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  1. #1
    Community Member ~Keymaker's Avatar
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    Default (Orien) LFM: What do you mean "No Slackers"?!

    I don't know about other servers. But I've had tremendous success these last few months with LFMs that read, "Quick XXX, no slackers." Typically:

    EH FoT
    EH CitW
    Elite Abbot
    Elite ToD
    Elite Shroud

    Most of these runs are fast and fun. No more than 5min to form (the groups are rarely full at 12, usually 6-9), and fast completions. I usually have 3-5 guildies in the group. Some highlights include three random EH FoT PuGs where we had 0 healers and everyone was told to heal themselves. All three of those runs took less than 10min and 0 deaths.

    I usually take anyone who clicks on the LFM. I don't mind first timers. I don't even mind people who can't speak/hear English. I just ask that first-timers or those who can't hear/understand spoken English to be up front about it, so I can explain or type as needed. I can't be bothered to interview applicants (remember the Shroud, "Do you have BBs? Link please.") or screen people's YourDDO. It's a waste of my time and not fun.

    I DO MIND SLACKERS. I mean, the LFM says "no slackers." I know that even "random" PuGs, even with first timers, even with some players who can't hear or understand spoken instructions, can run quickly and efficiently. I consider that fun.

    Slackers come in all shapes and sizes. The most common form of slacking is arriving in an "off" destiny. In most cases EDs are even more important than class split. You can get more XP in two runs of any of the popular XP quests, like House of Blades (in what, 2min? 4min?) than in most raids. Come to raids in your best ED and show off! Don't come to raids in your worst ED to slack off.

    What do I do about it? Well there's really nothing I can do about it. You can't kick people who are already in the raid. But it's really easy to squelch people that have an incompatible playstyle or philosophy. I'm not out to change anyone's minds or debate anyone. That's not fun.

    I want to emphasize that I've had, especially in the last few months, especially great PuG groups. And I've been able to maximize my limited gaming time because of these "pick up groups" inbetween scheduled guild raids. But today, I had an especially bad group of five slackers in the same CitW run... including one vocally argumentative player on a melee (20rog) in Magister 2 who thought it was "unfair" that I squelched him so I could forget him and not accidentally accept him into a future LFM I host.

    I'll probably get a lot of predictable responses to this post. Here are some preemptive responses.

    (1) You're so great why do you PuG at all?
    Well it's a social game, and it's fun to PuG. I meet a lot of fine players that I don't already know. I've always been struck by how open and generous most DDO players are. I do only EE raids in all guild groups. But there's no reason not to PuG EH or Elite raids.

    (2) I'm a casual player! You must take me no matter how much I slack because otherwise I won't be able to run those raids!
    Too bad. I don't work for you. I don't work for Turbine. You have your fun. I'll have mine.

    (3) Why should I listen to instructions in raids? I've done this raid plenty of times. This raid is easy.
    Most raids require coordination. If you aren't going to listen in one raid (ignoring questions/instructions, or doing the opposite of what's asked), you will likely cause grief or failure in another raid. Most players listen to instructions or offer good suggestions. I choose not to raid with people that won't or can't listen.

    (4) If you need people in main destiny for EH you are doing something wrong...
    Yes! Because it's so wrong to (a) not want to wait an interminable amount of time waiting for a group to fill to 12, or (b) not wanting to spend forever in a raid because DPS sucks... I am totally wrong, but I just want to play well with good players who are trying to play well and considerate of other people's time.

    (5) Troll, troll, troll...
    Smurf, smurf, smurf!
    Last edited by Keymaker; 05-02-2013 at 08:37 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member dredre9987's Avatar
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    If you need people in main destiny for EH you are doing something wrong....
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Oh and honestly, you are all carrying portal beaters on your casters? What on earth are you using it on often enough to clog up your bag with it?
    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Portals.

  3. #3
    Community Member redsonjja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dredre9987 View Post
    If you need people in main destiny for EH you are doing something wrong....
    I think "need" is a strong word, but having members of the raid in their main ED does seem to speed things up

    EDIT: (figured I should elaborate): That's why I think so many people like Key's runs. They are fast. Don't get me wrong I don't mind flower sniffing at all but when you run the same raid bazillion times only because you still did not manage to pull that one item you are looking for, fast completion is a big thing. That is why having people in their main ED becomes important

    Just my 2cents.
    Last edited by redsonjja; 05-02-2013 at 06:29 PM.
    IT'S JUST A GAME...

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  4. #4
    Community Member dredre9987's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redsonjja View Post
    I think "need" is a strong word, but having members of the raid in their main ED does seem to speed things up Just my 2cents.

    Yes this is true. Definitely not needed for EH though....
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Oh and honestly, you are all carrying portal beaters on your casters? What on earth are you using it on often enough to clog up your bag with it?
    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Portals.

  5. #5
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    As a party leader I totally support you have the right to ask others to be in a destiny more suited for the character.

    I understand your basic premise. But I think it would be simpler to just say "My opinion is Raiding is not for XP Grinding".

    So yes there are other quests to run to get XP where having the your best/favorite/etc. Destiny is not needed.

    I totally agree that a player that is in a MAX'd destiny that complements their play style is in a place where they can "Show Off". However, no one person can actually pick what is the best destiny for someone else, we can speculate, we can theory craft and we can even use our own judgments - but even those won't be 100% right.

    As you commonly shortman based on the OP, I would agree being able to carry your share of the work is tantamount to success.

    I just think there are better ways than arguing with people to make that request.

  6. #6
    Community Member ~Keymaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    I totally agree that a player that is in a MAX'd destiny that complements their play style is in a place where they can "Show Off". However, no one person can actually pick what is the best destiny for someone else, we can speculate, we can theory craft and we can even use our own judgments - but even those won't be 100% right.
    Yes. I'm only expressing my opinion. I don't argue with people, and I don't try to convince anyone of anything. That would be futile, and most importantly, not fun. I do have a right not to accept people that argue with me. Because I play to have fun, not as a community service sentence for my RL crimes.

    I don't determine anyone else's "best" ED. That depends on too many factors (personal preference, playstyle, build, and raid or role). But it's easy to tell that a 20rog in Magister2 or 20ftr in Fatesinger0 is vastly under-utilizing his ED, and has chosen to contribute less than he could be, i.e. Slacker.
    Keybreaker, Leader of Over Raided (Orien)

  7. #7
    Community Member ~Gaesatae's Avatar
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    For the most part, I agree. What I find annoying is when someone complains about the XP penalty when I step out of an EE to shrine. This is almost always one of the least contributing players, who would have been unable to get past the first mob by themselves and who often die multiple times throughout the quest.

    What are they are doing complaining, when they're being carried through an EE in an off-destiny? If I'm out of SP and we are half way through the quest and my blue bar is one of the main reasons we got this far, what do they expect should happen next? We all finish out and give up? Or take a small XP hit to get carried through a quest and a chance at some EE loot?

    On the other hand though, what annoys me more are leaders who obsessivly screen for content that anyone with half a clue could solo. It really is true that for EH, it doesn't matter what destiny they are in, as long as their base character isn't totally gimped. Yes there are a few of sneaky, lying pikers who try to get carried through stuff they are too lazy to prepare for, but they aren't the majority.

    But generally people applying for content know their strengths and weaknesses, if they are that terrible then being in a main capped destiny is only going to be a marginal improvement and if a picky star can't carry a couple of gimps, then you have no business setting such strict parameters.

  8. #8
    Community Member ~Phemt's Avatar
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    LOL

    Slackers, that word make me laugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Keymaker View Post
    (1) You're so great why do you PuG at all?
    Well it's a social game, and it's fun to PuG. I meet a lot of fine players that I don't already know. I've always been struck by how open and generous most DDO players are. I do only EE raids in all guild groups. But there's no reason not to PuG EH or Elite raids.
    It's a mmorpg, why would you want to solo?

    If i would solo, i'd surely play some other game, designed to be played on single player that is surely better shaped than ddo. Cause, yes i mean this, ddo' best feature is that allow you to play with 5 other people from around the planet and see if you can give some real support to them even if you never saw those guys before.

    THAT is what being great in mmorpg means to me. And, on a side note, i really don't get all this barking about soloing, or soling = uberplayer. Why would you even want to share your opinion with others if you are so antisocial?
    Last edited by Phemt; 05-03-2013 at 07:32 PM.

  9. #9
    Micki's Delirium
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Keymaker View Post

    I usually take anyone who clicks on the LFM. I don't mind first timers. I don't even mind people who can't speak/hear English. I just ask that first-timers or those who can't hear/understand spoken English to be up front about it, so I can explain or type as needed.
    This sounds all well on paper. If it wasn't complete bs.

    I made a mistake 3 months ago and didn't heal a specific tree (I've since then ran with some awesome trees, including 2-3 man ee quests, that heal themselves), maybe showed some attitude (well, u do need attitude if u don't want to be taken advantage of in this game), and now I get declined from OR pug FoTs. Well, hell. I'll just do my own, then.
    Read my blog: Micki's Delirium
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Keymaker View Post
    The most common form of slacking is arriving in an "off" destiny. In most cases EDs are even more important than class split. You can get more XP in two runs of any of the popular XP quests, like House of Blades (in what, 2min? 4min?) than in most raids. Come to raids in your best ED and show off! Don't come to raids in your worst ED to slack off.
    Yes.

    This week: Join pug eh citw on fvs, erm 3/4 people in off destinies. " I can solo heal, but please could you ask some people to get fury ?" I sent a tell to leader. Nope, and nope, short man, couldn't even get past the first Lloth fight.
    Yesterday I join EE Stay in the inn. Leader is awesome shiradi arty, we got : lvl 21 30+lives completionist in primal avatar 1, died and died and died, legend horc monk in fire stance who runs to first mob, get damaged , then pike the rest, some "tree" ( even exploit couldn't even contribute, died and died .. )
    EE Detour on fvs again : 4 melees in some **** like primal/exalted, 1 decent blitzing jugg.
    Then I post EE Detour on monkcher , byoh , ip. I got lvl 21 barb in fury 2 " can I summon a hire ?", piking legend wizzy who never done before. Second run, I just didn't give a damn anymore.

    Never understand this. It's totally discouraging to even post the lfm when 90% of people do the same.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Micki View Post
    This sounds all well on paper. If it wasn't complete bs.

    I made a mistake 3 months ago and didn't heal a specific tree (I've since then ran with some awesome trees, including 2-3 man ee quests, that heal themselves), maybe showed some attitude (well, u do need attitude if u don't want to be taken advantage of in this game), and now I get declined from OR pug FoTs. Well, hell. I'll just do my own, then.
    It's real easy to get on his bad side apparantly , ran with him dozens of raids just fine, get accidental aggro of TO in FoT once after he drops down for the first time, and suddenly I don't listen or communicate well enough and end up /ignored, even though the raid went just fine for the rest and we completed with relatively little issues.

    Either way, I do agree that arriving in a "good" destiny (and not a leveling destiny) for a raid, and listening to instructions when given by a party leader, should be common place for raids, even though mistakes and accidents can always happen.
    Last edited by Forgeborn; 06-05-2013 at 08:00 PM.

  12. #12
    Community Member susiedupfer's Avatar
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    Bottom line: You post the LFM, you set the conditions. If someone demonstrates behavior inconsistent with the conditions, or proves to not be capable of following instructions in a group setting, you decide not to repeat the experience. Nothing personal, nothing bad about it.
    Orien: Zizie, Zeelee, Zeeny, Zeety, Zeleste, Zeeby
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  13. #13
    Uber Completionist
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    Quote Originally Posted by susiedupfer View Post
    Bottom line: You post the LFM, you set the conditions. If someone demonstrates behavior inconsistent with the conditions, or proves to not be capable of following instructions in a group setting, you decide not to repeat the experience. Nothing personal, nothing bad about it.
    Amen.

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