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  1. #1
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    Default Need TWF Monk/Ranger/Rogue build help

    Trying to work out the kinks in a 32pt TWF monk/ranger/rogueas a Warforged if possible. The build goals are Tempest TWF with long/short swords and fists, traps, UMD, centered with robes and backup ranged from free feats. Locks are not necessary.

    I was looking at this build and was planning to do something very close to this:
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4596746

    The idea is a fast TWF'er with scrolls/wands for self healing and traps. I want to be able to solo the majority of the time. I know the Tempest extras wont work with unarmed but I was planning unarmed as my backup for use against skeletons and stuff.

    I feel like the only way to achieve my skill goals is to go 12Ranger/6Monk/2Rogue. I initially wanted 12Monk (For regen, extra unarmed dmg, immunities and master wind stance) but was unable to get my skills right.

    Any help is much appreciated, thanks.

    EDIT - I am also not averse to multiclassing differently whether it be a different split or different classes all together. The main goal is a fast, high DPS TWF with UMD and traps.

    I think I'm happy with the 12Ranger split due to all the free feats and 100% offhand with Tempest II.

    The only thing I am having trouble with is what to do with 2 of my feats.

    This is what I have come up with for a jack of trades ranged/melee build. The 2 feats in question I am unsure of are Zen Archery and Point Blank Shot which I could exchange for Improved Crit: Slashing and Another toughness. The other option would be to drop those 2 and as well as both Cleaves for Combat Expertise, Whirlwind Attack, Toughness and Stunning blow.

    Please help, I would really appreciate it.

    *Note - All enhancements listed at bottom of mage under lvl 20









    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
    (6 Monk \ 2 Rogue \ 12 Ranger)
    Hit Points: 268
    Spell Points: 224
    BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
    Fortitude: 15
    Reflex: 19
    Will: 13

    Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
    (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)

    Strength 16 23 24
    Dexterity 14 14 16
    Constitution 14 14 14
    Intelligence 10 12 12
    Wisdom 14 15 18
    Charisma 10 10 10


    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 12

    Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
    Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
    Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)

    Balance 6 16 18
    Bluff 0 0 0
    Concentration 4 25 27
    Diplomacy 0 0 0
    Disable Device 4 23 24
    Haggle 0 0 0
    Heal 2 4 4
    Hide 2 3 5
    Intimidate 0 0 0
    Jump 7 11 13
    Listen 2 4 4
    Move Silently 2 3 5
    Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
    Perform n/a n/a n/a
    Repair 0 1 1
    Search 4 22 24
    Spot 6 22 23
    Swim 7 11 11
    Tumble 6 7 9
    Use Magic Device 4 22 22

    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness


    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


    Level 3 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike


    Level 4 (Ranger)


    Level 5 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Mobility


    Level 7 (Ranger)


    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


    Level 10 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


    Level 11 (Monk)


    Level 12 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave


    Level 13 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery


    Level 14 (Rogue)


    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


    Level 16 (Ranger)


    Level 17 (Ranger)


    Level 18 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


    Level 19 (Ranger)


    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
    Enhancement: Static Charge
    Enhancement: Ten Thousand Stars
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
    Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
    Enhancement: Adept of Wind
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
    Enhancement: Improved Jump I
    Enhancement: Improved Jump II
    Enhancement: Improved Search I
    Enhancement: Improved Search II
    Enhancement: Improved Spot I
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
    Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I


    [/code]
    Last edited by UnInfallible; 05-01-2013 at 09:42 AM.

  2. #2
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    Revised OP
    Last edited by UnInfallible; 04-30-2013 at 11:44 PM.

  3. #3
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    Revised OP
    Last edited by UnInfallible; 04-30-2013 at 11:45 PM.

  4. #4
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    Revised OP
    Last edited by UnInfallible; 04-30-2013 at 11:45 PM.

  5. #5
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Why WF? Planning on UMDing repair wands? Going human would net you 30% heal amp, human versatility, etc. Not to mention, your build plan is as a human.
    Zen archery would be for 10k stars, which is nice, but you're planning on TWF mainly, so I'd ignore it.
    You also mentioned maybe taking IC: slash, but also want to use short swords as well? Personally, I'd drop whirling steel strike (and WF: slashing). I'd keep PBS, and use manyshot when you feel like it.. It's high dps, and if you manyshot them at a distance, that makes cutting them into pieces a bit easier.
    Dropping WF: slash, Whirling Steel Strike and Zen Archery would give you 3 feats to play with, so that's stunning blow, IC: Pierce, and a second toughness, if you want it.
    Also, could you get 12 ranger earlier? Much as I love monks, you're playing at 70% offhand until level 19, and don't get 100% until level 20, which is a bit annoying.
    It's what I'd do, but we do play differently, and I don't like longswords :P

    Also on a personal note, including automatic feats and spells is a tad annoying, and makes it harder to find what you took.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Why WF? Planning on UMDing repair wands? Going human would net you 30% heal amp, human versatility, etc. Not to mention, your build plan is as a human.
    Zen archery would be for 10k stars, which is nice, but you're planning on TWF mainly, so I'd ignore it.
    You also mentioned maybe taking IC: slash, but also want to use short swords as well? Personally, I'd drop whirling steel strike (and WF: slashing). I'd keep PBS, and use manyshot when you feel like it.. It's high dps, and if you manyshot them at a distance, that makes cutting them into pieces a bit easier.
    Dropping WF: slash, Whirling Steel Strike and Zen Archery would give you 3 feats to play with, so that's stunning blow, IC: Pierce, and a second toughness, if you want it.
    Also, could you get 12 ranger earlier? Much as I love monks, you're playing at 70% offhand until level 19, and don't get 100% until level 20, which is a bit annoying.
    It's what I'd do, but we do play differently, and I don't like longswords :P

    Also on a personal note, including automatic feats and spells is a tad annoying, and makes it harder to find what you took.

    Short swords comes free with the monk PrE. I would like to stay centered which means if I do decide to take PBS I will definitely not be dropping Zen Archery.

    Yes, I see my build is Human. The reason I wanted warforged was for the racial resistences, but with a 32pt build it's just spread too thin and the human extra feat, skill pts and healing amp is too much to pass up considering the goals for the character and the WF starting stats.

    I was trying to make this build work with 12Monk to start with but was unable to include traps due to skill point deficiencies.

    What do you think I should switch to get ranger earlier?
    Last edited by UnInfallible; 05-01-2013 at 09:50 AM.

  7. #7
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    <Irrelevant wall of text, everything important posted below, as I got home>
    Not quite sure how to delete this post, if I even can.
    Last edited by Soulfurnace; 05-02-2013 at 01:38 AM.

  8. #8
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Okay, finished with it.. I get offhand % earlier than you, but I'm not centered with shortswords until level 18. Sacrifices either way, and you gotta pick what you'd rather. I didn't take enhancements, each to their own in that regard. No PBS, seeming you'd rather stay centered with a bow. On the note of concentration, I assumed you wanted to stay centered to use it for ki stuff. I also assumed you had a +1 wisdom tome, which isn't hard. You also qualify for overwhelming crit at level 21, if you eat a +2 str tome (which you've got)

    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
    (6 Monk \ 2 Rogue \ 12 Ranger)
    Hit Points: 260
    Spell Points: 161
    BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
    Fortitude: 15
    Reflex: 18
    Will: 10

    Starting Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
    (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)

    Strength 16 21
    Dexterity 14 14
    Constitution 14 14
    Intelligence 14 14
    Wisdom 12 13
    Charisma 8 8

    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2

    Starting Ending
    Base Skills Base Skills
    Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)

    Balance 6 7
    Bluff 3 3
    Concentration 4 25
    Diplomacy -1 -1
    Disable Device 6 25
    Haggle 3 3
    Heal 1 1
    Hide 2 2
    Intimidate -1 -1
    Jump 7 15
    Listen 1 1
    Move Silently 6 6
    Open Lock 6 25
    Perform n/a n/a
    Repair 2 2
    Search 6 25
    Spot 1 1
    Swim 3 5
    Tumble 6 6
    Use Magic Device 3 22

    Not sure why the damn forum is such a bad colour in the code box, but w/e.
    Level order is: Rogue, Monk (x2), Ranger (x11), Monk (x4), Ranger, Rogue.
    Feats:
    Human Feat: Toughness
    Basic Feats: Lv 1, stunning blow. Lv 3, Mobility. Lv 6, Spring Attack. Lv 9, Zen Archery. Lv 12, IC: Pierce. Lv 15, Cleave. Lv 18, Great Cleave.
    Monk Feats: Lv 2, Power Attack. Lv 3, Dodge. Lv 15, Fists of Darkness. Lv 18, Toughness.

    This is just how I'd build it. You're free to disagree, and do yours, but I hate TWF without high offhand, and getting greater TWF at level 19 is ouchies for me.

  9. #9
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    Thanks so much for the help. I think I like your lvl progression better.

    So it's okay to basically dump stat wisdow?

    The starting 14 int is required?

    I also feel like 14 dex might be too much due to free TWF feats coming from ranger and no prereqs. I believe I only need 13 for Dodge/Mobility.

    Maybe I will do some gear research and see if an extra point in str (17-13-14-10-12-10) will do me any good later on.

  10. #10
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    No, 14 starting int isn't needed, but I didn't include a +2 int tome. You should be okay with it, and if not, just drop open lock a point or two. UMD/search/disable are more important. (or drop concentration, if centered is for flavour)
    And wisdom, yeah, why not dump it? Only reason I took 13 wisdom was for Zen Archery, and that's only because you wanted it. About the stats.. with a +2 tome, you only need 10, but I went for OL. No point going half-way on those trap skills :P

  11. #11
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    The major problem with the way you set it up is I can only use fists (with very low dmg) while centered until lvl 18 which gain no benefit from any of the Tempest enhancements.

    I have been messing around with the build and want to do 1 rogue 1 ranger 2 monk 10 ranger 4 monk 1 ranger. This solves the feat issue I'm having but I was unable to get my skills the same way (12int +2 tome at 7).

  12. #12
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    Okay, so this is what I've come up with and think I'll be going with. It leaves me with many melee options and back up ranged, access to Overwhelming criticals (with a +2 tome and all lvl ups in str) and only need to find keen on 1 set of weapons. Let me know what you think.

    Also, I'm assuming lawful good is best for access to good, holy and axiomatic weapons. Does Lawful Neutral gain me anything besides Unholy prefix?

    The only other thing I am somewhat worried about is the low Spot. I have never made a monk and don't know how high I actually need my conc. I guess I could take 14Int and dump Cha but I'm worried I wont be able to hit 39UMD if I do that.

    Thank you again for working this out with me I really do appreciate it.


    REVISED 12Ranger6Monk2Rogue
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
    (6 Monk \ 2 Rogue \ 12 Ranger)
    Hit Points: 238
    Spell Points: 161
    BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
    Fortitude: 15
    Reflex: 18
    Will: 10

    Starting Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
    (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)

    Strength 16 16
    Dexterity 14 14
    Constitution 14 14
    Intelligence 12 14
    Wisdom 12 13
    Charisma 10 10


    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

    Starting Ending
    Base Skills Base Skills
    Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)

    Balance 6 6
    Bluff 0 0
    Concentration 4 22
    Diplomacy 0 0
    Disable Device 5 25
    Haggle 0 0
    Heal 1 1
    Hide 2 2
    Intimidate 0 0
    Jump 7 7
    Listen 5 5
    Move Silently 2 2
    Open Lock 6 25
    Perform n/a n/a
    Repair 1 2
    Search 5 25
    Spot 5 14
    Swim 3 3
    Tumble 6 6
    Use Magic Device 4 23

    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Listen (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Dodge
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness


    Level 2 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility


    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


    Level 4 (Monk)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike


    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


    Level 7 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


    Level 10 (Ranger)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave


    Level 13 (Ranger)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


    Level 14 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


    Level 15 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


    Level 16 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)


    Level 17 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)


    Level 18 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+3)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery


    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+6)


    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


    [/code]
    Last edited by UnInfallible; 05-02-2013 at 11:34 PM.

  13. #13
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Rule of thumb, I'd say Lawful neutral.. renders you immune to a few nasty things, and you can UMD weapons.
    Lawful good exists for paladins :P
    Seeming you took WSS (ew), might wanna look at http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Oathblade for when ya hit level 20. They come with A. Expanded crit range, B. Keen (which ya might need), C. 4 to saves, D. Other goodies
    For a monk, you need either 0, or max concentration. 0 if you don't plan to use ki, max if you want to use it. (oh, fine, there IS a middle line, but w/e)
    As for spot, you're a monk/ranger/rogue. You've got reflex save. Find a trap by running through it, then run back for the box <-- not a good idea, you'll roll a 1 eventually. Just look on DDO wiki for trap boxes.. it'll save effort.

    Either way, hope I've helped, and have fun killing stuff! :P

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