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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjflanigan View Post
    The biggest thing I enjoy with Neverwinter is the foundry and the ability to create my own dungeons and campaigns. That is full of win in my book.

    -JJ
    You can create your own dungeons in a game where any self respecting DnD player would not be caught dead...

    Neverwinter should call itself WoW Champions or Might and Magic Champions or any other DnD spin off Champions because console Baldurs Gate had more character option..a crucial DnD feature.

    I am absolutely amazed that they took this long to come out with this...thing.

    Is DDO better than this garbage? Yes. But are you still paying for garbage...I guess that's for you to decide, I know where I stand.
    Last edited by Disgruntled175; 05-04-2013 at 11:47 AM.

  2. #42

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    A few more observations from 2nd day of playing NWO.

    The social system is a mess.

    There is no division of channels (that i could find) so there is so much spam that any question you may ask scrolls away before anyone can see it.

    There is no grouping system that i can see aside from putting LFG in chat or blind inviting someone standing next to you at a quest.

    The areas seem much more realistically set up. Each zone doesn't feel as bottled.

    The transitions from public to 'explorer' zones seems smoother.

    The quests are just plain simple and surprisingly short.

    There is almost nothing to think about or figure out.

    I can't find difficulty settings. I hope there are some because as it is it is very easy. I have died once due to AFK at the wrong place but otherwise have not in any way felt threatened in leveling a few characters to 10-15.

    The AI is far simpler for the mobs as is the spawn mechanisms which both makes it more boring but seems to make for less lag (at least for me - others complain.)

    It's just not finished. It's missing classes, details, any kind of social system.

    If there were more classes, feats, spells, attacks and do-dads it would feel better.

    As it is now I have been able to make a healing cleric, a dps cleric, a dps tank, a tank tank, a gimp melee, a cool rogue, and a generic wizard. I can't find a way to tweak any other ways to build with the tools offered.

    Also the pay options are very overt.

    For example you get these boxes that appear in your inventory that spawn random loot in them that may be better than regular drop loot.

    You have to buy keys with RL cash to open the boxes to get the loot.

    You can't throw away the boxes. They just sit there in your inventory taking space and 'tempting' you to buy keys.

    Respec'ing costs $$ as do many other things. (i think you can earn respec's with gameplay also - not sure)

    You don't need these items but the game feels like it puts buy options in your face much more than DDO.

    Basically, it seems real easy to jump in. It's pretty looking. It's very limiting.

    I highly doubt this will be taking away from my DDO time but can see some possibilities when they finish it.
    Last edited by phillymiket; 05-04-2013 at 12:34 PM.
    BONGO FURY - Ghallanda - Thingfish - Wizard, Diuni - Ninja, Gheale - Angel, Dullknife - Tank, Noodlefish - Gimp, Jaquaby - Treacherous and other gimps I won't cop to.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris_Discordia View Post
    The point being, NW is immediately obvious as being a Dungeons and Dragons game, this world Eberron is not. It will appeal to some, just as some just 'put up' with the eberron world here, as there is no other choice.
    Maybe if you're familiar with 4th edition? Personally if it did not have familiar d&d names on things I would not have recognized Neverwinter as a D&D game as opposed to generic fantasy game X.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrelarVersion2 View Post
    Maybe if you're familiar with 4th edition? Personally if it did not have familiar d&d names on things I would not have recognized Neverwinter as a D&D game as opposed to generic fantasy game X.
    My Magic-User didn't get one-shotted by a house cat, so NWO didn't seem like D&D to me.

  5. #45
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillymiket View Post
    A few more observations from 2nd day of playing NWO.

    The social system is a mess.

    There is no division of channels (that i could find) so there is so much spam that any question you may ask scrolls away before anyone can see it.

    There is no grouping system that i can see aside from putting LFG in chat or blind inviting someone standing next to you at a quest.

    The areas seem much more realistically set up. Each zone doesn't feel as bottled.

    The transitions from public to 'explorer' zones seems smoother.

    The quests are just plain simple and surprisingly short.

    There is almost nothing to think about or figure out.

    I can't find difficulty settings. I hope there are some because as it is it is very easy. I have died once due to AFK at the wrong place but otherwise have not in any way felt threatened in leveling a few characters to 10-15.

    The AI is far simpler for the mobs as is the spawn mechanisms which both makes it more boring but seems to make for less lag (at least for me - others complain.)

    It's just not finished. It's missing classes, details, any kind of social system.

    If there were more classes, feats, spells, attacks and do-dads it would feel better.

    As it is now I have been able to make a healing cleric, a dps cleric, a dps tank, a tank tank, a gimp melee, a cool rogue, and a generic wizard. I can't find a way to tweak any other ways to build with the tools offered.

    Also the pay options are very overt.

    For example you get these boxes that appear in your inventory that spawn random loot in them that may be better than regular drop loot.

    You have to buy keys with RL cash to open the boxes to get the loot.

    You can't throw away the boxes. They just sit there in your inventory taking space and 'tempting' you to buy keys.

    Respec'ing costs $$ as do many other things. (i think you can earn respec's with gameplay also - not sure)

    You don't need these items but the game feels like it puts buy options in your face much more than DDO.

    Basically, it seems real easy to jump in. It's pretty looking. It's very limiting.

    I highly doubt this will be taking away from my DDO time but can see some possibilities when they finish it.
    I also understand that Quest loot, from chests, is a horrid system.

    One chest, first person to open can see and take all the loot and not leave anything for anyone else. Nobody else can open the chest until the first person closes it and they will not get any loot unless the first person leaves any.

    Ripe for abuse and flashbacks to the Raid Token system.

    Screw that.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  6. #46
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    I also understand that Quest loot, from chests, is a horrid system.

    One chest, first person to open can see and take all the loot and not leave anything for anyone else. Nobody else can open the chest until the first person closes it and they will not get any loot unless the first person leaves any.

    Ripe for abuse and flashbacks to the Raid Token system.

    Screw that.
    Similar to DDO in the old days you mean? They do have a few things to learn about loot systems and I hope they learn quickly. Like before they start putting in raids quickly.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  7. #47
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    Cryptic updates once a week in most of their games. Many of these problems are going to go away eventually. To me a lot of the criticism sounds pretty defensive anyway. Ultimately, the question isn't so much how true the game is to Gamer X's memories of his or her beloved D&D but how good a game it is on its own merits--and to a lesser extent how successful it is at attracting and retaining players.

  8. #48
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    The funnest thing about NWO I've found is Tiefling Playable Race. Everything else is just WoW. Stupid scavenger hunt non-instanced boredom. Stand and fight / Stand and cast is just SO lame. Loot stealing is also not good.

    As for the non-existent grouping options people are complaining about, well, the Social panel is 'O' just like in DDO. Pretty easy to make/find LFMs without looking at the crammed chat channels.

    Right now, 4/10.
    If they tone down the microtransactions, fix loot mechanic, and completely do away with WoW scavenger hunts, maybe it'll get to 6/10.

    DDO still wins.

  9. #49
    Community Member Hokiewa's Avatar
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    I've surprisingly enjoyed NWO so far. It absolutely is a far different game then DDO and despite some in this thread who managed to play for 4 hours to get to level 15, there are some pretty creative Foundry quests. Comparisons are unfair to both games. The only thing killing DDO is Turbine/WB.
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  10. #50
    Community Member ~hallenbeck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokiewa View Post
    I've surprisingly enjoyed NWO so far. It absolutely is a far different game then DDO and despite some in this thread who managed to play for 4 hours to get to level 15, there are some pretty creative Foundry quests. Comparisons are unfair to both games. The only thing killing DDO is Turbine/WB.
    especially if even half of that horrific thing they call fixing comes to see the light of day of live. I can only wonder if it goes into the expansion, can we stave off the sheer wall of * by not downloading it?

  11. #51
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    Somehow, I think NWO is a good marketing piece for DDO because alot of people disappointed with the simplicity and lack of "D&Dness" of NWO, like myself, has come to join DDO!

    Having played both games at about the same time, I chose to pay over $160 playing DDO this month so far and I am here to stay... the character building and complexity is exactly what I expect of a D&D game and the community so far has been AWESOME! Everyday I see new players coming into stormreach and I think instead of dying to NWO, DDO is flourishing because of it.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    I also understand that Quest loot, from chests, is a horrid system.

    One chest, first person to open can see and take all the loot and not leave anything for anyone else. Nobody else can open the chest until the first person closes it and they will not get any loot unless the first person leaves any.

    Ripe for abuse and flashbacks to the Raid Token system.

    Screw that.
    You have zero credibility you think even the bugs and disasters in DDO are wonderful and are full of sunshine and happiness.

    It's a different system and has its positives and negatives just like DDO. It's on it's way up rather than down so it's likely to outlast DDO.

  13. #53
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellpers View Post
    You have zero credibility you think even the bugs and disasters in DDO are wonderful and are full of sunshine and happiness.

    It's a different system and has its positives and negatives just like DDO. It's on it's way up rather than down so it's likely to outlast DDO.
    What part of my statement has no credit? Is that not how the chests function? Why yes, it is.

    Not even comment on how bad the Foundry can be abused to reach 60 in a couple hours.

    So, your a mind reader too?

    Praytell, what am I thinking now?

    You really need to try harder to troll - better luck next time.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  14. #54
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    I tried out NWO yesterday, and it was okay. A little to wow like for me, but it had its good points. I have quite a few guild and channel buddies over there so it seemed more enjoyable.

    If nothing else I hope NWO does well. Maybe with some player and income loss, Turbine will get their head out of their *** and get some stuff straight around here.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    This.

    Provided NWO doesnt have lots of downtime, it will be more of an attention grabber for a bit of time. Even if NWO turned into another DDO where raids are beaten handedly a few hours after release, the Foundry is the ace in the hole for perpetual new content creation which will prevent the game from becomming stale.
    It doesn't need to become stale it starts out that way boring from the start bleh

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  16. #56
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    I don't really have all that much MMO experience. I've mainly played DDO with some Star Wars the Old Republic and recently NWO.

    I've played just about all the versions of D&D and for the most part the rule changes didn't make much difference to me. We rolled up characters and played in a world created by one of our friends or from time to time we used a pre-packaged adventure. We never fully played by the exact version of any rule set except when we played RPGA - so it changed very little for me.

    NWO has really worked out well for my local gaming group. We are a mixed group that first and foremost enjoys face to face games. Some play MMOs almost every night. Others play a few times per month. Since the others play less than I do I've been able to play DDO as well. And I still enjoy many aspects of DDO.

    NWO has a very good offering as does DDO. I don't think bashing NWO or singing its praises are going to make much of a difference to anyone. I think NWO is worth a try if someone is curious about it, but I would wait a few weeks until the volume decreases a little. I don't have to wait in queues since I bought a package, but I know others have told me they had long wait times. That will probably be less of a problem in a few weeks unless the game continues to draw huge amounts of people.

    For me the big draws of NWO are:

    1) No gulid decay. I can group with my small group of face to face friends without having to worry about running content really fast or how much the people in my guild play. The NWO guild function is social with no pressure or punishment mechanisms. Decay takes a lot of enjoyment out of DDO for me and many others.
    2) The foundry. I am really enjoying running my friend's quests. There are 16,000 foundry quests in process as of 5/1. This is a great tool set and a fantastic idea.
    3) I understand their strategy and they actually issued a whitepaper explaining how they are monetizing the game and why. It seems to make much more sense to me than Turbine's approach. This gives me confidence that the game will be around for a while and that they know what they are doing..

  17. #57
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    I have played this since headstart and messed around in NWO taking a Guardian Fighter to level 10. Fun to play when nothing is going on in DDO. It does not feel like you are playing any version of a Dungeons and Dragons game though. No relation to pnp, old school crpgs like Baldurs Gate or the original Neverwinter. The mechanics and character building (if you can call it that) just bear no relation to Dungeon and Dragons imho.

    However it is still fun, it feels like you are playing a game based on the Forgotten Realms books. So a game based on the books based on the game, lol.
    So if you enjoy reading the books and are into the lore and iconic DnD monsters it is fun for a break. If you want to have any kind of control over your build it is sucky.

    I do wish DDO could have some of the new bells and whistles that NWO has though. Mounts, inventory system, cosmetics etc.
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  18. #58
    Community Member ~Grumpycat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noneill View Post
    I do wish DDO could have some of the new bells and whistles that NWO has though. Mounts, inventory system, cosmetics etc.
    Mounts are fine in NWO because of how public areas are set up. Long drawn-out distances, slow paced characters that have to use up stamina that runs out quickly to run faster, Endless miles of dead space where it serves no purpose outside of eye candy. Not my idea of a good game. It's one of the reasons I despise WoW and EQ2. Forever walking with no purpose other than to kill game time.

    Inventory system is same ol' same ol'. The only features I could add to DDO's inventory system is a sorting mechanic that can differentiate between locked and unlocked and sort the locked to the front of your inventory and the unlocked to the back (or vsv).

    NWO and games like it are played. They're watched. I would get just as much enjoyment out of watching a DnD movie as play them. DDO is unique in the fact that you have full character development control just as you do in PnP. And with LR, GR and TR, it gives you the ability to fix mistakes. All of the other games make you reroll.

    I played NWO in play testing and recently beta played it and it flat sucks. The expectation that they would somehow bring the game they had to an MMO was crush on first play. I was drawn into NwN because of character development. If I were left with that for a choice, I would choose netflix.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillymiket View Post

    At least I got the name "Sargon"
    Names are not unique in NWO, there can be a 100 Sargon's running around.

    Overall it is not DDO, but it is fun to play.

  20. #60
    Community Member Beethoven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellpers View Post
    You have zero credibility you think even the bugs and disasters in DDO are wonderful and are full of sunshine and happiness.
    NWO's launcher crashed after an auto-update so bad it took them hours until people could get on the game.
    The game bugged out so bad you had ten seconds of lag interupted by one second of gameplay. So they had to take the game down Shard by Shard to fix it.
    NWO's network code died resulting in players (including those who paid fifty bucks on pre-order) got stuck in queues for 2+ hours.
    That was just the first day and ever since people continue find bugs.

    Sounds to me like both games have their occassional disasters and stuff wrong with them. So how again is his opinion less credible than those who post in defense of NWO? Nevermind that he posted a supporting fact while all you have is personal attacks.

    Same goes for "listening" to the playerbase. During both (closed) beta numerous players posted strong objections to
    * not every player getting an own chest, but only one with loot being first come/first serve.
    * picking up loot from the ground causing a window to pop up for everyone prompting them to choose need, greed or pass (distracting and annoying when you are in combat)
    * the mechanic allowing party leaders to kick a group at any time (including in the middle of the end fight), auto-ejecting the whole party from the quest (skirmish).
    * the lack of cosmetics in gear choices (ie: you are a Guardian Fighter you are going to run around dressed platemail, wielding a longsword and a shield)
    All of these things made it into the game. So, it sure looks like DDO and NWO have in common that not every player suggestion/objection makes it into the game right away and it'd be as easy to accuse Cryptic of ignoring (or being out of touch with) their playerbase.

    * The DDO store offers items to shave some time off the end game grind and level (raid time bypasses and leveling stones). NWO allows you to use the Foundry to cap within a weekend and then simply outright buy end-game gear with cash.
    * DDO is instanced. NWO has outdoor area which are not instanced and quests which are.
    * DDO is fairly complex and versatile in terms of build options and gear, NWO isn't only based on 4e (which already offers less character options) but a watered down version (making it extremely easy to understand but also limited to cookie cutter builds; ie: * Control Wizard, Trickster Rogue, Devoted Cleric, etc.)
    * DDO has mobs using a limited AI and (often) complex pathing to simulate real-time combat, NWO relies heavily on scripts for their combat.
    * DDO charges for (some) content. NWO uses more "sublimal" ways to get their money; ie: vast distances you need to travel to make you buy a mount, boxes that take up inventory space and are auto-pick up by getting close (and require cash to open), and world broadcast displaying in the middle of your screen every single time someone purchases a key for the boxes.
    * DDO uses systems like Past Life which give you small, but permanent boosts for long-term motivation. NWO uses a Foundry, although end-game the only point dabbling with Foundry quests is for the fun of it since the Foundry cannot give end-game gear (and you obviously no longer need XP).
    * DDO has items in their store allowing self sufficient toons to keep going (ie: Mana pots), NWO has stuff in their store allowing all builds to keep going (superior healing pots).
    * Character Death in DDO has but minor consequences but allows for failure by ejecting you from the quest/raid upon release, and wear and tear on items/gear until it eventually breaks. Death in NWO has virtually no consequence. There is no item wear and releasing only teleports you back to the latest campsite (think rest/resurection shrine).

    Personally, I find NWO's store (and the way Cryptic goes about promoting it) significantly worse than DDO. The game itself is, however, more free (DDO's ftp version sucks way worse than NWO's). Yes, the list of issues (past and still existing) is longer with DDO, but DDO also had seven years to collect such history, NWO had a week.

    Bottom line:
    NWO and DDO share in common that they are cheap yet imperfect entertainment (coming for free or are perfectly playable with but minimal expanses which is reflected in a low overhead that could go to extensive QA and/or CC. Both companies do what /they/ think best for the game, using some community imput and dismissing others.

    I still don't see NWO competing directly with DDO since both target a different audience. DDO is still the best game to go for people who enjoy potentially complex games with lots of build options and little limitation in combat (ie: movement related real-time combat). NWO appears more a direct competition for games like LotR and Rifte and (imo) a currently superior product for those who like WoW-type of games.
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