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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post
    This thread was not intended to be about whether anyone should be teaching new players. It was also not intended to be read as "why would anyone want solo-capable people in their group?"

    My question, which was clearly poorly worded, was supposed to be more like:
    Why do so many people post an LFM for elite Wizard King that read reads, "Elite, BB, be able to solo a tower, IP"? The reason I'm curious is because it seems to me that, if you are solo capable and have already started the quest, any non-idiot who joins is going to help you, even if they can't solo a tower. If it takes you forty minutes to complete on your own, and someone else joins who can't solo a tower but can help you, and together that gets you a 35 minute completion instead of a 40 minute completion, why wouldn't you let them join?

    One person pointed out that, if you are planning to farm it on hard, it makes sense to wait for other solo-capable players to join before starting your elite run.

    I still haven't heard any answers as to why someone who can solo the whole thing themselves, and who has already started the quest, would refuse to let anyone else join unless they can solo a tower.
    Not that I pug Wiz-king, with or without LFM rules, but a couple of points that might address your question. I generally just run with a static group of friends that I joined the game with.

    1) I would suppose that the issue is if you take people who can't solo a tower, they take up the party slot of someone who could. Now, given the nature of wiz-king, you could take up to 3 pikers and not affect the completion time particularly. But, if I was leading a pug, I'd make sure I had the 3 solo capable toons first, lest I get stuck in a group full of people who can't, leading to inflated completion times.

    2) Depending on the toon I suppose, but, no, if you can't solo a tower, you won't speed it up. For example, on a cleric life, I won't stop running the entire time. No need to. Blade Barrier works better if I keep the mobs moving anyway. All you do is give the mobs extra hp and higher damage. So, in such a situation, taking a any player who can't solo a tower probably has no real impact on the completion time.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by dravael View Post
    I'm exasperated by the attitude among some that if we don't hold the hands of people, they'll never learn....on the contrary, I think if we keep holding their hands, they'll NEVER get to learn. People who want to learn should, quite honestly, run the content themselves (either solo or in their own group, with or without the wiki) as a learning run - nothing in this game is complicated enough (outside of a couple raids, such as Abbot) that this falls behind as about the best way to learn the game.
    100% agreed

    I ran WizKing solo a few times at cap because I had leveled past it on my first life and didn't get to it until I was 20. It was an exceptionally confusing quest and it took me more than a few tries before I came even close to learning the map. If I could handle the enemies in the quest, but didn't know the layout of the quest well, then I'd be worse than useless even if someone had run ahead and killed every enemy in the quest for me.

    I don't think there is any need for "know it" in most quests because it's pretty difficult to screw up most quests enough that you're truly lost inside the quest and can't figure out how to make progress. But in Wiz King, it's absolutely possible - and even likely if you don't bother to learn the paths yourself before joining a zerg run.

    You don't need to do any quest at-level on your first life. If there is a quest that you can't do yourself, it's entirely reasonable to wait until 20 and then go back to try it out a few times until you figure out what's going on in the quest to the point that you can try it again at level on your next life or on another character.

  3. #63
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    I have always found this attitude sad.

    Wiz King is a great quest, and can be quite challenging at level.

    Regardless of DA, there was always those who chose to simply run through it instead of fighting anything along the way.
    Man I hate that!

    In this quest however, what often happened was people got left behind.... and either died and ran from everything trying desperately to find their way back to the group....

    The groups I have always liked took effort to save those who fell through floors... or otherwise got lost along the way.

    I will never understand those who simply find running to the end chest, past every monster in a dungeon, to be the "fun" way to play DDO.

    Sad.. even more so in this quest.

    This is an excellent designed quest.
    One of the few with an "epic" feel to it.

    An ancient Lich King in his pyramid tomb... full of traps and unliving servants entombed with him....
    One of the first with semi-random traps.

    The huge number of new players who fall through the floors in this one shows just how well designed it really was.

    So sad that it has become just a loot run to the end chest(s)...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post
    This thread was not intended to be about whether anyone should be teaching new players. It was also not intended to be read as "why would anyone want solo-capable people in their group?"

    My question, which was clearly poorly worded, was supposed to be more like:
    Why do so many people post an LFM for elite Wizard King that read reads, "Elite, BB, be able to solo a tower, IP"? The reason I'm curious is because it seems to me that, if you are solo capable and have already started the quest, any non-idiot who joins is going to help you, even if they can't solo a tower. If it takes you forty minutes to complete on your own, and someone else joins who can't solo a tower but can help you, and together that gets you a 35 minute completion instead of a 40 minute completion, why wouldn't you let them join?

    One person pointed out that, if you are planning to farm it on hard, it makes sense to wait for other solo-capable players to join before starting your elite run.

    I still haven't heard any answers as to why someone who can solo the whole thing themselves, and who has already started the quest, would refuse to let anyone else join unless they can solo a tower.
    From experience, it makes almost no difference on completion time to have two people (assuming at least one of them is good enough to solo a tower) in the same tower - scaling will mitigate most benefit that would appear, and the most time-consuming part of Wizard King is the run time it takes to complete it, causing every extra tower group (up to the third group, and "group" here can mean one soloer or two people) to significantly increase the speed at which the quest can be accomplished, such that 3 groups complete the quest in less than a third of the time a single group would complete it (and the single group completes it in similar time to one group).
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    I have always found this attitude sad.

    Wiz King is a great quest, and can be quite challenging at level.

    Regardless of DA, there was always those who chose to simply run through it instead of fighting anything along the way.
    Man I hate that!

    In this quest however, what often happened was people got left behind.... and either died and ran from everything trying desperately to find their way back to the group....

    The groups I have always liked took effort to save those who fell through floors... or otherwise got lost along the way.

    I will never understand those who simply find running to the end chest, past every monster in a dungeon, to be the "fun" way to play DDO.

    Sad.. even more so in this quest.

    This is an excellent designed quest.
    One of the few with an "epic" feel to it.

    An ancient Lich King in his pyramid tomb... full of traps and unliving servants entombed with him....
    One of the first with semi-random traps.

    The huge number of new players who fall through the floors in this one shows just how well designed it really was.

    So sad that it has become just a loot run to the end chest(s)...
    It's not a loot run, though...it's an XP run (as it can be the second-best XP/minute quest in the desert).
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  6. #66
    Community Member ~Grumpycat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post
    This thread was not intended to be about whether anyone should be teaching new players. It was also not intended to be read as "why would anyone want solo-capable people in their group?"

    My question, which was clearly poorly worded, was supposed to be more like:
    Why do so many people post an LFM for elite Wizard King that read reads, "Elite, BB, be able to solo a tower, IP"? The reason I'm curious is because it seems to me that, if you are solo capable and have already started the quest, any non-idiot who joins is going to help you, even if they can't solo a tower. If it takes you forty minutes to complete on your own, and someone else joins who can't solo a tower but can help you, and together that gets you a 35 minute completion instead of a 40 minute completion, why wouldn't you let them join?

    One person pointed out that, if you are planning to farm it on hard, it makes sense to wait for other solo-capable players to join before starting your elite run.

    I still haven't heard any answers as to why someone who can solo the whole thing themselves, and who has already started the quest, would refuse to let anyone else join unless they can solo a tower.

    Because if you are IP and somebody who cant solo a tower comes in and goes the wrong way to catch up to you, you either A) have to leave them dead at which point everyone thinks you're a jerk or B) go back and get them which turns a 40 min quest into a 60 min quest.

    I wouldnt care about being considered a jerk. I would calmly tell them, *The LFM said be able to solo. The mistake on your part doesn't constitute and emergency on my part. Recall and try again.*

    When Im grinding TR XP on a 3+ life character, Im not slowing down to put a coat over the puddle for the ladies, helping the old man cross the street or even changing the baby. I set aside my game time to play my game. You join my group, it's my rules. I neither have the time nor the inclination to change my LFM rules to suit you after you ignore them. I will admit that once it was over, if you're still dead, I'll prolly chace down your stone and rez you but will leave you to find the treasure on your own as I leave party and reform with some one who can read and follow the LFM. You wont make the squelch list if you dont get whiney about it but I will remember your toon name and be sure I dont allow you in the same type of LFM for a long time. (long time being- long enough you have become more self sufficient)

    That wont apply to ALL my LFMs. IE- Shroud LFM usually is *Gimps only. Let's get it done>*

  7. #67
    Community Member ~Grumpycat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post
    This thread was not intended to be about whether anyone should be teaching new players. It was also not intended to be read as "why would anyone want solo-capable people in their group?"

    My question, which was clearly poorly worded, was supposed to be more like:
    Why do so many people post an LFM for elite Wizard King that read reads, "Elite, BB, be able to solo a tower, IP"? The reason I'm curious is because it seems to me that, if you are solo capable and have already started the quest, any non-idiot who joins is going to help you, even if they can't solo a tower. If it takes you forty minutes to complete on your own, and someone else joins who can't solo a tower but can help you, and together that gets you a 35 minute completion instead of a 40 minute completion, why wouldn't you let them join?

    One person pointed out that, if you are planning to farm it on hard, it makes sense to wait for other solo-capable players to join before starting your elite run.

    I still haven't heard any answers as to why someone who can solo the whole thing themselves, and who has already started the quest, would refuse to let anyone else join unless they can solo a tower.

    Because if you are IP and somebody who cant solo a tower comes in and goes the wrong way to catch up to you, you either A) have to leave them dead at which point everyone thinks you're a jerk or B) go back and get them which turns a 40 min quest into a 60 min quest.

    I wouldnt care about being considered a jerk. I would calmly tell them, *The LFM said be able to solo. The mistake on your part doesn't constitute and emergency on my part. Recall and try again.*

    When Im grinding TR XP on a 3+ life character, Im not slowing down to put a coat over the puddle for the ladies, helping the old man cross the street or even changing the baby. I set aside my game time to play my game. You join my group, it's my rules. I neither have the time nor the inclination to change my LFM rules to suit you after you ignore them. I will admit that once it was over, if you're still dead, I'll prolly chace down your stone and rez you but will leave you to find the treasure on your own as I leave party and reform with some one who can read and follow the LFM. You wont make the squelch list if you dont get whiney about it but I will remember your toon name and be sure I dont allow you in the same type of LFM for a long time. (long time being- long enough you have become more self sufficient)

    That wont apply to ALL my LFMs. IE- Shroud LFM usually is *Gimps only. Let's get it done>*

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post
    I still haven't heard any answers as to why someone who can solo the whole thing themselves, and who has already started the quest, would refuse to let anyone else join unless they can solo a tower.
    The following is in chronological order, from page 1 to ^this post^ on page 3...
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    It will take longer...because...scaling...means mob HP increase, saves increase etc.
    ^Referring to having someone join you on the one tower at a time method^
    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Because...What they are looking for is someone who can turn a 30-40 minute trudge through one tower at a time quest into a 10 minute or less take all the towers down at the same time quest.
    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    They just would like to find others capable of joining them to shorten their runs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Pretty simple math really. A half-decent party who can split up and solo a tower each will get a no-death completion of the quest and all optionals in 7 mins.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pho3nixx View Post
    If my group reads "be able to solo a tower" is cause i want to get the quest done fast
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpycat View Post
    3 people soloing a tower each means that one of you will hit the boss in 1 run. This way, you dont have the possibility of having to hit all 3 towers to complete.
    Be able to solo a tower means, to me anyway, Im a TR and trying to speed thru this XP. Come join me and make it faster.
    So you see Mob, your question was answered many times over before you re-restated it on page 3. So is the problem really that no one has answered it? Or is it that you were looking for a specific answer you already had in mind? Or (as I suspect) is your real issue that, in your opinion, there is no "acceptable" answer because (as you have stated & implied countless times previously) you don't think people should put up these kinds of lfms, and the ones who do are elitist exclusionary expletives?
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  9. #69
    Community Member marciosilva's Avatar
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    What makes me sad, is not the playability, neither he topic itself of "be able to solo blah blah blah".

    I've seen so many of these topics, specially about that quest, just like that "Be able to solo a tower" and also associated with "byoh". I play on Ghallanda, so it seems this matter happens all over, not on your server.

    I've seen too many of these LFMs, but most of them are posted by the SAME PLAYER. Life after life, I see him TRing again and again, each life with a different class/race combo. Its ok people do that, TRing its just that, play the same quests over again.

    But on this character I've seen, this happens way too many times in a short period of time. Makes me think "how many hours per day this guy spends on his RL?". I see many TRs post LFMs again and again, but some of them are just insanely quick on TRing.

    I'm sad to see that DDO has become a "grind to win" game. I have no toons with EDs (I never liked that game philosophy anyway, I loved when level limit was 20, period).

    I'm so but so bored with both DDO game mechanics and forums, that I spend my time now playing Tera.

    Cheers
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  10. #70
    Community Member ~Grumpycat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marciosilva View Post
    What makes me sad, is not the playability, neither he topic itself of "be able to solo blah blah blah".

    I've seen so many of these topics, specially about that quest, just like that "Be able to solo a tower" and also associated with "byoh". I play on Ghallanda, so it seems this matter happens all over, not on your server.

    I've seen too many of these LFMs, but most of them are posted by the SAME PLAYER. Life after life, I see him TRing again and again, each life with a different class/race combo. Its ok people do that, TRing its just that, play the same quests over again.

    But on this character I've seen, this happens way too many times in a short period of time. Makes me think "how many hours per day this guy spends on his RL?". I see many TRs post LFMs again and again, but some of them are just insanely quick on TRing.

    I'm sad to see that DDO has become a "grind to win" game. I have no toons with EDs (I never liked that game philosophy anyway, I loved when level limit was 20, period).

    I'm so but so bored with both DDO game mechanics and forums, that I spend my time now playing Tera.

    Cheers
    First of all... bite me for thinking this player should conform to your style of play. Apparently, his style of LFM works or he would quit doing it. Looks like you're the odd man out.

    But my main reason to reply is your last sentence. If you're spending all your time on Tera... dont come back and tell us our game sucks. You like Tera... great. I dont and I dont appreciate you coming in here to trash a player in the game or the game itself. Boo hoo. People wont play with me. Then why are you here annoying us in our forum?

    Im sorry. I get so sick of people that dont play the game coming in here to trash it. It has it's issues but what game doesnt? Im also sick and tired of people thinking that everyone has to conform to their style of play. If the guy in question, and I really do think I know who your talking about, wants to spend his money on XP stones and XP boosts to get his character thru super completion(3x every life) then that's his enjoyment and his play style. If you want to do 100% completion on every quest, that's your style. You people with the *play my way* mindset need to play solitaire because that's the only place you're gonna find some one to agree with how you play all the time.

    This is my hobby. It costs less than any other hobby I could be into. (Was a computer/networking junkie and cost thousands). I play my way. If I cant find people to play similarly, I dont whine that their LFMs exclude me. I dont come to the forums and whine for attention. I either solo, play one of my other 17 toons, take a break or modify my standards to comply with another player's LFM.

    As my final statement, You sir, are nothing more than a troll.

  11. #71
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    I tried this LFM not too long ago, still got people that weren't able to solo tower and died like noobs. Some just can't read lfms.

  12. #72
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    I have always thought that a MMO was supposed to be played with other people.

    As an old school D&D player, (and an old school DDO player) I think that this game should be played by a group that more or less does the dungeon together.

    I do kinda wish there were more dungeons with alternate paths.... and I do support people going off by themselves if they wish to...
    But in general, a group should more or less stay together.

    and no one should be required to be alone.

    no one should ever be left behind. (especially dead)

    zerging is fine.
    (but not everytime... come on people..)

    The fun is suppose to be in the actual doing of the dungeon.... not just teleporting to the end chest and getting instant XP.

    any LFM that says "I ain't helping you out noob" in whatever language you choose to say it in, is unfrendly.
    and whether I personally "know it" or "can solo it" etc.... I have decided that unfriendly LFMs are either not going to be fun... or I will be compromising my principles if I join them....

    how I wish everyone who dis-liked this stuff would take a similar view.. and not join.
    How I wish the community would come together and show no tolerance to those who....well... show no tolerance.... lol.

    It used to be different in DDO.
    We had a few elitist, but in general we did not tolerate them.

    Now though... unfriendly LFMs are the norm... the majority of the forum posters actuallf defend unfriendly LFMs... and playstyles.

    sad.


    But even despite the unfriendly LFMs, just the fact that people want to get through a dungeon in the quickest manner possible, instead of enjoying actually playing through the dungeon, more or less as intended... weil.. that is sad too.

    Wiz King is a great dungeon.
    Old... but great.

    Yes, I have done it a thousand times.... so yeah it has lost some of it's luster.

    Zerging is different from rushing to get it over with.

    Zerging is what you do to have fun slaughering monsters as fast as possible.. because you are reveling in your offensive power....

    Take that! Get some! muhuhaha...
    That is fun.

    Just stepping in opening a chest and collecting XP, is not fun.

    IMO, TRing was suppose to allow you to have fun redoing content on a favorite toon, but in a new way.
    The extra XP needed to level up was intended to slow you down, so that you can enjoy all of the lower level stuff... maybe do quests you missed the first time around....

    But somehow TRing instead became a rush back to cap.....

    Well... personally, I am having to much fun at 20+ to ever TR again.

    Oh well.. not like I can change anyone's mind....
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    .
    The extra XP needed to level up was intended to slow you down, so that you can enjoy all of the lower level stuff... maybe do quests you missed the first time around....

    But somehow TRing instead became a rush back to cap.....
    I think it was the extra XP that made people feel that they had to grind out the max xp/min. They never should have added that punitive measure.
    Addicted to DDO since 2006
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_ View Post
    I think it was the extra XP that made people feel that they had to grind out the max xp/min. They never should have added that punitive measure.
    You know if you can run quest on Elite once in a life and still not run them all and have enough XP to level 1 to 20. I've done this 4x's now.

    The mentality is speed through running the same stuff over and over. The problem is missing out on everything else, because travel time, speed of completion in relation to XP earned and just plain dislikes of quest mechanics is what prevents many from running more of the content that already exists.

    The problem with TR'ng is so many have such a long term plan of multiple lives that there is no time to enjoy the one they are in currently.

    Now please don't take my comments as "You should play DDO this way...", I can just say that I've met so many Burned-Out players because of their rush through lives. Many of which expressed that they just didn't find it fun anymore and some that "Simplified" their TR'ng and found the fun again in questing.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    I think that this game should be played by a group that...more or less stay together.

    How I wish the community would come together and show no tolerance to those who....well... show no tolerance.... lol.

    It used to be different... We had a few elitist, but in general we did not tolerate them.

    Oh well.. not like I can change anyone's mind....
    So in short, anyone who doesn't play your way is doing it wrong, and in the name of tollerance should not be tolerated?

    You are familiar with the definition of hypocrisy, are you not?

    Edit: Do you realize that if you were to put up a "non-exclusionary" "everyone stay together" lfm, you would be excluding anyone/everyone who likes to divide and conquer? food for thought...
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 05-06-2013 at 03:41 PM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  16. #76
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    The following is in chronological order, from page 1 to ^this post^ on page 3...

    ^Referring to having someone join you on the one tower at a time method^





    So you see Mob, your question was answered many times over before you re-restated it on page 3. So is the problem really that no one has answered it? Or is it that you were looking for a specific answer you already had in mind? Or (as I suspect) is your real issue that, in your opinion, there is no "acceptable" answer because (as you have stated & implied countless times previously) you don't think people should put up these kinds of lfms, and the ones who do are elitist exclusionary expletives?
    Yeah, okay...

    I already said that I understand why someone would want other solo-capable people in the quest with them.

    I was looking for a reason why someone who can solo the quest and has already started is only willing to accept people who can solo a tower, when (in my opinion) any non-idiot who joins is going to make the quest easier with their help. If the idea is to get it done as quickly as possible, two competent players can complete any quest in the game faster than one, so why exclude them?

    My question was never, "Why don't you allow gimps and morons to join? How would that slow you down?" I already know the answer to that.

    My question was more along the lines of: "If you are a good player who can solo, and you start the quest, and another good but perhaps not solo-tower-capable player wants to join, why wouldn't you let them?" I have yet to see a logical answer to that. The scaling answer is the only one that approaches a viable reason, but in my opinion two-man scaling versus solo scaling isn't that dramatic a difference. Especially considering that, in my question, the second person isn't just a piker who will sit at the entrance, but a good player who will help you.

    If my question offended you because you saw it as a person attack, allow me to apologize. I was seeking information, not seeking to hurt anyone's feelings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    I have always thought that a MMO was supposed to be played with other people.

    As an old school D&D player, (and an old school DDO player) I think that this game should be played by a group that more or less does the dungeon together.
    I have no problem with what you say, I generally play the way you describe, although it does depend on a day to day basis. Sometimes I just don't want to play with others, especially strangers. But mostly I do agree with your outlook.

    Except for one thing.

    What you are describing is not how the game "should" be played. What you are describing is how you like to play it. There is a huge difference. A MMO, nowadays, doesn't mean you are required to, not are even "supposed" to play in a group. All it means is that the tools are available so that you CAN play in a group if you wish.

    It is a video game. It is up to player how to play it, within the framework of the rules. And if the framework of the rules is not to the player's liking, he can and will leave for something else. Which is why MMOs have changed over time. The "forced cooperation" aspect is not popular enough. People don't want to wait for groups, they want to do quests and entertain themselves.

    As far as D&D. Of course D&D requires at least 2 people, because a DM is needed (although there were solo adventure modules too, that were a sort of "choose your own adventure" type quest, some with invisible ink, and your own "honor" to abide by the dice rolls). But a "group" of players is not required. It's not as if the game couldn't function without 2 + players and a DM. All it required was 2 players, period; a DM and a PC. And the DM tailored it to the PC or PCs, perhaps allowing NPC hirelings that both the DM and player sort of jointly controlled or scaling the dungeon to the player(s) (pretty much how our Computer DM works currently in DDO).

    How certain players prefer to play does not mean that is how the game is "supposed" to be played. Especially at all times. I prefer to play the majority of the time in the way you describe. I don't bother TRing. I like trying new quests and playing with new people.

    Most of the time.

    Other times I don't. And if DDO didn't support other playstyles, when I didn't feel like playing in a particlar playstyle, I would simply play something else. So there wouldn't be any real gain made.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post
    Yeah, okay...

    I already said that I understand why someone would want other solo-capable people in the quest with them.

    I was looking for a reason why someone who can solo the quest and has already started is only willing to accept people who can solo a tower, when (in my opinion) any non-idiot who joins is going to make the quest easier with their help. If the idea is to get it done as quickly as possible, two competent players can complete any quest in the game faster than one, so why exclude them?

    My question was never, "Why don't you allow gimps and morons to join? How would that slow you down?" I already know the answer to that.

    My question was more along the lines of: "If you are a good player who can solo, and you start the quest, and another good but perhaps not solo-tower-capable player wants to join, why wouldn't you let them?" I have yet to see a logical answer to that. The scaling answer is the only one that approaches a viable reason, but in my opinion two-man scaling versus solo scaling isn't that dramatic a difference. Especially considering that, in my question, the second person isn't just a piker who will sit at the entrance, but a good player who will help you.

    If my question offended you because you saw it as a person attack, allow me to apologize. I was seeking information, not seeking to hurt anyone's feelings.
    Because a exclusionary LFM at least attempts to relay a rule of how capable you would like someone else to be.

    You are making it far more complicated than it really is.

    The reality is that unless you know the person attempting to join you also don't know if they even meet the criteria. As far as why not just let anyone join that "isn't a complete idiot", that's fine, but where is this assumption coming from? Do you try to join such LFMs and send a tell saying "hey, I can't solo a tower, but I'm not a complete idiot, can I join?" OR do you assume that everyone with that LFM automatically will decline anyone that admits they can't solo a tower.

    For me, if I did have such an LFM up I may or may not allow any old "non-idiot" to join, depending on many factors, not the least of which is how far along I am and how many others were already in my group.

    But there are as many possible answers as there are different people who set up such LFMs in the first place. It's not like there's a hive mind of "Tower soloers" out there.

    Some are just not in the mood to be socialable and want someone who can just speed the run up by a considerable amount. They would rather have the slots available for like-minded individuals, not taken up by someone who's simply a "non-idiot".

    Maybe another person doesn't really care and and as long as you communicate they'll give you a chance.

    Who knows. I can speak for myself, but my telepathy isn't working well enough to speak for others.

    But in the end, the realquestion is; why do you care? Why are you so curious? Do you want to join a "Solo a Tower" LFM but are hesistant because you're unsure if you can or what?

  19. #79
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dravael View Post
    It's not a loot run, though...it's an XP run (as it can be the second-best XP/minute quest in the desert).
    I hope there was supposed to be smiley face at the end of that.

    When I pug, I take what I get. A bunch of TRs zerging? Sure, why not? A bunch of noobs who struggle a bit? Okay, that can be fun sometimes. If I just want to do what I want to do, I solo.

    While this specific quest is unique because of the LFM saying "be able to solo a tower", I would rather see an LFM say "vets only, please know quest well". What I really hate to see is a TR join a bunch of noobs or casual players and then zerg the quest, leaving them behind when they die trying to kill all the aggroed mobs in his wake. That's really unnecessary. And the worst part is, a lot of these newbs see that behaviour and then attempt to emulate it.

    On my current life I ran into a guy that I ran Stand Your Ground with, and he was a reasonably capable player. After we were done, I asked if he wanted to continue the chain and he said "No, I'm gonna run this 5 times hard, one more time elite, and then a couple times normal. I'm farming, not playing for fun." Seriously, this is the attitude new players can pick up. There is no need to farm any quest at that level because there are many of them. I've TR'ed many times and completely skipped that chain while still never repeating any quests. It's very sad.

    LFMs are a disaster these days, but in my case it puts some of the adventure back into old quests.

  20. #80
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    So in short, anyone who doesn't play your way is doing it wrong, and in the name of tollerance should not be tolerated?

    You are familiar with the definition of hypocrisy, are you not?

    Edit: Do you realize that if you were to put up a "non-exclusionary" "everyone stay together" lfm, you would be excluding anyone/everyone who likes to divide and conquer? food for thought...
    such a common argument.... that I should just go my own way and ignore those who have fun by not allowing others into their reindeer games.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

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