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  1. #21
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    Smile Exploration

    One of the things I enjoy most about DDO is the diversity of its player base. When so many people of such varied cultures can get together to have a good time, it makes the world seem a friendlier place.

    If I see text in chat that I don't understand, I have two options: Ignore it, or research it. I find the latter to be more fun.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilbar View Post
    I could gush for ages about Admiral Yi. He's probably the greatest naval mind in human history. Makes Lord Nelson look like a seasick landlubber.
    There's a book named as A Diary during War(Nanjung ilgi) he wrote. We can see his normal being side from that as he wrote some lines we can know he got despaired and... something bad feeling. but even he didn't run away from his challenge, I would suicide perhaps, If I was. because of this, I pay my tribute of praise for him really.

    Quote Originally Posted by lusteen View Post
    /signed
    add the fonts.

    i wont understand a thing but *reading* (looking at) another alphabet is already traveling for me.
    no wonder we are enthraled by *elven*, *dwarven* runes...

    the 2 foreign languages i picked up at school beside english were russian & greek, *because* they were so mysterious.

    by the way, i do love to learn a word or two from a foreign language, part of traveling from my armchair thing.
    be nice, learn to say *hi* in as many languages as you can, its an bondmaker.
    I want to write HI in Korean, but input or font system of new forum looks got trouble. :/
    Politely "Annyonghaseyo", and simply "annyong" as possible as I can.

    btw, I learned Russian characters once like the reason of you. It's looks like upsided-down English alphabet.. so fun. lol

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    Has anyone considered setting up a teamspeak or some other free service (whatever the Korean version of such is?) to use to communicate? TeamSpeak allows both verbal and written communication, and I would think would be easy for user to install their fonts if they're not already there.

    It's not a perfect solution, it would require a separate program on the side that people would have to call up to see the text only users, but it is a much better voice chat program and has a lot of benefits to offer (like being able to individually adjust the sound on my end so I can turn loud mics down and soft ones up). And since it's unlikely that the font will be installed at this time, I suggest it because I personally would want workaround solutions offered to me, and I mean no disrespect nor do I address whether it's 'fair' or not between WB/Turbine and non-English users. I prefer practicality to philosopy.
    yeah, already suggested about IRC(voice chat is not needed as there's in game system.), and noticed a function which keep it the front of windows. but They don't use that because It's difficult to use... I thought It's greatest solution ever, but... *sigh*

  4. #24
    Community Member marciosilva's Avatar
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    I would go a step ahead, they need to correct fonts used here in the forum too, if I'm not mistaken.

    I don't have a clue on how to call the OP name. The only thing I see are 3 interrogation marks "???" as his name.

    I wonder if this is more embarassing for Turbine or for this user.

    *sigh
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  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Normalerweise View Post
    One of the things I enjoy most about DDO is the diversity of its player base. When so many people of such varied cultures can get together to have a good time, it makes the world seem a friendlier place.

    If I see text in chat that I don't understand, I have two options: Ignore it, or research it. I find the latter to be more fun.
    Completely agree here, I am in A Filipino guild, 99% of my guild mates are in the Philippines (Play on Sarlona obviously). Although they can and do speak English, we normally speak and type in Tagalog. Now I am French Canadian, my wife is Filipina and I have picked up Tagalog as my third language (I fluently speak French and English). The main reason I joined Filipino guild is for the ability to learn and practice another language, make friends and expand my horizons.

    I would love to see enabling the UI so that we can have more players coming to the game from other nationalities so we can have a larger playerbase and have the ability to appreciate other languages and cultures.

  6. #26
    Community Member Blue100000005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagtit_Ni_Sarlona View Post
    Completely agree here, I am in A Filipino guild, 99% of my guild mates are in the Philippines (Play on Sarlona obviously). Although they can and do speak English, we normally speak and type in Tagalog. Now I am French Canadian, my wife is Filipina and I have picked up Tagalog as my third language (I fluently speak French and English). The main reason I joined Filipino guild is for the ability to learn and practice another language, make friends and expand my horizons.

    I would love to see enabling the UI so that we can have more players coming to the game from other nationalities so we can have a larger playerbase and have the ability to appreciate other languages and cultures.
    Dumb question, why is it obvious you play on sarlona if from the phillipines?
    "Eye of the Dragon" on Argonessen. "Quest with the best"


  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by marciosilva View Post
    I would go a step ahead, they need to correct fonts used here in the forum too, if I'm not mistaken.

    I don't have a clue on how to call the OP name. The only thing I see are 3 interrogation marks "???" as his name.

    I wonder if this is more embarassing for Turbine or for this user.

    *sigh
    I put my new nickname as Korean characters. It was joking but worked... and those characters are not appeared on the new forum. You can call me as "Targal"

  8. #28
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    Agreed. Actually, I don't think this will break community... as he said, there's always some ppl who can't use English. I think that is another problem away from this.

  9. #29
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    Default Plenty of standard fonts that have Asian characters

    There are a lot of Unicode fonts that have the characters needed to include Asian languages. Arial MS and MS Mincho are just two that come included with Windows OS.

  10. #30
    Community Member ~Gaeryus's Avatar
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    The problem is that Turbine, and probably most corporations, still follow the rule that English is the international language. This is now quite outdated, and does not correspond to reality in terms of business volume.

    I predict that soon, Chinese will be the new international language. Or maybe a solution like Esperanto.

    Carry on.



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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ??? View Post
    ...

    This problem is not from input system, It's because of font in the game. We can type as our languages well, but typed word becomes "??????." you can see a screenshot below... I don't think putting new characters to the font doesn't cost terribly, but this would make new people who have potentials to purchase the game. at least you can have that reason to do this.
    ...
    You mix font with character set. While the font itself may support additional characters the underlying system doesn't necessarily. Reason is that in the first ASCII character set one only had about 255 different characters, which also included some special characters like 10 & 13 for linefeed and carriage return (Lookup the windows Terminal font). This ASCII character set also included some common European characters.

    To handle different countries and their different character needs additional character sets had been introduced. For example big5 (Chinese Traditional), euc-kr (Korean) while most western products usually use iso-8859-1 (Western Alphabet), iso-8859-2 (Central European Alphabet) or their equivalent in windows aka windows-1250. This character set is usually fix and you can't switch in between them nor directly translate them.

    To handle transitions we now also have UTF-8 (Universal Alphabet) but it is still limited to 256 characters and may need some additional control, e.g. may need a header (BOM) to indicate UTF.

    To use the full option of character sets one would need to use UTF-16, which mean that each character is not represented by 8 but 16 bit, allowing up to 64K different characters. However you can't just translate your source code in one click from ISO-8859-1 into UTF-16 as for example all functions that read and write configuration files would need to handle now two bytes for each character instead of one.

    To conclude, your font (e.g. Verdana) may provide for each character code in UTF-16 a graphical description, that however doesn't mean your software support multibyte characters. Either it will strip out the higher byte, or will treat each byte as a single character, which then lead on the other end to garbage text displayed with '?' for wrong characters.
    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue100000005 View Post
    Dumb question, why is it obvious you play on sarlona if from the phillipines?
    Not a dumb question, ever since I satrted playing DDO i noticed that Sarlona has a very large asian population (Chinese, Korean, and Filipino from my experience) compared to other servers I played on.

    It's obvious for probably me and other liked minded individuals, most likley not for the general server population because i specificaly sought out Filipino players. on all servers before settling on Sarlona I know of 2 guilds, ours on Sarlona and Far East Movement on Orien
    Last edited by Bagtit_Ni_Sarlona; 05-09-2013 at 12:28 PM.

  13. #33
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    /signed

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisAmethyst View Post
    You mix font with character set. While the font itself may support additional characters the underlying system doesn't necessarily. Reason is that in the first ASCII character set one only had about 255 different characters, which also included some special characters like 10 & 13 for linefeed and carriage return (Lookup the windows Terminal font). This ASCII character set also included some common European characters.

    To handle different countries and their different character needs additional character sets had been introduced. For example big5 (Chinese Traditional), euc-kr (Korean) while most western products usually use iso-8859-1 (Western Alphabet), iso-8859-2 (Central European Alphabet) or their equivalent in windows aka windows-1250. This character set is usually fix and you can't switch in between them nor directly translate them.

    To handle transitions we now also have UTF-8 (Universal Alphabet) but it is still limited to 256 characters and may need some additional control, e.g. may need a header (BOM) to indicate UTF.

    To use the full option of character sets one would need to use UTF-16, which mean that each character is not represented by 8 but 16 bit, allowing up to 64K different characters. However you can't just translate your source code in one click from ISO-8859-1 into UTF-16 as for example all functions that read and write configuration files would need to handle now two bytes for each character instead of one.

    To conclude, your font (e.g. Verdana) may provide for each character code in UTF-16 a graphical description, that however doesn't mean your software support multibyte characters. Either it will strip out the higher byte, or will treat each byte as a single character, which then lead on the other end to garbage text displayed with '?' for wrong characters.
    This is not a problem from byte system. The game uses Unicode currently showing full-character - of course, if It had fonts to show -, so you can find it out by writting them to game which can show you "????", then copying them from chat window to out-game. They just didn't contain some characters at the game. I can show you It's right if you want.

    and I didn't say anything from translation. I said only chatting system.
    They don't have any limit like 256 of ASCII. then why dose russian and greek shown? They're not ASCII...

    or you can say It's added to ASCII. but Russian(=Greek) ASCII and English ASCII are different things.


    to font, Verdana is only for showing English part, not shoing foreign characters. They just can added more characters to Verdana they using currently.

  15. #35
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    I imagine that those who say that they can't moderate in another language are correct. In addition, the filter will not work in another language.

    I'm sure that eventually they will develop game chat to automatically translate to and from other language characters, but unfortunately I don't see it in this game unless it lasts a lot longer. Hopefully it will

  16. #36
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Ladders are still kicking our ass and you have hope of a language barrier being lifted? lol sonny boy I do admire your hope.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    I imagine that those who say that they can't moderate in another language are correct. In addition, the filter will not work in another language.

    I'm sure that eventually they will develop game chat to automatically translate to and from other language characters, but unfortunately I don't see it in this game unless it lasts a lot longer. Hopefully it will
    Well, that's true. unpleasurable words from other language will be not filtered. yes. but, I don't think you can find out that's improper words... and those who saying that words, you don't need to give them your interest.
    by the way, DDO is currently serviced for German and French, but I'm not sure their words can be filtered. lol

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    Ladders are still kicking our ass and you have hope of a language barrier being lifted? lol sonny boy I do admire your hope.
    at least doing something like this is better than nothing. I just wanna take an answer from developers. :/

  19. #39
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    I write applications that are used in multiple languages.

    First, Turbine might not be able to add fonts to the chat system because it very well may be a third-party product that they purchsed licneses for, and it may have limitations.

    Second, Greek and Russian characters may be supported because the font they use supports them. Notice that you can only use Veranda. Most of the fonts are Truetype fonts, and it is not really all that difficult to substitute one for another. But, the problem comes in when you start doing sizing and different screen resolutions. You start getting characters cut off at the top, bottom, or whereever.

    Third, it may have something to do with the way the chat data is sent to and from a destination. My thought is that there is some sort of SOAP or XML involved, and the header on those things can be codepage-specific. Meaning that if I have an XML format that stores French / Spanish characters in text, you must apply a specific codepage value to the XML so that it can be parsed correctly (I'm not a huge XML expert when it comes to this, but I have run up against this problem in the past on a few projects).

    Lastly, that chat area contains both user chat text AND messages from the servers and the game itself (not to mention the general chat area). This means that for all of this to work, you're going to have a seperate set of game text for each language, which is possible. However, if you are in a quest with other non-Korean / Japanese / Chinese speakers, your chat text will not translate, and will show up as complete garbage on the other end of the pipe.

    The only real resolution to most of this is to have servers for specific regions of the globe, and anyone who wants to run on that region must have a PC configured to use the native locale information for that server region - no crossing over to other servers. I don't think that will work well with a truly global MMO. It means that Korean players cannot play with English-speakers, and people in Greece cannot play with Japanese players, and so on. And if there is not a huge population in a specific region to justify the costs of a game server, then you don't get DDO.

    So there will be limitations.

    This has nothing to do with what is fair.

    A potential solution is for Turbine to open up a secondary chat API that allows some third-party developer to create something that can address the language problem for a specific region. So you'd end up with two in-game chat solutions: one that is a "global" chat that handles the public areas, guild chat, and party chat, and a second chat that can be purchased as an add-on (or downloaded freeware piece) so that Koreans can chat easily with other Koreans, Afghanis with other Afghanis, and people who understand ancient Cuniform writing other other people who understand ancient Cuniform writing (I hope I spelled that correctly). Much in the same way people use Ventrillo for voice chat, except integrated with the game.

    But having them do this in-game would be a frickin' nightmare for the reasons I described above. It is NOT as easy as adding a font to a selection menu. There are other considerations.

  20. #40
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    I understand the original post and empathize with the original poster. However, I disagree with them.

    A game that is, by design, international in scope will attract players who are international in scope. Those players will group together and those players must be able to communicate with one another.

    In such situations it is entirely reasonable to select a dominant language and to enforce its use for all communications. In fact, it can be considered very rude to communicate in a language other than the default as this intentionally excludes portions of the gaming populace.

    Now, I understand that Turbine has portions of the forums open to non-English language posts. I will not speculate on the rationale for this. It could be a market driven decision. It could be a language fluency decision. It could be a misguided romanticism with a particular language or culture. Regardless of the cause the existence of these non-English forum areas do not automatically constitute a precedent regarding the inclusion of other languages.

    Similarly, the font decisions internal to the game do not automatically constitute a precedent or support for non-English communication via in-game chat. To the contrary, this is just a by-product of the font selection which is made on the basis of readability and aesthetics rather than on the alphabet sets that are supported.

    DDO happens to be a game developed in a predominantly English speaking nation for a predominantly English speaking audience. Unless there is a business case to be made for inclusion of additional chat fonts/alphabets there seems little reason to support the original poster's request.

    That may seem insensitive or undiplomatic. However, the bottom line driving Turbine should be whether it is a financially responsible and lucrative investment. This is what enables DDO to continue and what will determine its future.
    Last edited by Therigar; 05-18-2013 at 09:37 AM.

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