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  1. #61
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    Why not both?

  2. #62
    Community Member ~bob117's Avatar
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    Default All this hype made me want to try it!

    Am downloading it as we speak. Personally cannot wait to try it.

    It does look rather fun. I am not expecting a ddo clone. I actually am hoping its drastically different. Otherwise i would just play this game....

    I think another D&D game may be good for this one. Turbine needs something to keep em on their toes and push em forward. This could very well be it! From the vids and stuff i watched it seems Neverwinter "borrowed" some idea's from DDO. Maybe Turbine could benefit from doing the same. Competition between companies keeps them evolving and being intuitive with their products. It could very well be what DDO needs to push forward and change for the better!

    But who knows? Will try game after supper and report back.

  3. #63
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beethoven View Post
    NWO's launcher crashed after an auto-update so bad it took them hours until people could get on the game.
    The game bugged out so bad you had ten seconds of lag interupted by one second of gameplay. So they had to take the game down Shard by Shard to fix it.
    NWO's network code died resulting in players (including those who paid fifty bucks on pre-order) got stuck in queues for 2+ hours.
    That was just the first day and ever since people continue find bugs.

    Sounds to me like both games have their occassional disasters and stuff wrong with them. So how again is his opinion less credible than those who post in defense of NWO? Nevermind that he posted a supporting fact while all you have is personal attacks.

    Same goes for "listening" to the playerbase. During both (closed) beta numerous players posted strong objections to
    * not every player getting an own chest, but only one with loot being first come/first serve.
    * picking up loot from the ground causing a window to pop up for everyone prompting them to choose need, greed or pass (distracting and annoying when you are in combat)
    * the mechanic allowing party leaders to kick a group at any time (including in the middle of the end fight), auto-ejecting the whole party from the quest (skirmish).
    * the lack of cosmetics in gear choices (ie: you are a Guardian Fighter you are going to run around dressed platemail, wielding a longsword and a shield)
    All of these things made it into the game. So, it sure looks like DDO and NWO have in common that not every player suggestion/objection makes it into the game right away and it'd be as easy to accuse Cryptic of ignoring (or being out of touch with) their playerbase.

    * The DDO store offers items to shave some time off the end game grind and level (raid time bypasses and leveling stones). NWO allows you to use the Foundry to cap within a weekend and then simply outright buy end-game gear with cash.
    * DDO is instanced. NWO has outdoor area which are not instanced and quests which are.
    * DDO is fairly complex and versatile in terms of build options and gear, NWO isn't only based on 4e (which already offers less character options) but a watered down version (making it extremely easy to understand but also limited to cookie cutter builds; ie: * Control Wizard, Trickster Rogue, Devoted Cleric, etc.)
    * DDO has mobs using a limited AI and (often) complex pathing to simulate real-time combat, NWO relies heavily on scripts for their combat.
    * DDO charges for (some) content. NWO uses more "sublimal" ways to get their money; ie: vast distances you need to travel to make you buy a mount, boxes that take up inventory space and are auto-pick up by getting close (and require cash to open), and world broadcast displaying in the middle of your screen every single time someone purchases a key for the boxes.
    * DDO uses systems like Past Life which give you small, but permanent boosts for long-term motivation. NWO uses a Foundry, although end-game the only point dabbling with Foundry quests is for the fun of it since the Foundry cannot give end-game gear (and you obviously no longer need XP).
    * DDO has items in their store allowing self sufficient toons to keep going (ie: Mana pots), NWO has stuff in their store allowing all builds to keep going (superior healing pots).
    * Character Death in DDO has but minor consequences but allows for failure by ejecting you from the quest/raid upon release, and wear and tear on items/gear until it eventually breaks. Death in NWO has virtually no consequence. There is no item wear and releasing only teleports you back to the latest campsite (think rest/resurection shrine).

    Personally, I find NWO's store (and the way Cryptic goes about promoting it) significantly worse than DDO. The game itself is, however, more free (DDO's ftp version sucks way worse than NWO's). Yes, the list of issues (past and still existing) is longer with DDO, but DDO also had seven years to collect such history, NWO had a week.

    Bottom line:
    NWO and DDO share in common that they are cheap yet imperfect entertainment (coming for free or are perfectly playable with but minimal expanses which is reflected in a low overhead that could go to extensive QA and/or CC. Both companies do what /they/ think best for the game, using some community imput and dismissing others.

    I still don't see NWO competing directly with DDO since both target a different audience. DDO is still the best game to go for people who enjoy potentially complex games with lots of build options and little limitation in combat (ie: movement related real-time combat). NWO appears more a direct competition for games like LotR and Rifte and (imo) a currently superior product for those who like WoW-type of games.
    I see NWO surpassing DDO once they have an established endgame. Most of the DDO players have an opinion like yours, including myself, but the majority of the MMO market does not.

    As far as the opinions about complexity, its a comparison between a 7 year old game, and a 2 week old game. I would certainly hope the 7 year old game has the 2 week old game beat, or they are in trouble. DDO wasnt very complex right out the gate either, with no enhancement system, no AH, and no character respec. Most ofthe MMO world doesnt want to deal with having to go through a few toons before being able to attain enough knowledge to make a good one. While most people playing DDO still want their complexity, most people in the MMO world dont want to deal with spending large amounts of time leveling gimps they will either have to delete or respec anyhow.

    As far as "direct competition" - There isnt too much overlap in the audiences which will want to play both religiously. There is a decent enough sized audience who gets what they want quickly after new DDO content comes out, and when it gets boring for them again shortly thereafter, they may end up in NWO for the remainder of that time.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  4. #64
    Community Member chance2000's Avatar
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    Default I like Both

    I like both DDO and Neverwinter.
    Been playing DDO like 5+ years Neverwinter more since the 25th.
    NWO does get much harder after 20.
    I have 3 toons above the 20 mark there now.
    Smigit is level 25 Dwarf Guardain fighter
    Xailar is 28 Drow Cleric.
    Xaxx is a Theifling Control Wizard level 22.
    Now NWO has had a bit of down time since the 25th more than 1/2 dozen times it has been down.
    At some point they plan to merge the 3 player shards to one shard.
    Some of the player made content is very good only thing is Cryptic picks the end reward and not the person that made it in the foundry.
    I doubt DDO has anything to worry from NWO. It is funny every time NWO goes down so does STO Star Trek Online.
    Seeing that I first played D&D in 76 with a bunch of different DM's.
    My take is that I have 2 DM's running 2 different campaigns.
    I can say this both DDO and NWO are better than some of the DM's I have had over the years.
    Now I last played PNP D&D after Dragonlance. They guys I played with would always want me to DM and that whole RL thing prevented that. So as of the late 80's the only D&D I had was computer and more so the novels.
    I was allowed to read on the job.
    I like Neverwinter I just like DDO more.
    Not all who wander are lost. I am not lost, I am just exploring.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    There is a decent enough sized audience who gets what they want quickly after new DDO content comes out, and when it gets boring for them again shortly thereafter, they may end up in NWO for the remainder of that time.
    this is sort of where I am at...

    I was bored 2 weeks after Epic GH was released. To me same stuff just higher difficulty.

    Been playing NWO the past 2 weekends. Having fun, it is an ok game. The Foundry is interesting also, player based content. Having some fun playing with that.

    I prefer DDO and its character complexity, but NWO is fun for a D&D type action game.

  6. #66
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    Until Neverwinter allows players to be able turn off mouselook and bind turning to keys it's totally unplayable for me. Way too nausea inducing.

  7. #67
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    While I agree with Chai about the majority of mmo players liking really boring games, I don't. I tired Neverwinter online over the weekend, and absolutely hated it. I had never been that bored by a game that fast. It just...wasn't fun at all. I wanted to like it, since DDO IS an aging game, and aging things in cyberspace have an upcoming enddate no matter how much we like them. And I'd like there to be something to fill my time for when the inevitable does eventually happen. So now my eyes are turning to Elder Scrolls online, and I hope for a game that requires some though and tactics beyond teleporting around to not get hit and mashing one of six buttons.

    I think the only thing I actually liked about it was the glittery path that kept me from getting horribly lost. Ask my guildies, they have to come find me all the time, I have a talent for getting lost. Oh, and I got a brief laugh out of the Baldur's Gate Reference when I tried to start a quest while I was waiting for the husband to catch up and it said "You must gather your party before venturing forth". But then I got annoyed that I had to stand around doing nothing and waiting until he was done doing whatever he was doing.
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  8. #68
    Community Member ~bob117's Avatar
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    Well i played it all night! Kinda getting the hang of it.

    Way to much running back and fourth to quests for my liking. Run here. Run there. Run back. Also my armor skin has not changed now for 17 levels. It looks identical to first outfit i got . Kinda strange game. It is like a mix of torchlight and DDO almost.

    The kobolds are ugly and do not talk like Elmo. So far from my all nighter playing the game i would rate it a 7 out of 10. Just because it is free right now , Was pretty small download and playing a tiefling with a tail is a nice change. Was def worth a try for any D&D fan. The grafix were sub par to say the least. DDO has better grafix. I got no lag on Dragon server/shard. None what so ever. Loading was fast. The Gen chat was packed with spam but thats expected.

    Building your toon is very torchlight like or diablo style. Same type of trees and stuff to boost with stat points every level. Flexible but still very limited compared to this game! I only tried a caster so cannot comment on hand to hand combat. Will roll up a melee toon tomorrow. Casting was fun though on a CC wizard. Limited in the first few levels but gets better as you go. Some really nice Crowd control concepts and animations.

    The micro-transactions were pretty gnarly. At one point you even walk by a girl in the main town and she says" Come spend your astral shards on my fine rare treasures" In a real voice! It uses 3 currencies. Zen, Astral shards and gold/silver/bronze . I looted a nightmare treasure box from some enemy that apparently had chance of dropping good loot but the only way to open the box was to buy a key from the store. Thought that was kinda a cheesy tactic, But whatever. It has the same " Identify" unidentified loot that Torchlight and Diablo use. You use scrolls to do this. They can be looted or bought from the store with real money, But as far as i could tell there was no where to actually buy the identify scrolls with in game plat. I did loot a ton of em so i would suspect this is just a cash grab. I also ended up winning Astral shards from a Diety i worship. You can pray to em every hour and win stuff. These are pretty much what you buy Things off AH with. I did not see a gold auction house. only astral shard.

    I do not think its the type of game many DDO'ers have to worry about stealing to many customers. Although it was really neat seeing a game so thriving with so many people.

    If you dug Torchlight and like DDO. Then this game is right up your ally!

    That said, DDO needs a big year and also needs to find some way to attract some new blood to the game. The bugs, lag, balance problems, and all the nonsense we put up with needs to be addressed by Turbine. They can thank their lucky stars this Neverwinter game is not amazing!
    Last edited by bob117; 05-06-2013 at 12:47 PM.

  9. #69
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    One of the huge things NWO has going for it atm is that it is does not have such a strong anti new player segment of its population because the game is new. My wife and I own a lot of DDO content. We bop around between DDO, EQ2, LOTRO, Age of Conan, TERA and now NWO. We haven’t been back to DDO for a while in large part due to the anti new player segment of the population. Grouping LFMs are often unfriendly right from the title or notes.

    We probably have forgotten quests we used to know, or don’t remember where X quest is given. We know that just requesting a share can get you booted. We will not be able to go as fast as people would like, so we usually just end up logging in to something else because we have choices. It is actually sad because we like the game and play style in DDO, the traps and dungeon crawl aspect are without compare but the intolerance here is not worth it.

    I know there are some very helpful people here but when you want to do a quest, one that we have not done(which is the ones you really want to do), we can fill the roles needed and its says, know the quest, don’t die ect. Lower level stuff we were able to duo with hirelings but as we got close to the cap it was the people here who keep us away because you need to group. You could justly call me a Turbine fanboi, but even that does not overcome the feeling of knowing you are unwelcome.

    We have been having fun playing NWO. I can’t comment on the shop because we never spend in a shop until we reach higher levels. I can tell you, I have not felt like I have been missing anything by not purchasing anything. I am not bitter about DDO either. I feel like the money we invested here was worth it and even if we never play again we have received excellent entertainment value for the dollars invested.

    I am uncomfortable saying which game is better or comparing features because the comparative age of each game. What I will say is when presented with the choice to log in to all the games I mentioned above and even though I own much content in the other games, we are having the most fun playing NWO atm, so that is where we are logging in.

    I always tell everyone, do not trust the forums or others opinions in today’s MMO landscape with extended trials and F2P. Go experience it for yourself. You might find some permanent or temporary fun or you might find a new appreciation for the game you have been playing. Give it a fair shot, play the new game until the leveling slows down and you have chance to get a real feel for the controls, playing for 30 mins doesn’t do much.

  10. #70
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    nw is just another typical mmorpg. Only thing unique about nw is its foundry system, where you get to create ur own maps, similar to warcraft. I got bored of nw after 1 week playing it, cos its pretty much the same stuff over and over again. I prefer ddo over nw anyday.

    Right now, im just waiting for ESO ( elder scrolls online).

  11. #71
    Community Member ~hallenbeck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sha123 View Post
    nw is just another typical mmorpg. Only thing unique about nw is its foundry system, where you get to create ur own maps, similar to warcraft. I got bored of nw after 1 week playing it, cos its pretty much the same stuff over and over again. I prefer ddo over nw anyday.

    Right now, im just waiting for ESO ( elder scrolls online).
    Ya the foundry's nice but they really gotta get their **** together. That whole system of grouping and finding other people is all bunked to hell. Then the interface seeming to close out at a movement with camera zoom unavailable in action mode just all adds up to an annoyance after awhile.

    I hope they're taking notes in beta.

  12. #72
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    nm
    Last edited by Darthsarlacc; 12-20-2013 at 10:50 PM.

  13. #73
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    Default Ditto

    Quote Originally Posted by Darthsarlacc View Post
    I have played other mmos, but ddo is the only one in which I have not been a member of a large guild.

    I pug almost exclusively and have noticed the same thing. DDO has a real problem with new players mixing with longtime players, its like trying to mix oil and water. DDO will never reach mainstream appeal unless it institutes newplayer hand holding mechanisms that longtime players hate so much.
    I rarely post, but yes I agree with this sentiment whole-heartedly. Still I love the game, and am waiting for the good guys to come back and pug. Seems hard to find groups currently and although I belong to a fair sized guild most are not EU based.

    Still not very tempted by NWN but maybe ESO?

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthsarlacc View Post
    I have played other mmos, but ddo is the only one in which I have not been a member of a large guild.

    I pug almost exclusively and have noticed the same thing. DDO has a real problem with new players mixing with longtime players, its like trying to mix oil and water. DDO will never reach mainstream appeal unless it institutes newplayer hand holding mechanisms that longtime players hate so much.
    I don't have much experience with other MMOs, but I agree with this.

    This is something the devs completely missed when they made the guild change last Fall. There is one large guild on Sarlona that will take anyone, Bathory Hordes, as they have an open recruitment policy. Most of the high level large guilds running raids want vets and it has nothing to do with renown, it has to do with ensuring the reputation of their guild remains strong. There were a few people running open raids on Sarlona that I joined frequently. They joined a large guild after the guild system was changed and now participate in the guild runs instead - so now I pug since those were the only 2 people that would invite my character to forming raids before the lfm went up. Another person that hosts raids frequently invites only my healer that is a first lifer, but I am rarely on as that toon. I don't mind healing raids, I used to do it frequently with shroud, TOD, etc. But now that everything is btc I only switch to my healer if the party can't seem to find a healer I did have decent success finding pug Fall of Truths and Caught in the Webs to join, but recently I am just focusing on TR'ing so I don't know how it is now. I don't feel comfortable running raids even if I know them well.

    So for the most part I am just tr'ing my toon while also enjoying NWO with my more casual friends.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inthuul View Post
    Until Neverwinter allows players to be able turn off mouselook and bind turning to keys it's totally unplayable for me. Way too nausea inducing.
    In my brief look at NWO (after navigating downloading and uptime issues) I found the mouselock to be my personal #1 annoyance, and I couldn't even find a keyboard shortcut help page or any reasonable UI configuration options. I was not looking for anything fancy, its a beta game, but there are some basic minimums that traditionally go into even BETA software.

    But that forced mouselock..and the idea that it was forced....

  16. #76
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    I've attempted to play it.

    I'm not a fan of constant mouse-directional. It irks me that I can't POV lock and turn strafe. Too much Quake for me I guess. Do not like the lack of activity in gameplay ... move or attack, no attack on the run, etc.

    Quests seem flat. Character generation is essentially a railroad.

    No desire to play a D&D flavored Diablo.

    Maybe once it gets some legs, some mass behind it and varied options at least at paragon/epic levels.
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  17. #77
    Community Member Arnez's Avatar
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    Update: I still agree with the "Play Both" stance. After playing some of the Foundry quests- I find them interesting and varied.
    Lock-boxes are kind of annoying (in a blatant money-grabbing way) But the hourly chance for astral shards can get addictive ("Oh only 22 min til I can try again?- I'll just run another foundry quest")

    DDO- has a great deal more polish, but it's also been out for 7 years.

    NWO is "Ok" coming out of the gate, add polish and who knows?

    Mouse-look is forced. They need to fix that SOON.

    Skyships > Airships

    If they make Guild-based Skyships (in a system with no guild decay......DOOM)

  18. #78
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    I think NWO will shape up and become it's own niche. I look at it as something different from DDO.

    Hell, I dabble just a bit into Mechwarrior Online, because I loved MW2 back in the Win95 days.

    I don't try to compare the games too much anymore... I did before, but I find it's not productive.
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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthsarlacc View Post
    I have played other mmos, but ddo is the only one in which I have not been a member of a large guild.

    I pug almost exclusively and have noticed the same thing. DDO has a real problem with new players mixing with longtime players, its like trying to mix oil and water. DDO will never reach mainstream appeal unless it institutes newplayer hand holding mechanisms that longtime players hate so much.
    It isn't just that, its that Turbine sees new players as suckers who will buy up vendor **** with turbine points and leave. Also Trubine's handholding is designed to gently and firmly steer new players into playing complete gimps (read the rest of this web page: they encourage charisma-based favor souls on the front page).

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnez View Post
    Update: I still agree with the "Play Both" stance. After playing some of the Foundry quests- I find them interesting and varied.
    Lock-boxes are kind of annoying (in a blatant money-grabbing way) But the hourly chance for astral shards can get addictive ("Oh only 22 min til I can try again?- I'll just run another foundry quest")

    DDO- has a great deal more polish, but it's also been out for 7 years.

    NWO is "Ok" coming out of the gate, add polish and who knows?

    Mouse-look is forced. They need to fix that SOON.

    Skyships > Airships

    If they make Guild-based Skyships (in a system with no guild decay......DOOM)
    While lockboxes are basically a pay2win casino, Turbine has them in LOTRO. Of course, "sturdy keys" drop in LOTRO as well (at a 1/10? ratio) and open *all* boxes (the boxes have level-based drops). This basically gives a way for newbies to strike it rich and bring in plenty of gold (assuming they have coughed up the TP to unlock the gold cap).

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