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  1. #1
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Default One Fund ribbon issue

    When Turbine participated in the Extra Life charity drive, you remember the one where Tolero was giving away the 'Hero' title and a wolf pup, all the pertinent information we would need was provided and easily accessible. The Extra Life website, it's charitable licence #, the Turbine member page showing us $s raised, and of course the ability to receive a tax receipt.

    Now we have this One Fund Ribbon deal. No link to the One Fund site, no licence number, no confirmation that Turbine is actually a registered participant, and no tax receipt.

    Turbine: What is the deal here? Your trust factor is way down right now, and although your heart might be in the right place, your implementation of this event is VERY weak. Please take the time to re-do this properly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

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    Cordovan has said (in the main thread about the ribbons) that Turbine is donating to the One Fund, but the size of the donation has nothing to do with how many ribbons people pay for. If you get 10 ribbons for free, or 10 ribbons for 100 points each, or 0 ribbons, or 3,914 ribbons... it will make no difference whatsoever.

    So, really, no need for any of the things you listed 8-}
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    When Turbine participated in the Extra Life charity drive, you remember the one where Tolero was giving away the 'Hero' title and a wolf pup, all the pertinent information we would need was provided and easily accessible. The Extra Life website, it's charitable licence #, the Turbine member page showing us $s raised, and of course the ability to receive a tax receipt.Now we have this One Fund Ribbon deal. No link to the One Fund site, no licence number, no confirmation that Turbine is actually a registered participant, and no tax receipt.Turbine: What is the deal here? Your trust factor is way down right now, and although your heart might be in the right place, your implementation of this event is VERY weak. Please take the time to re-do this properly.
    Actually there is a link to the one fund site..... http://www.ddo.com/en/news/one-fund-memorial-ribbon

  4. #4
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LrdSlvrhnd View Post
    Cordovan has said (in the main thread about the ribbons) that Turbine is donating to the One Fund, but the size of the donation has nothing to do with how many ribbons people pay for. If you get 10 ribbons for free, or 10 ribbons for 100 points each, or 0 ribbons, or 3,914 ribbons... it will make no difference whatsoever.

    So, really, no need for any of the things you listed 8-}
    Maybe there's no 'legal' need, but if I'm being told that I can PURCHASE a ribbon, and that Turbine will be supporting the One Fund charity, it stands to reason that we ought to have a tax receipt available. It follows that we should be able to confirm that Turbine is a registered participant.

    Or, is it Turbine that will getting a tax receipt? How much are they donating? What percentage of our Ribbon purchases are going towards that donation? How do we know ANYTHING about what they're doing here? If I'm going to pay real money for a charitable event, and Turbine gets the tax receipt, that seems pretty weak. If I'm going to CONSIDER paying real money for a charitable event, I want some assurances about where my money is going. It behooves Turbine to make that information available to us.

  5. #5
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smatt View Post
    Actually there is a link to the one fund site..... http://www.ddo.com/en/news/one-fund-memorial-ribbon
    Ah, yes. That was posted 4hrs ago. This issue came to mind last night and this a.m. and I apologize that i didn't see it today before posting. However, the link to the One Fund site that that news item references has zero info about Turbine's participation. More to the point, I can easily donate to One Fund right from their site, and get my own tax receipt, than go through Turbine with no receipt and no idea IF my money is going towards the charity.

    Here's a scenario:
    A number of people BUY ribbons from Turbine: Turbine makes money.
    Turbine donates to a charity and gets a tax break for it: Turbine loses nothing.

    It just doesn't seem to be all above board, and maybe that's just because I don't have enough information to properly judge. I'm comparing to the Extra Life event, which had all the info I needed to tell that it was legit. In comparison, this just seems shady.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    When Turbine participated in the Extra Life charity drive, you remember the one where Tolero was giving away the 'Hero' title and a wolf pup, all the pertinent information we would need was provided and easily accessible. The Extra Life website, it's charitable licence #, the Turbine member page showing us $s raised, and of course the ability to receive a tax receipt.

    Now we have this One Fund Ribbon deal. No link to the One Fund site, no licence number, no confirmation that Turbine is actually a registered participant, and no tax receipt.
    There was also a great deal of time to set that up, get all parties up to speed, and time before hand to lay everything out.

    This, on the other hand, is being done as a reaction to something that happened very close to home. You can not expect the same kinds of pre-planning. It takes a lot of time to work all of that out, time that is not really something that can be given when responding to a crisis that just happened.

  7. #7
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    Ah, yes. That was posted 4hrs ago. This issue came to mind last night and this a.m. and I apologize that i didn't see it today before posting. However, the link to the One Fund site that that news item references has zero info about Turbine's participation. More to the point, I can easily donate to One Fund right from their site, and get my own tax receipt, than go through Turbine with no receipt and no idea IF my money is going towards the charity.

    Here's a scenario:
    A number of people BUY ribbons from Turbine: Turbine makes money.
    Turbine donates to a charity and gets a tax break for it: Turbine loses nothing.

    It just doesn't seem to be all above board, and maybe that's just because I don't have enough information to properly judge. I'm comparing to the Extra Life event, which had all the info I needed to tell that it was legit. In comparison, this just seems shady.
    Read what cordovan wrote nothing you purchase has anything to do with there donation.

    I don't see your issue they stated what they where doing. NOTHING from the store sales (which we get 10 free and with that no money spent unless do on own which makes no sense to when get 10 free) is going to there donation and so no tax right off for you.

    Now saying all that I don't like the way they implemented it either, but they have done nothing wrong and posted all you need.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    What percentage of our Ribbon purchases are going towards that donation?
    0%. Sales of the ribbon have NO impact on the donation. They're donating X amount, regardless of how many ribbons they sell. Largely *because* of the whole tax/donation issue. Which makes the ribbons a show of solidarity (and a cool glowy thing on your shoulder), but not in any way, shape or form a donation. And they have technical issues putting free/1 TP stuff in the store - although they really should make the "BOSTON" code 1) unlimited, and 2) listed in the item description.

    If I'm going to pay real money for a charitable event, and Turbine gets the tax receipt, that seems pretty weak. If I'm going to CONSIDER paying real money for a charitable event, I want some assurances about where my money is going. It behooves Turbine to make that information available to us.
    Your money's going to Turbine. So, don't pay real money for the ribbon.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...t=#post4994950 - Cordovan saying "don't purchase with TP to donate"

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post4994129 - Cordovan saying ribbons have nothing to do with their donation.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LrdSlvrhnd View Post
    And they have technical issues putting free/1 TP stuff in the store - although they really should make the "BOSTON" code 1) unlimited, and 2) listed in the item description.
    I can see maybe why free might not be supported, but why can't they make something 1 TP? Did they actually say this?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    Maybe there's no 'legal' need, but if I'm being told that I can PURCHASE a ribbon, and that Turbine will be supporting the One Fund charity, it stands to reason that we ought to have a tax receipt available. It follows that we should be able to confirm that Turbine is a registered participant.

    Or, is it Turbine that will getting a tax receipt? How much are they donating? What percentage of our Ribbon purchases are going towards that donation? How do we know ANYTHING about what they're doing here? If I'm going to pay real money for a charitable event, and Turbine gets the tax receipt, that seems pretty weak. If I'm going to CONSIDER paying real money for a charitable event, I want some assurances about where my money is going. It behooves Turbine to make that information available to us.
    Since it is possible to get points without spending money, under the US tax code you can't claim a donation for buying a ribbon with points (ignoring the free ribbons). Even if start with no points, spend $US to buy points then immediately buy ribbons the IRS will claim you are spending favor earned points on the ribbons and the $US bought points were spent on account upgrades/etc.

    If you want a receipt send your money directly to the fund.

  11. #11
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    The One Fund Ribbon has always said to show your support and to raise awareness about the charity. It has never said that it is directly tied to the charity or that it makes any donation to the charity. It is basically Turbine using their dev time to create a giant (or shoulder height ) billboard that says the charity exists.

    I also equate it to them giving us who live in Boston, to people who were effected or have family and friends affected or anyone who wants to show support a kind of black armband to show support and respect for those lost and those who helped. Heck it even created some solidarity between Red Sox and Yankee fans. It is now raining cats and dogs Egon. We have crossed the streams.

    It is crazy how bent out of shape people are getting. You want a receipt for your 100 turbine points? What is that worth in USD? Depending on if you got it on a double point sale maybe $0.70. Go take that to your accountant and ask him if you are now eligible to receive a tax break for a charitable transaction. I will tell you right now that you are not. Even if you bought all 10 of them.

    Turbine spent time and money on a ribbon they didn't have to do to create awareness of the charity and it may have possibly led to people who were not aware of it before to go and make a real (not $0.70) donation. For which they will get a receipt. On top of that Turbine is or will make a donation. So two potentially good things can come from this, all of which help out those in need. The down side it that you don't get a receipt for $0.70 and you somehow feel your pain and suffering of being wronged in how it was worded supersedes the awareness created by this event Turbine has done that may have actually raised real money to help people effected. Just outrageous.

    I'll share a quick story. A few days after the bombing I was outside of Fenway Park going to a Sox game. (I usually go to about 10-12 a year). A guy is walking around through the crowds handing out free "Boston Strong" yellow wrist bands to raise awareness. They don't cost anything. He isn't asking for money. If he had asked for $0.50 I'd have given him the $1 for me and my wife. I mean those things cost something and here he is walking around giving them out for free. I said thanks and put it on. Now it was a little tight. I'm not bragging but I have big arms/wrists (infer what you like ). However I didn't go back and complain to the guy. Even if I had paid the $0.50 I wouldn't have. Instead I left it on and walked around the Park and later around Boston with it. Happy to show support, be part of something. Whatever. End of story.

    In short 1) relax. 2) As a resident of Boston thank you Turbine.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LrdSlvrhnd View Post
    And they have technical issues putting free/1 TP stuff in the store - although they really should make the "BOSTON" code 1) unlimited, and 2) listed in the item description.
    I just checked the store and I see them selling a lv 1 barbarian hireling for 5 tp. So even if for some reason they cant set the price to 0 or 1 TP, they can set it to 5 TP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MntMan View Post
    As a resident of Boston thank you Turbine.
    Really? So you don't mind Turbine making a profit off of mass murders. How odd.

    Look, Turbine goofed big time. Everyone with a brain, including them, knows it now. What I can't figure out is why they don't just come out and say that they will refund the TP for anyone who paid. If they never intended to keep the TP and profit from this (and they probably didn't) then they have no reason not to make things right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_ View Post
    Really? So you don't mind Turbine making a profit off of mass murders. How odd.
    Wow. I never really get fired up about online garbage, and I don't care if I get a forum ban, but get lost. Leave. People like you are not wanted here. You're really going to take my post an try and associate me with some degenerate statement. You really either are immature or you just think that one upping everyone and twisting words is some sort of great sport. I used to play hoops with a guy who lost his leg in the attack. Do you really think that I'm for mass murder? Or that I find anything OK with what happened that day. You insensitive self absorbed %$!@ (Self edited for content).

    I know someone who lost big time that day and I think what Turbine intended to do, despite the fact that people don't know how to read even though it was written quite plainly (I didn't pay with points, but have my ribbons), was a good thing. The idea was to make people aware of the fund and what happened. Overall it would hopefully generate more money by raising awareness and directing people to the One Fund site. I'll bet you didn't even spend turbine points on it, nor most the people complaining or are somehow offended. People just love to complain and jump on a bandwagon.

    I hope all you people who take such offense to their acts pack up and go. We're better off without you.

    As for my forum decor I apologize to the rest for the outburst. Hopefully the absolute asinine comment I was going off on and the closeness to home with me personally allows for some levity in doling out punishment. If not then so be it.

    At the end of the year Turbine's gain/loss sheet will have X in profit and Y in expenses. Despite the $0.70 some of you contributed to "profit" I would bet that their profit margins will be lower as a result of their own donation. How is that profiting? Regardless no good deed goes unpunished. As for the poster I quoted. Shame on you and trying to associate me with siding with some horrific event.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MntMan View Post
    Wow. I never really get fired up about online garbage, and I don't care if I get a forum ban, but get lost. Leave. People like you are not wanted here. You're really going to take my post an try and associate me with some degenerate statement. You really either are immature or you just think that one upping everyone and twisting words is some sort of great sport. I used to play hoops with a guy who lost his leg in the attack. Do you really think that I'm for mass murder? Or that I find anything OK with what happened that day. You insensitive self absorbed %$!@ (Self edited for content).

    I know someone who lost big time that day and I think what Turbine intended to do, despite the fact that people don't know how to read even though it was written quite plainly (I didn't pay with points, but have my ribbons), was a good thing. The idea was to make people aware of the fund and what happened. Overall it would hopefully generate more money by raising awareness and directing people to the One Fund site. I'll bet you didn't even spend turbine points on it, nor most the people complaining or are somehow offended. People just love to complain and jump on a bandwagon.

    I hope all you people who take such offense to their acts pack up and go. We're better off without you.

    As for my forum decor I apologize to the rest for the outburst. Hopefully the absolute asinine comment I was going off on and the closeness to home with me personally allows for some levity in doling out punishment. If not then so be it.

    At the end of the year Turbine's gain/loss sheet will have X in profit and Y in expenses. Despite the $0.70 some of you contributed to "profit" I would bet that their profit margins will be lower as a result of their own donation. How is that profiting? Regardless no good deed goes unpunished. As for the poster I quoted. Shame on you and trying to associate me with siding with some horrific event.
    Should probably just use the report button. We do have some pretty heated conversations on these old repainted forums from time to time, but they usually dont ridicule someones position regarding a recent real life tragic event.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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    True. I guess I just let it get to me and I shouldn't have. My bad and again I apologize to the rest of the community for reacting as I did. I'm through posting to this thread. Already heated enough for me and it will probably be closed soon.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyMe View Post
    I can see maybe why free might not be supported, but why can't they make something 1 TP? Did they actually say this?
    I think that when they set a item price at 1TP people spam buy and the activity crashes the store.

    At least I recall that being an issue in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by MntMan View Post
    Do you really think that I'm for mass murder?
    See, I didn't read that into Loriens comments at all.

    It seemed like Lorien was asking if it bothered you that the profits for the ribbon were going to Turbine profits rather than to The One Fund.

    I could be wrong but even so I'm just going to go ahead and assume that no one here supports the bombings and that everyone here wishes nothing but the best for the people of Boston.

    I know myself, I haven't enjoyed the implication that I don't support The One Fund because I pointed out that anyone of at least a dozen ways Turbine could have set this up would have avoided all of the confusion and questions in the first place.

    Yeah it bothers me that the profits are going to Turbine and not to Boston but it sure isn't worth all of this Brouhaha over the IMO poor symbolism of Turbine keeping the ribbon profits. (yes i know they donated)

    I guess what's done is done and it's not going to change so to continue the argument is moot and maybe it's best I concentrate on whats good about the ribbon and forget the sloppy details of how they are offering it.

    But for those continuing the argument, let's maybe give each other the benefit of the doubt that we are all caring human beings who oppose the evil of the bombings and support the healing of the Boston community.

    My prayers and best wishes to your injured friend and to you and your family as you move forward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_ View Post
    Really? So you don't mind Turbine making a profit off of mass murders. How odd.
    In so far as the One Ribbon/Cloak goes...
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience
    This is a thread about charity and comfort.

    If you wish to advance a personal agenda here I wold strongly advise against it.
    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...42#post6768242
    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...93#post6768193

    So do us a favor about this particular topic. Shut it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phillymiket View Post
    I think that when they set a item price at 1TP people spam buy and the activity crashes the store.

    At least I recall that being an issue in the past.
    If that's the case, they could've set the price to 2 TP. At worst, they can set it to 5 TP (same price as some of their lv1 hirelings). There's really no reason to set the price to 100 TP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissingMinds View Post
    In so far as the One Ribbon/Cloak goes...


    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...42#post6768242
    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...93#post6768193

    So do us a favor about this particular topic. Shut it.

    My opinion is a personal agenda and his opinion isn't?

    I usually expect better from you MM.

    I've acknowledge quite clearly, in the post this guy freaked about, that Turbine almost certainly meant well. I'm just asking them to take the steps so no one is even accidentally mislead by communications that Turbine employees have agreed were not ideally done.
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