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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hajutze View Post
    Has anyone tested if the shurikens are a viable option now ?

    BTW a bit disappointed - if you want to make a decent staff monk you need at least 1 level of rogue. The capstone just doesnt scale too well

    - +15% attack speed
    - Access to trap skills and enhancements for +100% of the speed for the trap disabling (still a nice perk xD)
    - Some sneak attack damage
    - Faster sneaking (it's not a must but if you take the monk one as well you will sneak as fast as regular running ...)

    against
    - +2 wisdom
    - +10 concentration
    - some passive ki regeneration

    It'd be all fine and dandy if you could just spam Spell-like abilities but they are both slow, have a big CD and deal .. fire damage for most of the part.

    To your first question yes Shuriken are viable with quickdraw, shuriken expertise, rapid shot and the poison ability from ninja spy. Outside of that stacking sneak attack is good and as such halflings easily come out ahead of dark elves for pure monk shuriken builds and if you don't get the Spy capstone halflings are loads better. Picking up Deepwood sniper from ranger will get you an increase to your SA range and more SA, assassin and rogue will get you more SA and a second poison ability to use with short swords.

    I have a 12 monk 6 ranger 2 rogue build that will transfer over perfectly to both cut it up in melee and be a perfect shuriken thrower.

    For your second bit I have suggested in another thread that the henshin capstone should at least have the 15% competence bonus to melee haste and it would be nice if it had a double strike component too. In addition I would really like to see level 1 core allow Henshin to use Wisdom to hit with qstaff and level 6 Core to damage to give you other options. That being said with Over Crit requiring 23 strength it may be a bad way to go.

  2. #82
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    I decided to try Halfling 12 monk/4 ranger/4 rogue with a Quarterstaff + Shurikens. The idea is to do something similar to Juggernaut (full trap skills, selfhealing, being able to both dish damage with melee and ranged attacks). While not being able to cast spells the monk finishers can replace that, I get some more PRR thanks to Shintao and I get the bonus of being able to sneak as fast as other characters can walk for the price of 7 AP (or being able to sneak 25% faster than they can run xD for 13 AP extra but those 13 AP is a bit too much).

  3. #83
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    Default my impressions

    so after testing the waters for the past few days primarily testing the monk enhancements i have finally gathered my thoughts on the changes.

    Shinto is good in my opinion although i do suggest adding some sort of negative to the defensive stance for everyone that is also removed with the capstone the deincentavize everyone and their brother from splashing 2 monk just to get the stance

    ninja spy is quite capable and actually makes a shuriken build at least reasonably appealing

    Heishen Mystic I really want to like this tree and with the direction it is taking i do like it but this tree also has many many problems. Primarily monks have no ability to CRIT with their slas add atleast some way in the tree to gain crit or buff the bass damages of the slas. Secondly no METAS this is another massive downside to the heishen tree with its slas as you are loosing 225 spell power right off the back so not only are you not critting you also are hitting quite weakly in comparison, I accept that a heishen caster monk shouldent be able to out dps a sorc as a heishen has infinite resources but as it is the slas feel like hitting a monster truck with a slightly dampened kitten. Recommendations to fix would be add extra spell power in the tree or fou "metas" that increase ki costs or at the least crit chances for the spells also another possible solution would be some sort of added cc or increased finisher duration.

  4. #84
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    Is it actually possible to increase deadly exploits to level 2/3

  5. #85
    Community Member Rusty_Can's Avatar
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    Anyone tested Flash Bang, lvl 3 enhancement in the Ninja Spy tree?

    Did some quick testing with my lvl 25 monk/5 GMoF in the King's Forest: my Drifting Lotus (DC 10 + character level + 1/2 WIS modifier) was landing as expected; Flash Bang (DC 18 + monk level + WIS modifier) was not. All the times, I saw twice the "save" feedback above my targets, consistent with the ability requiring two saves.

    Anyone else?
    On Thelanis: Hallelujah (Spellsinger) - Jerryrigged Juggernaut (caster FvS) - Sepulchral (Druid) - Chopchopchop (Warlock) - Alleyshadow (retired gimped monkcher). Formerly on Keeper : Misericordia (Thug) - Mumbo Jumbo (Battle Caster) - Infernal Can (WF Kinda Cleric) - Halleluyah (Melee Spellsinger).

  6. #86
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    Are there any hidden requirements for Shadow Double. I can't take it despite being lv12 monk (which includes both lv12 and 5 monk xD) and spending 32 points on the tree.

  7. #87
    Community Member psychokitten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty_Can View Post
    Anyone tested Flash Bang, lvl 3 enhancement in the Ninja Spy tree?

    Did some quick testing with my lvl 25 monk/5 GMoF in the King's Forest: my Drifting Lotus (DC 10 + character level + 1/2 WIS modifier) was landing as expected; Flash Bang (DC 18 + monk level + WIS modifier) was not. All the times, I saw twice the "save" feedback above my targets, consistent with the ability requiring two saves.

    Anyone else?
    I bugged it back during the first alpha testing. It doesn't even work on the kobolds in Durk's got a Secret. Acrobatic is still bugged as well, with the first rank not giving any dodge, the second rank giving 2% dodge, and the third not giving any dodge either.

    It looks like they haven't addressed anything but what looks to be the bard trees so far. Thief Acrobats are still paying more for their staff mastery than Henshins are.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychokitten View Post
    I bugged it back during the first alpha testing.
    Ok, it looked definitely not WAI to me.
    On Thelanis: Hallelujah (Spellsinger) - Jerryrigged Juggernaut (caster FvS) - Sepulchral (Druid) - Chopchopchop (Warlock) - Alleyshadow (retired gimped monkcher). Formerly on Keeper : Misericordia (Thug) - Mumbo Jumbo (Battle Caster) - Infernal Can (WF Kinda Cleric) - Halleluyah (Melee Spellsinger).

  9. #89
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    Monk: My feedback.

    1) There is a bug where you can take the "core" abilities, then back out the points from the other trees (on mage at least) and it doesn't grey back out, your core abilities. It doesn't give you the abilities, just graphical error.
    2) The Flash bang blind/stun egg just does not work in the ninja spy tree... I've tossed dozens of them, and with a DC55 save, nothing... not once... has ever failed a save. ever... Wait!!! A CR1 deer failed only the blind! NO stun.
    3) The added stun damage to the ninja spy tree seems... ... ... misplaced. If you're going to give poison on crit, and all these short sword bonuses, then LOCK OUT stunning fist on while using weapons. Maybe you put it there to force a choice, or force weapon swaps... But I just see it driving people/keeping people away from using weapons on the monk.
    4) The poison stance doesn't work with vorpal strikes. The tool tip says, it does... but, not so much. (Must have some way of doing slashing/piercing damage)
    5) Way of the monkey only gives +6 total resist, it reads like you'll get +8 but you don't.
    6) When I throw a flash bang, at deer, and other non-agressive monsters... it tosses it in CRAZY directions... But only at certain ranges, and some times. (Hard to reproduce, but It's done it several times.)
    7) When you reset a tree the costs just go up, and up, and up, to silly levels. I think it should be capped at like 20k.
    8) Agility says +3 to reflex, and dodge cap <-- CAP, my cap is still 25% on my character sheet. So, it's visual, or not working.


    Overall I LOVE the new system for the monk. It adds a lot of versatility.

    The blind egg could be cool, has a long cool down, and I spent the extra points for the "extra" dc, for nothing apparently. The ninja poison is a great idea. I can't see it offsetting the stun damage, but I MAY switch to swords on red names who cannot be stunned, to get the extra damage that you lose with stun. Pretty cool, not over the top. The bonuses to throwing is sweet, I think it stacks up for a big bonus to range on monks, but, we'll see.

    Few more tweaks and it will be a very welcome change. (I still don't see monks using anything but fists because of the loss of stun... if you fix it so ANY monk can stun, empty handed or not, then that will change.)

  10. #90
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    Oh, and since NOTHING is immune from poison, not even undead...

    It's fun to use my new magical poison on shadows.... Time for some pay back!

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    Oh, and since NOTHING is immune from poison, not even undead...

    It's fun to use my new magical poison on shadows.... Time for some pay back!
    The only worry I have is that it takes a bit of a time for the big poison numbers to kick in but I guess if you combine with sneak attack damage it doesn't matter a lot.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hajutze View Post
    The only worry I have is that it takes a bit of a time for the big poison numbers to kick in but I guess if you combine with sneak attack damage it doesn't matter a lot.
    apparently plants don't take poison damage... Sad face...

  13. #93
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    I dislike the prereq. for the Deadly exploits. You have to waste 8 AP on MELEE ONLY toggles =/ which chances are - you are never going to touch anyway. They have to unlink it and probably link it to the weapon-stance. It makes a lot more sense.

    And a side question, How is a shuriken build supposed to generate ki ... ocean stance and sneaking =/ ?
    Last edited by Hajutze; 07-04-2013 at 07:48 AM.

  14. #94
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    Default New Tier 5 Henshin ability?

    How about a Tier 5 Henshin passive ability Active Mind that allows you to move and meditate at the same time? So you get full benefit from your meditation if you decide to move, attack etc.

    This would make Embrace the Void and Focus worth taking.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    How about a Tier 5 Henshin passive ability Active Mind that allows you to move and meditate at the same time? So you get full benefit from your meditation if you decide to move, attack etc.

    This would make Embrace the Void and Focus worth taking.
    I like this idea.

    The only issue I could see being a problem would be there is no animation for it. I don't think a Dhalsim style levitate in meditation post and moving around the battlefield is going to sit well with some players.

    Attacks and other ability usage will break it of course, but yeah, it depends on if Turbine is willing to make the Henshin Mystic imitate Dhalsim in terms of animation.

    As I'm typing this, I think the issue might also be that there's a coding limitation right now that limits the Focus to the sphere it is first cast in (Like a stationary AOE) so it's impossible to move it around like an aura of a Paladin without some heavy code jiggery pokery that might be a bit late in the game to change for it right now.

    I-J1NG

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    apparently plants don't take poison damage... Sad face...
    The most efficient way of getting rid of persistent weeds in real life is poison go figure.. well that or having your wife slave in the garden all week, every week pulling weeds manually. I personally prefer the latter as it doesn't leave any toxins in the environment.
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  17. #97
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    For those complaining about Defensive Strikes being used by splashing 2 Monk worry not for you must be both unarmored AND wielding monk weapons so only people with at least 6 Levels of Fighter will be able to use it (unless your using unarmed or other Monk weapons....only Q-staff doesn't get the penalty) and even than its a large expenditure of AP, requires using your "one set of tier 5 abilities" in kensai. So yeah its potent but also only available to a small group of people.


    Edit: Correction you need at least EIGHT levels of fighter to get the centered with everything ability due to feat pre-reqs (Thx for the clarification Hajutze)


    Now I'd like to make a few notes about the Monk PrEs

    Shintao


    - Rise of the Phoenix is a cool ability but being able to raise dead using ki was the reason my friend went Shintao so how about making the tier 4 in that line a raise dead ability

    - The "Curatives"...having it apply to your healing burst ability is actually really cool...unfortunately only really difficulty at the beginning is really useful

    I'd like to see the line reworked

    So like this: Lesser Restoration -> Remove Negative levels & Death Penalties -> Remove blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, poisoned, curse and stunned. -> Raise Dead Ability -> Rise of the Phoenix

    Now like others have said the -9 minimum is pointless with out diehard...have rise of the phoenix have a diehard like effect (don't have it actually grant the die hard feat though, this is ONLY for when RoTP is triggered)...also the 100 ki requirement is ludicrous, this is a tier 5 ability I'd say just remove the Ki requirement entirely. Also I haven't had a chance to test it but I'm assuming the "fiery explosion" isn't just fluff and actually deals damage...please make this Force damage as Fire damage really is the most useless element in this game.

    The DR passiong is really nice and whilst the boni vs. tainted creatures is kinda meh I'd take the dr bypass alone so can't complain about more...also Jade

    Touch of the Void Dragon: This is pretty cool with a minimum +2 to all ability scores but the one minute duration kinda of kills it....5 minutes would be fair or have it work similar to rage

    The capstone unfortunately is quite weak...it's pretty much just +2 Wisdom if you don't use meditation off war and honestly meditation of war is useful ONLY with this capstone. The penalties are just to harsh for the

    The "Jade" line is actually pretty cool and the amount of creatures it affects in enough that it will be used quite often...also it just looks cool

    Ki shout is a nice addition as well as defensive strikes and it's various boost...violence begets violence is pretty badass basically every second you don''t crit your 5% more likely to crit

    Empty handed mastery confused me until I remembered that unarmed damage boosts has been switched to X[w] as opposed to die increases which makes this a really nice increase (my Druid12/Monk8 wants this to be a die increase as opposed to 1d6 -> 1d8 but I'm already doing 3[1d10] base damage so I'm ok with the way it is)

    Kukan-do is also a nice tier 5 ability..except you still have it as a Cha Mod for DC...now thematically I can see why it's this way but mechanically NO Single-class Monk is gonna have a high Cha Mod.

    The various skills boosts are of course build dependant but nice nonetheless

    The "Elemental Strikes" are cool as is dismissing strike

    Meditation of War: Great for a level 20 Shintao...at lvl 20 only...no one else will use big penalties small bonuses


    Overall Shintao has alot of potential to be a great tree it just needs a bunch of tweaks



    Ninja Spy


    This one is actually pretty simple...the tree is great in general just make a few changes

    1. Have ninja training apply to Monk weapons as well as Short swords
    2. Allow anything that says "must require slashing or piercing weapon" allows anything that makes unarmed slashing or piercing count here...ie. Vorpal Strikes, Brawling Gloves, Ivy Wraps,etc.)
    3. Have Ninja master apply to any monk weapon instead of just Kama's and shurikens

    Do that and the Tree will be perfect


    Henshin Mystic


    Seriously guys again with fire damage...convert the fire damage to force. Rename cauldron of fire to "Ki Cauldron"

    The elemental words line is worthless at most...I'd say make it a single enhancement...choose an element...done.

    Serenity is a perfect capstone change nothing here.

    Balance in Dawn this is great.

    Focus 30 seconds makes this useless as meditation takes 30 seconds...IOW you deal more damage whilst you meditate...great. Also very few people meditate mid battle

    +1/+1 to any ability score...perfect imo all stat bonuses should be any score for classes.

    In general this tree is ok but the uselessness of fire and elemental words makes it quite meh...fix that and your golden
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 07-05-2013 at 05:12 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    For those complaining about Defensive Strikes being used by splashing 2 Monk worry not for you must be both unarmored AND wielding monk weapons so only people with at least 6 Levels of Fighter will be able to use it (unless your using unarmed or other Monk weapons....only Q-staff doesn't get the penalty) and even than its a large expenditure of AP, requires using your "one set of tier 5 abilities" in kensai. So yeah its potent but also only available to a small group of people.
    There will be a large numbers of Players heading down this path.

    Also you may like to note:
    18Sorc2mnk, 18Wiz2mnk, 18fvs2mnk, all caster variants wielding staffs.......
    Monkchers that primarily use Ranged.

    The way this enhancement is now it will be very very useful (more likely a must have enhancement with 10AP spend) for splashed toons and be one that any pure or near pure TWF/unarmed monk will steer clear of.

    It is an extremely potent enhancement for splashes.....

    Here is an example.
    On live I have a pure or near pure fighter that wields an ESOS. He can wear heavy armor and net however much PRR from it.
    I can now build this as per this enhance pass as a 12fighter/6paladin(or whatever)2mnk and be centred and net myself the 50 PRR + 5% dodge (the PRR is probably more than I could get with heavy armor) the other in stance benefits (Dbl strike from Wind stance) (Increased HP/PRR and Crit Multiplier in earth stance 3) as well as net myself other splashed benefits from monk (evasion, saves, heal amp from shintao tree etc) and the other class I plan on taking.
    I have a 25% dodge cap which I can the go and wholeheartedly try and fill up - 5% from Defensive strikes, 8% from my Dunrobar ring, gosh I'm halfway there already.....
    This feat as it stands pushes players towards building centred THF splashed Kensais... this is a fact, if you think only a few people that previously played Kensais will be gravitating towards this type of build post enhance pass I think you will be very surprised by the number that will, especially if this enhancement stays as it is now.
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  19. #99
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoasterHops View Post
    There will be a large numbers of Players heading down this path.

    Also you may like to note:
    18Sorc2mnk, 18Wiz2mnk, 18fvs2mnk, all caster variants wielding staffs.......
    Monkchers that primarily use Ranged.
    Except very few casters use Staves...2 1-handed implements = x2 enhancements...also splashing loses the capstone...both the Sorc capstone and the FvS are quite potent.


    Monkchers won't work anymore because from what I can tell Thousand Stars is gone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Except very few casters use Staves...2 1-handed implements = x2 enhancements...also splashing loses the capstone...both the Sorc capstone and the FvS are quite potent.


    Monkchers won't work anymore because from what I can tell Thousand Stars is gone.
    Plenty of casters use staves especially Twilight from CitW, of course its also possible to find the necessary caster stats on Kamas.
    As for FVS max DC favored souls splash monk........

    More and more casters are splashing in live as the splash outweighs the capstone, by releasing enhancements such as this it only further encourages splashing.

    Monkchers will still exist, I think 10000 stars is meant to be converted to a feat.

    If this enhancement goes live like this it would make sense to splash 2 monk on your caster and reap the massive defensive benefits that the PRR, dodge and evasion (+ monk base saves) will net you.
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