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  1. #141
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKeeper1981 View Post
    At first, I couldn't figure out where the loss came from, then I realized: what was once Monk Wisdom I-III is now only two tiers of Monk Wisdom.
    I think you've missed some important elements of how the trees work.

    You can easily get more WIS than previously while still retaining all the current Shintao abilities, picking up some of the Ninja Spy abilities and even grabbing some of the new Henshin abilities.

    You simply are not trying hard enough or you've got tunnel vision.

    There is nearly no reason to spend more than 42 points on the Shintao tree and that leaves plenty to spend in the other trees and to unlock additional WIS. I've unlocked 5 points in testing and 4 points on what will likely be my final enhancement set up once this all goes live.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    I think you've missed some important elements of how the trees work.

    You can easily get more WIS than previously while still retaining all the current Shintao abilities, picking up some of the Ninja Spy abilities and even grabbing some of the new Henshin abilities.

    You simply are not trying hard enough or you've got tunnel vision.

    There is nearly no reason to spend more than 42 points on the Shintao tree and that leaves plenty to spend in the other trees and to unlock additional WIS. I've unlocked 5 points in testing and 4 points on what will likely be my final enhancement set up once this all goes live.
    First, I do know that you can spend points on some of the other trees. That's how I worked to regain my extra concentration.

    As of the time of that post, I had spent 41 points on the Shintao Tree, but I really didn't have any points left to get to the wisdom in the other class trees, only enough to get back my concentration. I can take another look at the human racial enhancements, again, and see if there's still more I can let go, but I still need to spend enough points in it to get to the third tier of healing amplification.

    ==EDIT==

    After resetting and playing with the human racial enhancement tree, I discovered I actually did spend a couple or so more points than I initially thought I needed to, allowing me to reach the third tier in the henshin tree. So I concede that I can regain my lost point of wisdom. I thank you, kindly, for encouraging me to take another look at my enhancements.
    Last edited by TheKeeper1981; 07-22-2013 at 12:19 AM.

  3. #143
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKeeper1981 View Post
    After resetting and playing with the human racial enhancement tree, I discovered I actually did spend a couple or so more points than I initially thought I needed to, allowing me to reach the third tier in the henshin tree. So I concede that I can regain my lost point of wisdom. I thank you, kindly, for encouraging me to take another look at my enhancements.
    IMO it will be interesting to see what people do with their monk enhancements for epic content.

    I've sort of maxed out both the Ninja Spy and the Shintao trees in different tests and found both to be very underwhelming on epic content. They are still impressive on heroic content and passable in low level epics but they drop in value in the 24+ level quests.

    My current thinking is that the best mix is a working of the trees to get tier 4 WIS in both the Ninja Spy and Shintao trees.

  4. #144
    Founder Delacroix21's Avatar
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    Default Change shintao unarmed die, current enhancment far to weak.

    There is only 1 and I repeat 1 enhancement that focuses on unarmed: increases unarmed to 1d8.


    This is rather weak compared to staves getting +1 threat range and +1 crit multiplier. The whole weakness of unarmed is its crit range and multiplier, and it is sorely needing the same buff as quarter staves. Going from 6d6 to 6d8 isn't really worthy of a tier 5 enhancement, especially considering shintaos very narrow focus of abilities only working on a few mobs in the game. Allready wolf druid splashes are getting 6d10 and higher.


    Can you change the shintao unarmed buff to match the quarter staff capstone? Preety please? I also think you can keep the 1d8 as a separate tier 5 enhancement, or fold it into the +1 threat range and multiplier.
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  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    There is only 1 and I repeat 1 enhancement that focuses on unarmed: increases unarmed to 1d8.


    This is rather weak compared to staves getting +1 threat range and +1 crit multiplier. The whole weakness of unarmed is its crit range and multiplier, and it is sorely needing the same buff as quarter staves. Going from 6d6 to 6d8 isn't really worthy of a tier 5 enhancement, especially considering shintaos very narrow focus of abilities only working on a few mobs in the game. Allready wolf druid splashes are getting 6d10 and higher.


    Can you change the shintao unarmed buff to match the quarter staff capstone? Preety please? I also think you can keep the 1d8 as a separate tier 5 enhancement, or fold it into the +1 threat range and multiplier.
    What you are asking for will just make unarmed too powerful...
    The fact is even though we are seeing buffs to many fighting styles there is a reason unarmed doesn't really require it, on live it is already potent.
    Buff unarmed with +1 crit range and multiplier and people will stop playing other melee classes.
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  6. #146
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    1d8 is plenty. It doesn't seem like it, but when you see 9[1d8] or greater and then add in the extra stun damage, you should be pretty happy.

    Shintao is nearly perfect. Just missing access to void strikes.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

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  7. #147
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    So on this 26th day of July in the year 2013, I returned to Lamannia to see what changes have been made to the monk enhancements, and I find myself both pleased and frustrated. I really liked that they did make Rise of the Phoenix a raise dead ability, again, though it's still something the monk can only cast on herself, and then, only when she's dead. While that is much more useful than what they had, before, I guess I was hoping that they'd make it just like it was. Ah, well. I couldn't afford the points to obtain that ability, not without sacrificing others that I needed, more, for my build and play style. But this is also the case with my Shintao III monk on the live server, so I'm not even irked at this.

    I'm still frustrated at having had my +10 to concentration taken away from my capstone, even though I did manage to balance out the loss by taking some enhancements from the other prestige class trees. Although, this, too, wouldn't have bothered me, much, if I hadn't discovered that Vorpal Strikes, which makes my unarmed strikes into slashing weapons, does not currently work with the first two Ninja Spy core enhancements, which allow a monk to use her Dexterity for her to-hit and damage bonuses, rather than Strength. If it had worked as intended (which, according to Kookiekobold, it is currently not, as she (?) had actually bug-reported this problem, herself), I probably would have been much more delighted with the situation, frankly, as I spend most of my time in Wind stance, in order to gain the bonuses to my melee attack speed and doublestrike.

    Another frustration is that, despite the release notes https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ted-7-26-2013), my ToD Shintao Set is NOT working with the new enhancements. I bug-reported this, again, but I am half-afraid that they will not be able to fix this issue, until long after the changes have gone live.

    While it is not listed in the Official Known Issues, nor mentioned in the release notes, I thought it useful to report that the Shintao abilities Smite Tainted Creature, Dismissal Strike, Jade Strike, Tomb of Jade, and Kukan-Do still do not count as light moves that can prime the light+light+light finisher. I decided to send a bug report on this, too, just in case the devs did try to fix it, but it didn't go through.

    I'm not quite sure what to think about the way Defensive Strikes was changed to Deft Strikes. Frankly, I really didn't have a problem with Defensive Strikes. I understand why others didn't like it, but I'm not really crazy about the solutions that the devs decided upon to quell the uproar.

    All in all, though, if the devs can get Vorpal Strikes, the ToD sets, and the Shintao Strikes functioning as they are supposed to, I think I would actually enjoy the new monk enhancements, as they seem to make me better, in many ways. And I really, truly hope they are able to get it fixed, before these changes go live.

  8. #148
    Community Member DeadRabbat's Avatar
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    Smite Tainted Creature, Dismissal Strike, Jade Strike, Tomb of Jade, and Kukan-Do still do not count as light moves...But with DevChat Event, Vargouille &/or Piloto said that they "count as a Light move & that it is currently a bug." So they are aware and hopefully by update they will be fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    That ship has sailed, came back, sailed again, got raided by pirates, became a pirate ship, got cursed to chase after the Flying Dutchman for three centuries, got exorcised to fight in the American Civil War, then got modernized to fight in both World Wars, participated in the D-Day landing and is a decommissioned museum/restaurant now in Key West, Florida.
    Quote Originally Posted by KookieKobold View Post
    I knew i should have actually tested this.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    There is only 1 and I repeat 1 enhancement that focuses on unarmed: increases unarmed to 1d8.


    This is rather weak compared to staves getting +1 threat range and +1 crit multiplier. The whole weakness of unarmed is its crit range and multiplier, and it is sorely needing the same buff as quarter staves. Going from 6d6 to 6d8 isn't really worthy of a tier 5 enhancement, especially considering shintaos very narrow focus of abilities only working on a few mobs in the game. Allready wolf druid splashes are getting 6d10 and higher.


    Can you change the shintao unarmed buff to match the quarter staff capstone? Preety please? I also think you can keep the 1d8 as a separate tier 5 enhancement, or fold it into the +1 threat range and multiplier.
    You forget that handwraps get 50% more dmg almost all the time, while quarterstaves and short swords do not. I would have any day stunning fist to work with qstaff/short sword than +1threat range and +1crit multiplier.. Which is the reason, you will not see any or very rare qstaff/short sword monk out there (except some splashes). Stunning fist is so much more powerful than anything in any of the enhancements.. Now that devs say that QP will be coming to qstaff/short sword though the gap is a little bit less, but still huge. Stunning blow blows if you want to use monk goodies like QP or GMoF abilities.

    Edit: grammar

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loranth View Post
    You forget that handwraps get 50% more dmg almost all the time, while quarterstaves and short swords do not. I would have any day stunning fist to work with qstaff/short sword than +1threat range and +1crit multiplier.. Which is the reason, you will not see any or very rare qstaff/short sword monk out there (except some splashes). Stunning fist is so much more powerful than anything in any of the enhancements.. Now that devs say that QP will be coming to qstaff/short sword though the gap is a little bit less, but still huge. Stunning blow blows if you want to use monk goodies like QP or GMoF abilities.

    Edit: grammar
    You can't stun red names for one, and QP stinks and never works in EE even with 60 wisdom and 20 monk levels is a pitiful 45dc. Heck that wouldn't even stick in epic hard, and only half the time on normal. GMoF? Your joking right? That is a junk ED for dps, whose only saving grace is EiN every 5 mins. I always get asked when I join a CiTW if i have EiN on my monk and say NO, then I rock PA and use tree form to spank mobs and lloth for 800 a swing out dpsing 4 other Meeles combined, not to mention clear trash and the 2 mini bosses so fast they barely summon any trash, faster than a stupid every 5 min EiN monk with gimp dps.


    Stunning fist while nice is not the be all end all, especially now sireth with only 5 monk levels becomes a 14-20x3 weapon with improved crit. Add to that a +25% to double strike up 90% of the time with 2 rogue levels, and the the epic destiny FoW (knockdowns last 10 seconds not 6, have no save, and make enemies helpless, and using greatcleave knocks down everyone around you!) and stunning fist hardly seems to redeem unarmed. Especially since an easily obtainable 50% double strike 90% of the time means huge dps, while regenerating furies often.


    Learn more about the game mechanics and building toons before you claim monks using weapons are "rare" or what you consider "goodies".
    Last edited by Delacroix21; 07-26-2013 at 10:56 PM.
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  11. #151
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    Default A brief examination of Monks; Criticism and ideas ^_^

    I was rather looking forward to the shintao tree gaining more survivability. The PRR increase would be welcome, considering monks struggle to gain any PRR most of the time. However, Heal amp and dodge bonuses have become somewhat of a dependability for monks, since we cannot obtain high enough AC/PRR to survive as well as armored toons. Now heal amp is being reduced/limited as well as costing more AP to obtain. Lets not forget the animal enhancements; shouldn't all types of monks have access to these fighting paths and not just the henshin? Its like restricting what stance a monk can use based on his/her prestige choice.

    Devs, You are stretching too many needs too thin and are getting the hopes up for your players. Some enhancements should remain available to all monks (animal paths, heal amp, PRR bonuses), else you are undermining the playability of the class, while making it impossible for us to have any multiclassing options. I was under the impression that the new enhancement system was supposed to encourage multiclassing and unique character builds, was it not? Kensei was certainly designed with monks in mind, so why disable us from using it?

    Why not give us the option to choose between abilities like defensive strikes and deft strikes when we take the enhancement, just as monks can choose between being light and dark? This would encourage diversity in character builds and players are always happier when they have more options.

    What is the purpose of having meditation of war not stack with defensive/deft strikes, when its bonuses are dependent on which stances are active and it negates other desirable abilities which you have spent alot of AP on? Why restrict Rise of the Phoenix to being a limited (and expensive!) raise ability, when it is currently more effective now? Why limit the new ninja spy abilities in order to restrict what weapons players may use? We spend a lot of time trying to figure out what abilities to purchase with our limited points, so taking abilities we cannot use in order to gain something we want (or even something we already had!) is very frustrating.

    It looked like you wanted to offer tanking options to monks again by granting more PRR/threat/intim bonuses. I know of several people, including myself, that were looking forward to that! Ever since the new AC/PRR mechanics have been introduced, monks haven't been able to tank elite endgame content. Having that option back again would be great, please consider making it possible again! Not every monk should be limited to being a pure monk thats good for nothing but some DPS.

    All in all, i think its off to a nice start, but theres still some work to be done. Please keep the general monk abilities/bonuses open to all monks. I don't expect a shintao/light monk to have more dps abilities than a ninja/dark or a dark to have more healing/survivability than a light, but they should at least have some of each to balance eachother out to a degree, while remaining true to the defining characteristics of what makes a monk a monk.

    Thank you for your consideration, keep up the hard work!
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  12. #152
    Founder Delacroix21's Avatar
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    Tried submitting a bug report i spent over an hour on, and got the error message invalid token. Fix your **** tools or players can't help report bugs!


    Here is my take on the 3 trees:

    Ninja Spy, core abilities
    All are good and balanced except poisoned darts, 1 stack of poison every 15 seconds? What a joke. Make it 3 stacks and reduce the cooldown to 3 seconds and it will become part of our rotations, as is not worth the ki: ie will never use in its current state.

    Ninja spy tier abilities
    Ninjutsu abilities: why would I ever want to purge my ninja poison for a tiny 1 time damage bonus? Impending doom: change the 25 temporary hit points to 25 healing, get over your current obsession with "temporary" health/mana, they are weak and limiting. Wave of despair: only ability worth it, randomly bugs out and stops working though. Poisoned soul: 1 stack every 6 seconds is to slow, 1stack every 2 seconds for 10 seconds better.

    Put faster sneaking back to 1 ap per tier, this is a fluff ability. Allow subtlety to work with ranged. Agility is broken and does not increase dodge cap. Crippling strike: you nerfed stat damage to death a long time ago, no one cares about stat damage anymore. Touch of death: weak ability ever since its nerf from untyped damage to negative energy (does nothing to undead), enemies always make their save in EH and above so only does half damage, ability never SCALES due to not being effected by spell power.

    All tier 5 abilities in ninja spy SUCK, except maybe the double strike. I want the level 20 ability, but won't take the tier 5s in this tree, bunch of junk.


    Henshin mystic:
    Quoted by Devs: the "caster monk" tree. Silly because spell power only effects a tiny few abilities that are extremely weak. Does not effect monk elemental strikes, GMoF abilities, touch of death.

    Lets really break it down. Spell power only effects: fir/fir/fire finisher, ki bolt, incinerating wave, cauldron of flame, and healing ki. THAT IS IT! Wake up Devs! Those 5 abilities are so very WEAK anyway! If you want monks to give a damn about spellpower massively buff those 5 abilities, and add spellpower to GMoF petal strikes, also change spellpower to Universal bonus. You are implementing something extremely half a$$.

    Elemental words: all ****, we aren't casters and won't even notice a 10% increase in elemental damage.

    Lighting the candle: penalty unnecessary for such a teeny tiny increase in damage. Useless enhancement with penalty.

    Embrace the void: fluff ability, needs to be 1ap. Shield to weak at higher levels to allow meditation in combat. All monks will respec out at higher levels.

    Focus: doesn't work, duration so short is utter garbage in current state.

    Tier 5 abilities: wow! Finally something to redeem this awfull tree! Balance in dawn doesn't heal when enemy dies though, will be a great ability when its fixed. So hard to get to tier 5 considering all the **** in this tree.



    Shintao:

    What is this tree supposed to do? This tree reminds me of primal avatar ED. No clear focus and all over the place. It's not quite a tanking tree, as it offers very little to a monk tank. Monk tanks lack AC (there is none here, and Yes they DO lack AC compared to fighters/pallies), lack HPs (you give other tanks 20% and give us 3%?), and lack PRR (15 PRR doesn't come close to fighters shield, plate, etc. PRR). Yes we have evasion, but you are giving shields a type of evasion as well negating that advantage we once had. So in all the monk tank has nothing to offer vs a paladin/fighter tank with 50% higher AC and PRR, and 17% higher HP. Even saves are higher with a 2 paladin splash as the only way to benefit from the meditation of war is to be a pure monk.

    I hate all the abilities that have a save and consider them all ****, I play EE and DCs are unreachable there so why bother? Fix your game!

    Kukan-Do: change the charisma mod to wisdom allready, this is silly.

    Meditation of war: provide a tier 1 bonus for a heavy penalty, explain to me how this is a tier 5 ability? All of the benefits of this are given to every other class at tier 1 or 2 with no penalty, these are a joke.

    Violence begets violence, need i even explain how silly and useless this mechanic is? Just make it increase monk unarmed threat range by 1 and call it a day.

    Touch of the void dragon, at most (through taking 3 ranks in henshin tree) this provides 5 minutes per shrine of extra stats, make the bonus untyped and not insight so it will always be usefull considering its short duration.


    You guys have a lot of work to do here. Henshin needs to be like the thief acrobat tree or you need to make other monk abilities scale with spellpower, you can't half a$$ this. Shintao needs a lot of tanking buffs. Ninja Spy is looking good except for tier 5.
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  13. #153
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    Shintao:

    Kukan-Do: change the charisma mod to wisdom already, this is silly.

    Meditation of war: provide a tier 1 bonus for a heavy penalty, explain to me how this is a tier 5 ability? All of the benefits of this are given to every other class at tier 1 or 2 with no penalty, these are a joke.

    Violence begets violence, need i even explain how silly and useless this mechanic is? Just make it increase monk unarmed threat range by 1 and call it a day.

    Touch of the void dragon, at most (through taking 3 ranks in henshin tree) this provides 5 minutes per shrine of extra stats, make the bonus untyped and not insight so it will always be useful considering its short duration.

    Good suggestions. It would be nice to see some more HP boosting in the Tier 5 abilities for Shintao.

    Summarizing your post:

    1) Violence Begets Violence: Add Crit Range
    2) Do something with Meditation of War
    3) Kukan-Do: Change to WIS Mod
    4) Touch of the Void Dragon: Change to Untyped ability increase.

    In addition to your suggestions, My Thoughts:

    5) Touch of the Void Dragon: Please also consider giving Shintao Void Strike 1-3 so I can keep using Moment of Clarity when unlocking this ability
    6) Meditation of War: Add 10% HP Bonus and 10 PRR
    7) Make Quivering Palm Useful! Please give it the same save as Stunning Blow
    8) Violence Begets Violence: Please also add +1 Crit Multiplier as well as Crit Range


    I do like the new Deft strikes. It is a big improvement to TWF. Don't change it anymore.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

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  14. #154
    Founder Delacroix21's Avatar
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    Sorry for the rage posting, I was just ****ed to see defensive strikes on my monkarcher nerfed into oblivion.


    For more positive=
    Ninja Poison and the ninja training double throw stacking with shuriken expertise is AWESOME! Dev who coded that take a big freakin bow, you did something that I have been waiting for for 6 years= made a thrower viable!!!! =)


    That being said, lets not stop there, we need a bit more shuriken love in the tree, as I run into 2 huge problems=
    1. lack of shurikens in DDO (i have farmed 10 Commyrian shurikens)
    2. No way to bypass DRs (we need some arcane archer love here, like stances that make shurikens do blunt, metaline, etc.)
    3. Damage takes a huge nose dive against poison immune mobs, can we please make ninja poison supernatural or at least magical?


    Against undead/demons I find I am forced to put down the throwers and pick up my bow. =( I want to throw all day long! =)
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  15. #155
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    After some more play testing i can reaffirm this need for more shuriken enhancements. As is there are just to many mobs with varying DRs in the game that will cause the shuriken thrower a lot of grief.


    Also noticed that in this build throwers lost the "spell touched" quality, what gives? Throwing weapons need all the love they can get!


    Devs please add a enhancement that makes shurikens do untyped damage to bypass all DRs, there are just so few of them and there are no fears of there 1d2 20x2 being overpowered. I still strongly recommend that ninja poison be able to damage poison immune mobs in some way, it is where the bulk of shuriken damage comes from.
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  16. #156
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    Sorry for the rage posting, I was just ****ed to see defensive strikes on my monkarcher nerfed into oblivion.

    It had to change though. There was zero benefit to a pure monk except for being able to achieve massive PRR. I do quite like Deft strikes. between that and Perfect TWF, I see a nice uptick in offhand attacks. Maybe Monkchers will go after Henshin if they still have the passive Ki regeneration or back to Ninja?
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

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  17. #157
    Founder Delacroix21's Avatar
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    I found another bug today related to monk:

    My monk is a shiradi in prism stance with shurikens


    Occasionally shiradi process every light casts a shadow, except when the mob dies i lose 2 levels! (If I am close enough). Needs fixing please.
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  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atremus View Post
    It had to change though. There was zero benefit to a pure monk except for being able to achieve massive PRR. I do quite like Deft strikes. between that and Perfect TWF, I see a nice uptick in offhand attacks. Maybe Monkchers will go after Henshin if they still have the passive Ki regeneration or back to Ninja?
    You get 1 passive ki regen for 8 points in henshin, also use water stance for a bit more, the rest of the tree is preety bad for a monk archer. That being said i only use my bow now for manyshot, undead, and other poison immune. If they aren't immune to poison shurikens are amazing with the new triple throws. Against poison immune however even the triple throws can quite cut it do to shurikens having the lowest base damage, lowest crit range, and lowest crit multiplier in D&D.


    I actually never realized that before! They actually made the WORST weapon in DDO viable with the new triple throw plus poison, good job Devs!


    That being said ninja spy needs some more shuriken enhancements like the arcane archer. As it is now there are no ways for a thrower to bypass the different DRs or to stay viable against poison immune mobs. Against a mob like undead (DR plus poison immunity) the thrower just cries and hangs his head.
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  19. #159
    Community Member Meat-Head's Avatar
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    Default My Monk Feedback

    This is after looking at things for like 90 mins. So, not overly detailed, but not worthless.

    1. Ninjaspy is moderate. Right now Shadow Double doesn't work. It's 100% NOT working. I bug reported it. I tested it multiple times/ways. Also, Touch of Death is too expensive imo. It's far easier to get it on a splash right now on live. Lame. Also, I need more incentive to do short swords. Stunning fist is too good. So... either make SS better in tree OR make them ki-stunable. That's my opinion. We're close. But not quite there in the NS tree.

    2. Mystic: Spell power = lame. Staff stuph = good.

    3. Shintao: This tree SHOULD focus on tanking/support. I would increase the meditation of war PRR bonus by 5-10. Lack or PRR is the worst thing about monk tanks imo. Feel free to drop dodge a bit more as a penalty when activated too. Also, no AC bonuses here? 3% HP bonus is weak too. Fix the tanking stuff plox. This is kind of a big deal.



    I have a general opinion that you shouldn't be locked out of t5 abilities in your main class. Restrict them to only one CLASS as opposed to on TREE of one class.
    Last edited by Meat-Head; 07-29-2013 at 02:56 AM.
    KASHIL -- KASHILAH -- MATTAH -- MAHGANE -- KHYBER -- ANNIHILATION
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    First, Meat-Head is exactly correct...

  20. #160
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    I had another thought (un tested): Speed items eliminate Wind Stance. Everyone will be in Earth with a speed item equipped.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

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