMs are indeed valuable.

    They contain within them the shorthand notes necessary to basically let you know what type of playstyle they are engaging in, therefore giving people some information to let them decide if they want to join such a group.

    If the leader's playstyle doesn't sound like fun, then it's a good idea to know that ahead of time, before joining the group.

  5. #85
    Community Member Qhualor1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonone View Post
    And since people have different ideas of what is fun, even of what is fun at that particular time, that is exactly why exclusionary or "unfriendly" LFMs are indeed valuable.

    They contain within them the shorthand notes necessary to basically let you know what type of playstyle they are engaging in, therefore giving people some information to let them decide if they want to join such a group.

    If the leader's playstyle doesn't sound like fun, then it's a good idea to know that ahead of time, before joining the group.
    exclusionary lfms are too generalized. theres not enough room to put exactly what type of play style the PL really wants. I usually avoid BYOH lfms because most groups I have joined were little to no teamwork, zerg and I only take care of me, myself and I. there are some who have disputed that and say most BYOH groups they join are the complete opposite.

    in the case of the topic of this thread, I usually avoid "solo a tower" lfms because most of the groups I have joined zerged for the xp/min and caused DA. I can solo a tower just fine, even as a no umd melee, but when its a rat race to the top to get the most xp/min and I have to deal with harried and the PL huffing and puffing wondering what is taking so long than im all set with that. if the lfm was something like "solo a tower, no zerg" than I would have no problems with it and happily join.
    Qhualor, the P2W ranter.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor1 View Post
    exclusionary lfms are too generalized. theres not enough room to put exactly what type of play style the PL really wants. I usually avoid BYOH lfms because most groups I have joined were little to no teamwork, zerg and I only take care of me, myself and I. there are some who have disputed that and say most BYOH groups they join are the complete opposite.

    in the case of the topic of this thread, I usually avoid "solo a tower" lfms because most of the groups I have joined zerged for the xp/min and caused DA. I can solo a tower just fine, even as a no umd melee, but when its a rat race to the top to get the most xp/min and I have to deal with harried and the PL huffing and puffing wondering what is taking so long than im all set with that. if the lfm was something like "solo a tower, no zerg" than I would have no problems with it and happily join.
    There you go. You've joined those groups. You haven't enjoyed it. And now you know not to join it. Therefore the LFM works just fine.

  7. #87
    Community Member ~D4rth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    I understand that.

    It's not solo play that I am against.
    It is not even xp/minute... per say.

    I am against excluding or unfriendly/welcoming LFMs.
    and worse.... leaving people behind/dead.

    IMO, if you can solo a tower... go solo it... solo the whole whole quest.
    Not like he isn't in the same tower 75% of the time....
    I'm usually on a TR train with a friend or two and we run everything at zerg speed. If I put an "all welcome" LFM up it ends up with either people that don't like to zerg not having fun or the three of us not having fun.

    If we're farming Wizking after elite we're gonna split up and each of us is gonna take on a tower. Someone is eventually gonna die and the others are gonna get to his tower after they're finished with their tower. Someone might even pike a run or two, afk RL, bio, etc.

    If I get someone that doesn't know the quest and is new next is gonna happen:
    He will get lost.
    He will die in a trap.
    He will fall trough the floor and die.
    He will die in the traps.
    He will fight every single mob left behind and then whine about being left behind.
    He will get cursed by the golem and beaten to death cause he forgot a curse removal pot.
    He will get diseased and cursed by mummies, whine that the "healer" isn't healing him.
    He will find more ways to die since this quest offers many ways to die in it.

    After he dies he will:
    Ragequit.
    Be mad at others for not coming to rez him immediately than ragequit.
    Be mad at "healer" not healing him than ragequit.
    Be mad about traps not being disabled.
    Be dissapointed that nobody guieded him through the quest.

    Now mind you, I don't mind people dying in a quest. I do however mind them being obnoxious to others after they die.

    So are you saying that I should put "All welcome" and make others that don't have the same playstyle run at zerg speed or am I better off with "Be able to solo a tower" and get experienced folk that are gonna be relaxed and chat while we do the quest for the upteenth time?

  8. #88
    Community Member marciosilva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpycat View Post
    First of all... bite me for thinking this player should conform to your style of play. Apparently, his style of LFM works or he would quit doing it. Looks like you're the odd man out.
    Well, for me, each one on his own LFM. I never apply to an LFM that I don't like. And I don't send tells to their party leaders. I just carry on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpycat View Post
    But my main reason to reply is your last sentence. If you're spending all your time on Tera... dont come back and tell us our game sucks. You like Tera... great. I dont and I dont appreciate you coming in here to trash a player in the game or the game itself. Boo hoo. People wont play with me. Then why are you here annoying us in our forum?
    I have played DDO a lot. I have paid my DDO Store items. I have invested more than 100 Eur in this game. May not be much (as most of you are VIP in game classification as well as "look at me I'm better than you" VIP style of snobish people). I have the right to come here, post in OUR forums, I'm not superior neither inferior to your own fleshy human being (please refer to my last sentence in this topic as well).


    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpycat View Post
    Im sorry. I get so sick of people that dont play the game coming in here to trash it. It has it's issues but what game doesnt? Im also sick and tired of people thinking that everyone has to conform to their style of play. If the guy in question, and I really do think I know who your talking about, wants to spend his money on XP stones and XP boosts to get his character thru super completion(3x every life) then that's his enjoyment and his play style. If you want to do 100% completion on every quest, that's your style. You people with the *play my way* mindset need to play solitaire because that's the only place you're gonna find some one to agree with how you play all the time.
    Oh but I DO play the game. More often than you may think. And I'm sick and tired of long reported bugs not being solved. Tired and sick to see game updates changing good things the game had. Sick and tired with supposed improvements, and watch our toons being gimped because we can't do a simple thing like a feat exchange. Lastly, I'm so tired and sick of reading your type of hostile posting. If a guy wants to trade his own RL for life in the game, let him do it. I was only wandering how some people are to the point of spending so much time in the game. I have not offended a single person here with my comments.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpycat View Post
    This is my hobby. It costs less than any other hobby I could be into. (Was a computer/networking junkie and cost thousands). I play my way. If I cant find people to play similarly, I dont whine that their LFMs exclude me. I dont come to the forums and whine for attention. I either solo, play one of my other 17 toons, take a break or modify my standards to comply with another player's LFM.
    This is also my hobby. I also play my way. We agree on this, don't have a reason to comment here. I've done zerg runs for favor and/or xp, I've done slow paced runs to get in the mood of role play, I've done my solo quests here and then, even if not too often.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpycat View Post
    As my final statement, You sir, are nothing more than a troll.
    And as my final statement, if you cared to read this far, I would ask you: look at yourself. Are you better than me? I didn't come here to offend whoever it would be. But you, I'm afraid you can't say the same. As you said yourself, your main reason to reply was my last sentence. You wrote an entire topic only to troll me. I truly appreciate your dedication on me.

    _______________________________

    Bottom line: I still like DDO, I'm not whining about LFMs that I don't care to join because they are not my style of play, I'm not whining the tradicional "oh I'm leaving because I don't like DDO anymore". I still play to see if Turbine improves somethings. Meanwhile, I will just spend my time trying other gaming environment.

    My comment was just that: a comment. Read all the unhappy users postings all over General section and you see how I feel about DDO right now. Ok I mentioned the name of another MMO. Who hasn't? You make seem its a crime or something worse...

    Anyway, I only wish you one thing:

    Best regards, and don't get too much aggro on forums. Its bad for your health
    [Ghallanda]
    [Nemessi sorcerer][Helenya cleric][Riita cleric][Myrhea artificer][Shunrei monk][Sverlana rogue][Lillyannn paladin]

  9. #89
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    The OP has a point. Just yesterday, a person had a solo a tower elite up. I instead put my own LFM up, it filled within minutes, and we completed the quest while the other person's LFM was still up, and he ended up in the quest for over an hour before he completed or quit trying. In this instance, that person should have just dropped the solo a tower restriction. It would have been much better for him. Some people are just weird like that.

    The game has changed over the last two months or so. I'm noting that my own "exclusionary" LFMs, as well as others do not fill. Not even a hit. I'm on a divine life, so I've changed the way I do things, and ALL my LFMs fill within five minutes. This leads to a lot of people coming to the forums and complaining about LFMs not filling. I have a feeling these are people posting "exclusionary" LFMs. And they're right, they aren't filling. But non-exclusionary LFMs are filling quite quickly. I have no idea what caused this shift in the playerbase, but I think it will cause people to adapt their playstyle or eventually leave.

    I like playing with people, and I have no problem with people dieing in my groups and what not. I view that as the price I pay for having a group to run with. The reason I used to put up exclusionary LFMs is because I don't know what to do if someone comes in the group that needs to be healed. So I would put BYOH and such. When i'm done with my six divine lives, we'll see what I do then. I'm not quite sure, because I'll be back to the same problem.

  10. #90
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Since we're still going on about exclusionary lfms, let's be clear & honest about something: ALL lfms are exclusionary. ALL of them.
    Lvl1-25 favor farming - excludes everyone looking to get xp.
    Sentinels chain lvl 7-9 for xp - excludes everyone below or above that level range.
    A five man party "need healer" excludes all non-healers.
    A five man party "need cc" excludes all non-casters, and some week cc nuke-casters.
    "No Zerg/all opts" excludes xp/min players.
    "byoh" excludes those who can't.
    "be flagged" by necessity excludes those who aren't.
    "solo a tower" excludes those who can't.
    "farming (x) chest" excludes those who would prefer a quest completion.
    "No soloists" excludes those who would prefer to devide and conquer.
    The list goes on & on...

    So take a moment and be honest, is it really that "exclusionary" lfms are a problem?
    Or
    Is it just lfms that exclude you (whomever you may be) that are a problem for you?
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 05-07-2013 at 06:10 PM.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  11. #91
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marciosilva View Post
    I have played DDO a lot. I have paid my DDO Store items. I have invested more than 100 Eur in this game. May not be much (as most of you are VIP in game classification as well as "look at me I'm better than you" VIP style of snobish people). I have the right to come here, post in OUR forums, I'm not superior neither inferior to your own fleshy human being (please refer to my last sentence in this topic as well).
    VIP member here.

    Yeah, being calld a "snob" because I rent the game as opposed to purchasing packs is a real winner for me. I want more of that!

    Do us all a favor: stay gone. Thanks.






    And yeah I'm better that you. Inso many, many ways possible...

  12. #92
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    I put up an LFM once that said "no soloists." Does that make me exclusionary?

  13. #93
    Community Member marciosilva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    (...)
    Yeah, being calld a "snob" because I rent the game as opposed to purchasing packs is a real winner for me. I want more of that!
    I didn't call snob to every people that got VIP package. I think its a good thing to do so, I know of all the goodies and would get a VIP for myself if I had a job.


    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Do us all a favor: stay gone. Thanks.
    I can stay gone very easily. Enough for the effort to read and write in a language that is not my own, because of problems that are not my own, with people that (mostly) spend their lifes arguing and trolling all over the place. Not the place for me, you are right about that. I have a real life here, and too many real life goodies to get me worried with someone like you. Its not worth the trouble to stay much longer.


    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    And yeah I'm better that you. Inso many, many ways possible...
    Ok I'm going to laugh on this one. Let other people decide on that, ok?

    (I think you forgot a space bar between "In" and "so", plus the "better that you", should read "better than you", don't you think you shouldn't get grammar lessons from a portuguese user, Mr. I'm Better Than You?)

    Cheers and thanks to you too, for dedicating an entire post to myself
    [Ghallanda]
    [Nemessi sorcerer][Helenya cleric][Riita cleric][Myrhea artificer][Shunrei monk][Sverlana rogue][Lillyannn paladin]

  14. #94
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    I put up an LFM once that said "no soloists." Does that make me exclusionary?
    Yes, it excludes anyone who prefers the "divide and conquer" method. I'll add it to the list
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 05-07-2013 at 06:11 PM.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  15. #95
    Community Member ~Grumpycat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marciosilva View Post
    I have invested more than 100 Eur in this game.
    And I have spent $1000 US. Your point?

    You want to complain about Turbine's mistakes? I get it. I do too. You want to complain about the direction the game is taking? I do too. You want to say that the answers to the previous questions are why you're playing another game? I got no issues. But when you trash a player for putting up an LFM outlining his own rules? I got a problem with that.

    As another post stated, verifying what I said, If people dont want to follow those rules, they wont join the LFM. And the guy either ended up soloing or not doing the quest. Again, verifying what I said. While my LFMs generally have *need shadow kite/healer/tank/7 sith lords or my personal favorite, Gimps only, I dont expect people to more than to follow my direction. and as they join, I give those directions so if they dont think they can follow it, they have time to vacate a spot for some one who can.

    But I dont sit in the forum and try to berate some one for playing their way. If I dont like it, I start my own or join something else.

    I understand the frustration of wanting to run a toon and not being able to find a group at level. It's the reason I have so many toons. It gives me options instead of being restrained to soloing if I dont like the LFMs that are up. There's also crafting, AH manipulation (buy low/sell high, boost bids I feel are too low, etc) inventory clean up. Plenty to do. I also understand the frustration of change. I took a 3 month break after MotU came out because the new gear ruined everything I was aiming for and now had to start over and recalculate and change my quest focuses.

    But again... dont come in, tell us you dont play any more, trash the game and a player. It doesnt fly any farther than trollville.

    Edits were for spelling errs
    Last edited by Grumpycat; 05-07-2013 at 06:43 PM.

  16. #96
    Community Member marciosilva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpycat View Post
    ...

    Edits were for spelling errs
    LOL, now you made my day, just had a good laugh on this...

    Thanks
    [Ghallanda]
    [Nemessi sorcerer][Helenya cleric][Riita cleric][Myrhea artificer][Shunrei monk][Sverlana rogue][Lillyannn paladin]

  17. #97
    Community Member ~HunterScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    VIP member here.

    Yeah, being calld a "snob" because I rent the game as opposed to purchasing packs is a real winner for me. I want more of that!

    Do us all a favor: stay gone. Thanks.


    And yeah I'm better that you. Inso many, many ways possible...

  18. #98
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marciosilva View Post
    Ok I'm going to laugh on this one. Let other people decide on that, ok?

    (I think you forgot a space bar between "In" and "so", plus the "better that you", should read "better than you", don't you think you shouldn't get grammar lessons from a portuguese user, Mr. I'm Better Than You?)

    Cheers and thanks to you too, for dedicating an entire post to myself
    First, the color combo on my edit box is black on dark gray, so it is not the optimal solution for proofreading my posts.

    Second, the edit button does nothing. So if there is a misspelling or misplaced, redundant comma here or there I can't change it.

    Third, I'm a published author with both a book and magazine articles in professional magazines to my credit. I know all about editing, grammar, and whatnot; probably moreso than you ever will. I don't bother to do that with forum posts. Sorry if you can't handle that concept.

    Fourth, your grasp of the English language is kinda feeble. I counted a minimum of six errors in the post I quoted. So if we want to play the "human spellchecker," I'm up for the challenge...junior.

    Fifth...yeah, I'm still better than you...VIP snobbery and all that.

  19. #99
    Community Member ~Grumpycat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterScout View Post

    Making LFM's that intimidate them away simply doesn't help the issue. Whether or not we "like" it or even agree with it, the facts stand for themselves.
    While I agree with this and have stated that if the community doesnt join the LFM, the guy will get the idea that a) no one that can is on, B) no one likes this type of LFM or C) solo it and keep the LFM in the hopes that some one joins him eventually. Ok, maybe D) remain blissfully ignorant and continue putting up this sort of LFM. This isnt the point of the discussion at hand.

    But that wasn't the tone of the OP. The tone of the OP was denigrating to that type of LFM. And that's just wrong. While there are those who have unlimited time to play the game, there are others who have strict limitations whether they are self appointed or otherwise. And if the person who has limited time doesnt want to dink around with newb or noobs, then that's his right as a paying customer. (or even as a free player).

    It bothers me to see anyone make fun of, deride or downright slap around anyone for their play style. It's his choice to play that way. Just as it is your choice to accept and join the LFM or dont join it. And you have the choice of creating your own LFM.

    Now, if yo uwish to discuss the good or evil for the game overall, reread this post and remove the parts about negative comments toward the poster of the LFM. It's the same result. Join or dont. But dont get on some one who may not have the time or inclination to deal with noobs or newbs.

    And so there is no misunderstanding my meaning,
    Newb- new guy who needs to be led by the hand
    Noob - Vet who acts like a newb

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterScout View Post
    Making LFM's that intimidate them away simply doesn't help the issue. Whether or not we "like" it or even agree with it, the facts stand for themselves.
    <snip>
    I think at it's heart this thread is about this issue and the LFM panel is our advertisement, our bill board if you will, to new players to get them invested in the game and community. Unfortunately the trend in game (and on the boards) of late has been anything but flattering.
    I got to wondering about how lfms and their terminology effected new players too, so I made a thread and asked them about it. The results -while an obviously small (even tiny) sample size vs player population- have been nothing short of interesting. (to me anyway)
    Here's the synopsis:

    It seems that "exclusionary" lfms don't discourage new players from staying in the game. It does seem to encourage some to solo, although most have stated a preferance for soloing new-to-them content anyway. So the notion that these lfms drive new people away doesn't seem to hold water as far as being a "fact" is concerned. I will note however, that many have said they would like to see more "first timers welcome" lfms, but again the lack of them doesn't seem to be driving people away from the game.

    A few so far have expressed their opinions on "exclusionary" lfms. It seems these are indeed apreciated as way of informing people that this is a group they may not enjoy, either because of the play style or player attitudes advertised/suggested by the lfm notes. Nobody (in that thread) has suggested that these lfms are bad, or should not be there.

    Also of interesting note, at least one respondent noted that these threads where we squabble over what we "vets" think is best for -and what should or should not be done on behalf of- the new players was it's self a turn off to grouping, suggesting that in either case he(she?) would be stuck grouping with people who thought they new what was best for them.

    As I said at the start though, the sample size is comparatively quite small. The thread is obviously titled. Check it out if you like, draw your own conclusions. Ask your own questions. Just please, PLEASE keep it cordial.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

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