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  1. #21
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    Only in Shintao? Not good.

  2. #22
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    Not really sure how the cores work. Can you pick cores from 2 trees ? (should be able to ? Since they simulate PrEs)

    The Shintao has a couple of goodies so spending some AP on it is not as bad as it looks (9 AP = 50 PRR +5% dodge and +75% morale to hate gen with no drawback for THF players, for 3 more AP you can get +15 lp, concentration and fortitude so you can get up to the 3rd core for +15% amp)
    Last edited by HajutzeBG; 05-08-2013 at 01:47 PM.

  3. #23
    Community Member ~Grubbby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HajutzeBG View Post
    Not really sure how the cores work. Can you pick cores from 2 trees ? (should be able to ? Since they simulate PrEs)

    The Shintao has a couple of goodies so spending some AP on it is not as bad as it looks (9 AP = 50 PRR +5% dodge and +75% morale to hate gen with no drawback for THF players, for 3 more AP you can get +15 lp, concentration and fortitude so you can get up to the 3rd core for +15% amp)
    Yes, I built a light monk with all Shintao core abilities and up to Shadow Veil from the ninja spy core abilities. It worked fine on the Lam alpha.
    The poster formerly known as TPICKRELL.... Hopefully will be again if Turbine support ever gets it straightened out. .. Grubby WF Shintao, Grubonon Human HAMP Shintao, GrubbyDark Halfling Ninja Spy, GrubbSmash Horc soon to be Henshin, GrubbyTrap Monk/Rogue/Fighter, Gralak Shirardi Sorc (soon to be PM Wiz again) and other Grubs... All on Khyber

  4. #24
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    Hm 15% amp is less than what i get for 6 ap on live (and hate gen would be a huge drawback for me). Ninja Spy has many things I would want so this is going to be difficult.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrdal View Post
    Hm 15% amp is less than what i get for 6 ap on live (and hate gen would be a huge drawback for me). Ninja Spy has many things I would want so this is going to be difficult.
    It's 15% more than you'll have if you don't get it.

  6. #26
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    Right but this thread is to give feedback. My feedback is that i want access to heal amp without needing to waste points in a tree that i dont care about.

  7. #27

    Default It's a Hot Mess

    I've tried to like it. I do like quite a bit of it, but I have some thoughts with the brief gameplay I was able to do with it.

    • Monk Stances as Feats: This overpowers the class. You're giving EVERY stance to every Monk as they level? Wasn't the purpose of having these as enhancements as limited to avoid overpowering the class? In Live, you could take all four Grandmasters but at the sacrifice of capstone or Void IV. Feat-based stances should be similarly available, at a price. Otherwise, you're making the class as just another fighter.
    • Ninja Spy Attacks: Interesting for the new attacks. But poison? Is it supernatural or magical so it works like FR Drow poisons? Otherwise, this is hardly useful. I like the Diversion ability.
    • A Ninja spends 30 AP only to get Crippling Strike? Yuck. How about an ability where Quivering Palm does not take a Ninja out of stealth and adds a little more to sneak attack DC?
    • Isn't there a Void attack at low level for any Monk? Otherwise you cannot do the void-based finishers. Do not like missing less Void Strikes and certainly not Void Strike on Henshin side. Taking the former Ninja debuffers just for Void is silly.
    • I liked "Dance of the Water Strider" water running? Why get rid of it? You can find a spot for it, if only adding it to an upper-rank in an ability.
    • Why redundant trees in the Prestige panels for some abilities?
    • Opposing Philosophy strikes: Remember these from the rough-in. A good addition.
    • Henshin "No-Sell": Quarterstaff fighting is still bludgeoning. What benefit has it over unarmed (bludgeoning) since it is also slower? Why a fire-only imbue that will be useless against high-end Heroic levels (Amrath, for starters)? Haven't you seen "Matrix Reloaded's" Burly Brawl? THAT was staff fighting. Add more elemental imbues (one at a time, and as you level)
    • Healing amp for non-human, non-Shintao Monks: Where did it go? We haven't more HP, so we need more of this inherently.
    • Defensive Strikes: Very nice for more defense, a welcome but expensive addition.
    • Light Monks are a party support class. Rise of the Phoenix should remain as Raise Dead and not a self-serving "invulnerablity." Not everyone multiclasses, has resources to make clickies or anything else for Raise Dead. Don't gimp the class's purpose and role with a fighter-minded revamp.
    • Forcing use of Human Versatility/Adaptability in core racial enhancements: Do not like. Not everyone cares for these, at any time.
    Last edited by Spencerian; 05-08-2013 at 06:45 PM.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more
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  8. #28
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    Overall, I was very pleased with the Monk enhancement trees. I played primarily a Shintao with a splash of Ninja Spy, though I did make a separate build to test Henshin.

    Ninja Spy:
    Their core abilities say they function with slashing and piercing weapons, but do not work with unarmed when you have the piercing or slashing damage type. This is probably by design, but I encourage you to reword it if it is. Otherwise, I found it a very useful tree to splash in and have no other complaints. I play a light monk and I didn't like how Sneak Attack was gated by fists of darkness.

    Henshin:
    I tried playing this as a caster of sorts, fueling my "mana" with occasional melee. Overall, it's ineffective in that role. Spellcasters use a myriad of metamagic feats to boost their damage spells, none of which Henshin has access to or take advantage of.

    Shintao:
    This tree I have a few complaints with. First off, Meditation of War and Defensive Strikes being mutually exclusive seems unintentional. If it is WAI, the Shintao capstone should remove of reduce the penalty of Defensive Strikes as well. I will also voice my concern about the capstone being nothing more than a +2 to wisdom if you opt out of Meditation of War. I like the boost it gives right now, but it should probably give something minor, in addition. Lastly, Shintao is heavily focused on Defensive Strikes in the early levels. I feel like this is poor design, since you will have players that love War stance, and never want to use Defensive Strikes, and are forced spend points on skill boosts and healing ki moves. If they're a dark monk, they HAVE to spend points on Defensive strikes, points they will never take advantage of.


    In summary, very pleased with everything, minus a few minor gripes.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonsquall View Post
    Ninja Spy:
    Their core abilities say they function with slashing and piercing weapons, but do not work with unarmed when you have the piercing or slashing damage type. This is probably by design, but I encourage you to reword it if it is.
    Better make it work with handwraps.

  10. #30
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    If you take 2 levels of ranger and spend some AP on the deepwood line I think you can make the dex build work with the wraps but you'll have to waste a weapon for finesse too.

    Improved Weapon Finesse: You can use your Dexterity modifier for damage when wielding melee weapons with which you can use your Dexterity modifier to hit.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by HajutzeBG View Post
    If you take 2 levels of ranger and spend some AP on the deepwood line I think you can make the dex build work with the wraps but you'll have to waste a weapon for finesse too.

    Improved Weapon Finesse: You can use your Dexterity modifier for damage when wielding melee weapons with which you can use your Dexterity modifier to hit.
    I tried this, and it also doesn't work, even though that one definitely should. I bugged it, but this isn't the forum to be discussing ranger enhancements.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonsquall View Post
    I tried this, and it also doesn't work, even though that one definitely should. I bugged it, but this isn't the forum to be discussing ranger enhancements.
    I think NONE of the DEX to damage enhancements actually work right now (from what I've read the halfling one for shurikens and the monk one for slash/pierce do not work, I can only assume the ranger one doesn't work as well)

    BTW on paper does a shuriken only character seems viable (viable = less suck-ish than a ranged only artificer) or do you have to go ranging/melee split again ?

  13. #33
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    Default Brawliong gloves add slashing?

    The Brawling Gloves (from Crystal Cove) add slashing damage to unarmed attacks. Would that allow the ninja stuff that requires slashing/peircing to work with handwraps?

    Geoff.

  14. #34
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    For the most part, I'm fine with Shintao and Ninja Spy as they are. So most of my comments will be for Henshin.

    The use of Mystic Training seems kind of superfluous since it's most going to work on dark moves, Breath of the Fire Dragon, and Shining Star. For 2 AP each, this may as well go to ki DC, rather than just finishing moves.

    Embrace the Void's third tier could allow movement at about 50% of base speed, and end once you take damage / interact with something.

    Henshin is going to fall so far behind on the other two in regards to DPS with a quarterstaff, while only gaining a +6 to damage and +4 to hit. Even Ninja Spies will pull far ahead of this with their offhand strikes. The importance of dexterity may make Wind Stance preferable for the Ninja Spies, giving them a chance at even faster attacks, and doublestrike chance as well. Henshin could, a la Acrobat, use a boost to attack speed.

    Lastly, the stances. I'm not sure how I stand on them being feats. However, I can most certainly understand why this happened. Fitting all four of those into each tree just complicates things. With that said, though, I think that the prerequisites to using them should remain as they are on Live. Want to use the master stance of something? Best have 16 of a particular ability score. A wizard needs to have a certain intelligence score in order to use a spell of a particular level. Likewise, a monk should have a certain base need (base + tome) to use a particular stance. A wizard has to be smart enough to understand how a spell works, so too a monk should be hardy enough to endure the damage a particular stance would require of him. The same can be said about the other stances as well.

  15. #35
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    Question for anyone who has lammania working


    How do the feats work for the elemental stances?

    Do you have to use a feat per tier? Or do you just take it once and you receive the higher stances at a certain level.
    Last edited by moo_cow; 05-25-2013 at 05:29 PM.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by moo_cow View Post
    Question for anyone who has lammania working


    How do the feats work for the elemental stances?

    Do you have to use a feat per tier? Or do you just take it once and you receive the higher stances at a certain level.
    You attain Adept stances at level 6, Master at 12, and Grandmaster at 18. All of these are auto-granted. Feat and ki strike, and allowed regardless of your base + inherent bonus. However, this was only viewable during the enhancement preview.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Requiem View Post
    Henshin is going to fall so far behind on the other two in regards to DPS with a quarterstaff, while only gaining a +6 to damage and +4 to hit. Even Ninja Spies will pull far ahead of this with their offhand strikes. The importance of dexterity may make Wind Stance preferable for the Ninja Spies, giving them a chance at even faster attacks, and doublestrike chance as well. Henshin could, a la Acrobat, use a boost to attack speed.
    I plan on splashing 1 rogue/1 something else and getting the acrobat's 15% attack speed bonus.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  18. #38
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    Sorry but i still don't get this: if i have ninja training and the feat vorpal strikes on, will i be able to use dex for attack and damage on handwraps?

  19. #39
    Community Member Magil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quiete View Post
    Sorry but i still don't get this: if i have ninja training and the feat vorpal strikes on, will i be able to use dex for attack and damage on handwraps?
    That's a good question. I don't think there's a real answer yet. Does Vorpal Strikes make your weapon slashing, or just add a slashing enhancement? I suppose it would depend on how the enhancement and feat work.

  20. #40
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    I'm not a fan of the 40% hit from Defensive Strikes...seems excessive. At a minimum it should be waived if you get the capstone like meditation of war. Also, did I miss the healing shield from Fists of Light? Was that left out? I wouldn't view that ability as OP.

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