Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 189
  1. #41
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    4,597

    Default

    Sacred Defender is to defensive and not enough DPS or even burst DPS

    Divine Might and Sacred Stance Strength not stacking is just wrong

    Sacred Defender Capstone is not desirable over Weapons of Good (Did you not listen when people complained about Divine Intervention when it first came out). Paladins are already hard to kill, we don' need an Enhancement version of the Die hard Feat.

    currently the best option for me is 39/41 SC/KotC and I'm still not happy with it as I lose saves, ac and prr just to maintain some DPS.

  2. #42
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    Sacred Defender is to defensive and not enough DPS or even burst DPS

    Divine Might and Sacred Stance Strength not stacking is just wrong

    Sacred Defender Capstone is not desirable over Weapons of Good (Did you not listen when people complained about Divine Intervention when it first came out). Paladins are already hard to kill, we don' need an Enhancement version of the Die hard Feat.

    currently the best option for me is 39/41 SC/KotC and I'm still not happy with it as I lose saves, ac and prr just to maintain some DPS.
    IMO this pass just makes it so that Pali's are only usefull for a 2 level splash and nothing else.

    I'm not sure why they are nerfing sword and board so hard... it's already among the weakest playstyles in the game... I'm guessing they saw that the large majority of Pali's were taking DOS, and wrongfully concluded that it's over powered... instead of concluding that it's just better of three poor options on a class that is feat starved, AP starved, has anemic DPS even when you go all out DPS.

    IMO The best Pali build in the game is a 6 FvS and mid teens Fighter, or Bladeforged with recontruct SLA and only 2 levels of Pali.

    Oh well I'm over my Pali, 4 complete LR re-do's and a TR and I parked it at 23 and stripped of account bound stuff months ago.

  3. #43
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    175

    Default

    Well technically Paladins are still decent if you need more HP ... +20% hp is a nice boost (well you have to give up 30ish AP for it but still xD at least you get +6 res some AC and some PRR along with it)

  4. #44
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hajutze View Post
    Well technically Paladins are still decent if you need more HP ... +20% hp is a nice boost (well you have to give up 30ish AP for it but still xD at least you get +6 res some AC and some PRR along with it)
    You're really grasping at straws.

    DOS and Stalwart are garbage.

  5. #45
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    175

    Default

    Well they seem bad compared to defensive strikes, but don't you have to be centered for the later ? (So either kensei or quarterstaff)

  6. #46
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,697

    Default

    Here are my more detailed suggestions on how to improve the Sacred Defender tree. As I stated previously, a Defender needs some DPS to be useful in 95% of the content of DDO where you just need DPS.

    Core Abilities:
    1) Problem: Eternal Defender is really lame. If you manage a fight appropriately, a Paladin tank with their PRR and AC can manage the reduction in hit points and hit themselves with Glorious Stand and shortly after that Lay on Hands to get out of trouble. I can't remember any time where being able to go to -50HP would have been helpful. As a long-time Paladin Defender, I will never waste APs on this ability, but want Weapons of Good instead.
    1) Suggestion: Replaced Eternal Defender with Weapons of Good.

    2) Problem #2: Divine Righteousness is meh at best. I'll never, ever use it. I've play tested with it quite a bit on live, and even while tanking red names don't ever find I need it.
    2) Suggestion: Replace with anything else.

    Tier 1:
    3) Problem: Who is going to bother with Item Defense?
    3) Suggestion: Replace Item Defense with Exhalted Smite, so you're not forced to take it from the Knight line if you don't want to.

    4) Problem: Saves aura seems interesting, but what will it be used for? So a Paladin can run through a trap? That doesn't seem very Paladin like.
    4) Suggestion: Due to my later suggestions, put the stat point enhancement here.

    Tier 2:
    5) Problem: Defense Boost is just too short to bother with, not when you can use Glorious Stand instead.
    5) Suggestion: Replace Defense Boost with Exhalted Smite for more DPS.

    Tier 3:
    6) Problem: The strength bonus in Greater Sacred Defense not stacking with Divine Might makes it worthless.
    6) Suggestion: Make the strength bonus you receive based on your charisma modifier. Tier 1 could be 1/3 of your charisma modifier, tier 2 could be 2/3 of your modifier and tier 3 your full charisma modifier.

    7) Problem: The stat bonus is okay, but not that great.
    7) Suggestion: Instead, I'd rather see another tier of Exalted Smite.

    Tier 4:
    8) Problem: Spell Resistance is near useless. I have play tested with it quite a bit, and never find it that helpful.
    8) Suggestion: Replace Spell Resistance with Exalted Smite.

    9) Problem: Instinctive Defense just doesn't do enough to bother putting APs into.
    9) Suggestion: Add the Divine Sacrifice line for more DPS. Also, Divine Sacrifice needs more DPS for tiers II and III, so these should be increased to do something more noticeable in higher level quests.

    Tier 5:
    10) Problem: Defensive Smiting doesn't seem that great for a tier 5 ability. I'd rather put points into other abilities. Extra temporary hit points are generally not going to be that helpful. A good Paladin tank can manage their incoming damage and heal themselves as needed.
    10) Suggestion: I like the idea of a better smite at tier 5, but it should be DPS focused instead. Not exactly sure what.

    Well, that's it. Hope this helps
    Aryk Stoutheart, Paladin - Sarlona
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler - Sarlona
    Vyyndar Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin - Argo

  7. #47
    Community Member whiteline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Butner,NC
    Posts
    93

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    It's part of the core abilities (number 4 I believe) in the defender tree. It now adds the spell (along with resurrection and true resurrection) to your spell list.

    Of course they've made it so paladin can use scrolls for all those things even without UMD so I don't see much point to it anymore.
    Thanks I must have missed it but I did find it today that give you the spell to cast
    Squeak's Army

  8. #48
    Hero
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    not suffering fools gladly
    Posts
    3,577

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hajutze View Post
    Well technically Paladins are still decent if you need more HP ... +20% hp is a nice boost (well you have to give up 30ish AP for it but still xD at least you get +6 res some AC and some PRR along with it)
    The opportunity cost of +20% HP is too high compared to other U19 options.
    U19 Kensei: Centered Cleaver | TR Junkie Leveling Framework

    ~Ying~ (10 lives), ~Hamada~(9 lives), ~Vadanken~ (6 lives), ~Kobeyashi~ (10 lives)
    Over Raided of Orien, First Level 100 Guild

  9. #49
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    The opportunity cost of +20% HP is too high compared to other U19 options.
    Such as?

    If the argument is fighters--yes, paladins are weaker offensively than fighters, but having high saves (and potentially the same stat driving damage) could be interesting. They also have access to more reasonable healing amp. Am I missing something?

    I must be, because I'm also seeing people saying things like divine might and the stance str aren't stacking, when the wiki seems to say that the stance is competence and divine might is sacred o.O.
    Last edited by sandypaws; 07-07-2013 at 05:21 PM.
    Cannith, Slicing Blow. Vilenna (18/1/1 Clonkard), Marvala (20 monk), Phrenia (19/1 rogue/fighter), Malchara (12/6/2 AA), Denaria (18/2 ...wonk?)

  10. #50
    Hero
    2015 DDO Players Council
    Krelar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sandypaws View Post
    I must be, because I'm also seeing people saying things like divine might and the stance str aren't stacking, when the wiki seems to say that the stance is competence and divine might is sacred o.O.
    That's what the descriptions say but they are both currently typed as sacred. We have never gotten any acknowledgment if this is a bug or WAI. My guess is this is WAI (mostly because the strength bonus on live right now is sacred,unless they change there minds) and that someone just copy/pasted the description from stalwart.

  11. #51
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    That's what the descriptions say but they are both currently typed as sacred. We have never gotten any acknowledgment if this is a bug or WAI. My guess is this is WAI (mostly because the strength bonus on live right now is sacred,unless they change there minds) and that someone just copy/pasted the description from stalwart.
    12/6/2 paladin in stalwart stance with DM and HoTD perks, here we come.
    Cannith, Slicing Blow. Vilenna (18/1/1 Clonkard), Marvala (20 monk), Phrenia (19/1 rogue/fighter), Malchara (12/6/2 AA), Denaria (18/2 ...wonk?)

  12. #52
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    4,597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sandypaws View Post
    Such as?

    ....

    I must be, because I'm also seeing people saying things like divine might and the stance str aren't stacking, when the wiki seems to say that the stance is competence and divine might is sacred o.O.
    I also was skeptical when I read it on the forum and looked at them in the enhancements. They appear to read like they will stack.

    However, when you put them to action they did not.

    My Paladin had a 44 Strength with stance - Activating Divine Might with a +8 Charisma Modifier you would Expect to see a 52 (44 +8) Strength, instead it was 46. Based on that It would be better to not take the Strength Stance Enhancements and just take DM with endless Turning.

  13. #53
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    I also was skeptical when I read it on the forum and looked at them in the enhancements. They appear to read like they will stack.

    However, when you put them to action they did not.

    My Paladin had a 44 Strength with stance - Activating Divine Might with a +8 Charisma Modifier you would Expect to see a 52 (44 +8) Strength, instead it was 46. Based on that It would be better to not take the Strength Stance Enhancements and just take DM with endless Turning.
    Guys, fellow long suffering Paladin players: please do the math on Divine Might putting points into Charisma, I think you'll be unhappy with what you find.

    There are hardly any scenarios I can see where you're getting more than +3 damage or +4 damage if Drow. where you wouldn't be better off putting those build points in STR. Or where you aren't paying a severe price.

    Take a simple example, first life Human Just say we Max STR and MAX con. STR using build points is obviously MUCH cheaper than Strength through Divine might is. This leaves no points for CHA so starting at 8 CHA we add a +4 Tome a +8 item +2 exceptional = 22 Charisma That is +6 to your strength or +3 to hit and damage. Previously 20 CHA was enough for Divine Might IV which was 8 damage, so we've gotten back less than half.

    Now you want more CHA, so you drop what? CON down to 16... gives you 6 build points, which takes you from 8 up to 14 CHA, that is a +2 modifier equaling 1 point of to hit and damage that just cost you 6 build points. So you just paid 6 build points to go from +3 to +4.

    If you want to bring CHA up more, well we can't use STR that would be dumb as even at 3 for 1 point buy STR is far cheaper to raise directly than indirectly through Divine Might, so we need to take more points out of CON. But wait CHA is a 2 for 1 point buy past 14 (unless Drow), to get two more CHA (or +1 STR or +0.5 more to hit and damage) we need 4 build points, dropping CON to 14 does that.

    Now you've paid 10 build points to make Divine Might +1.5 better than if we leave it as a dump stat...

    On a 2X TR you can use the +4 build points for the above (and keep your CON at a marginal 14), OR do the above AND add the TR points to CHA to get you to 17 CHA you need to round up to 18 by dropping CON down to 12.

    At 18 CHA you have +4 CHA modifier for +2 to hit and damage at a cost of SIXTEEN BUILD POINTS

    EDIT: D&D is hard made the same mistakes in two different threads (STR and STR mod mix ups)
    Last edited by Ironclans_evil_twin; 07-09-2013 at 09:44 PM. Reason: corrected my dumb D&D conversion errors

  14. #54

    Default

    Even if it were a minor nerf it would be worth it for the faster casting and longer duration. My actual pally on live isn't nerfed at all by this, happily, because he's a THF:

    15 base +3 tome = DM3 = +0 to hit +6 damage

    15 base +3 tome +2 ship +6 item = 26 cha = 8 cha mod = +8 str = +4 to hit +6 damage.

    So he gets the same damage boost but a brand new +4 to hit. Works for me. It also means +4 tactical DCs if you have a tactics-oriented pally. (Or a desire to make one now that pallies get str bonuses.)

    The crushing nerf to my pally is the removal of devotion except for the garbage sacred defender tree. My pally isn't a tank; why should he have to throw points away on the tank tree for devotion?

  15. #55
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Even if it were a minor nerf it would be worth it for the faster casting and longer duration. My actual pally on live isn't nerfed at all by this, happily, because he's a THF:

    15 base +3 tome = DM3 = +0 to hit +6 damage

    15 base +3 tome +2 ship +6 item = 26 cha = 8 cha mod = +8 str = +4 to hit +6 damage.

    So he gets the same damage boost but a brand new +4 to hit. Works for me. It also means +4 tactical DCs if you have a tactics-oriented pally. (Or a desire to make one now that pallies get str bonuses.)

    The crushing nerf to my pally is the removal of devotion except for the garbage sacred defender tree. My pally isn't a tank; why should he have to throw points away on the tank tree for devotion?
    What did you lose for 15 base over dump stating it? 34 hit points? for 0.25 to hit and damage? 15 CHA is half a modifier, or half a STR point or 0.25 to hit and damage gained. (3 con = 34 hp)

    Posted the below breakdown in the nerf thread, I don't see a way to trade build points for CHA past 14 (exc. Drow 16) that wouldn't be more costly in hit points and real STR than the gain from DM is worth and thus better spent on other things. And this break down assumes you need no skill points with dump stat INT DEX and WIS if you need more than 1 skill point per level it gets much worse:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    It's hard to explain just how bad a value this can be if you give up even a couple points to get over 14 CHA, let me try again:

    Droping CON from 18 to 16 to make CHA go from 8 to 14 takes away 23 hit points and gives +1 to hit and damage this is probably worth it if you ignore how this leaves everything else dumped (INT DEX and WIS are all 8 if you don't do this the relative build point value gets even worse).

    Droping STR from 18 to 16 to make CHA go from 8 to 14, takes away +1 to hit and damage to gain temporary +1 to hit and damage, this is clearly a poor trade.

    To get even ONE MORE +1 to hit and damage from CHA mod (before gearing and tomes) in addition to the +1 we've gained from taking dump stat CHA from 8 up to 14 , we need 18 CHA:

    That requires dropping 18 STR to 16 AND Con from 16 to 14 now you've Dumped every other stat, and traded +1 to hit and damage AND 46 hit points, to gain +2 to hit and damage.

    You have 8 Dex, 8 INT and 8 Wis. If you drop CON down to 13 to gain 2 build points you're in gimp territory. If you drop STR down from 16 to 15 for the same 2 build points you've Given up +1.5 to hit and damage and 46 hit points to gain 1 skill point +2 to hit and damage with a limited duration, a cool down and X number of uses.

    If you want another 2 points (say into INT for 12 INT for skill points to use for Heal spell power skill) you've traded +2 to hit and damage 46 hit points for +2... We've barely moved into realistic build territory and it's already a bad trade off.

    Getting a natural +2 to hit and damage out of Divine Might from character build choices requires: maxing CHA at 18 this gives a return of +2 to hit and damage at a build point cost of 16 build points

    +2 to hit and damage at a build point cost of 16 build points


    The only case that Divine might is a good value is a dumped CHA (starting with 8) and then gearing and +4 tome for 22 = +3 to hit and damage. Or +4 on a Drow. 1 for 1 point buy (14 CHA or 16 on a Drow) is a trade off that requires having 3 dump stats and no skill points.

    Anything else is a bad deal. So it's a new player trap. and a fairly nerfed ability. Remember there's no reason that Divine Might on live couldn't have a fast animation... The two are not connected to each other at all. There's also no reason they couldn't double the duration.

    The right thing to do is make Divine Might straight CHA mod to damage, so an 18 CHA would be +4 damage, with the new duration and casting speed. Gear and Tome this up for a nice 8 or 9 damage boost. Pali's need boosts not nerfs.
    Last edited by Ironclans_evil_twin; 07-10-2013 at 03:49 PM.

  16. #56

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    What did you lose for 15 base over dump stating it? 34 hit points? for 0.25 to hit and damage? 15 CHA is half a modifier, or half a STR point or 0.25 to hit and damage gained.
    I'm not sure I understand your question. Dump-stating cha would mean no divine might at all, so that would cost me 6 damage per swing. My strength is already base 18 with all 6 levelups, so there is no more strength to be had. (On a first-life 28pt build it's 16 base str instead of 18.)

    Dex and wis are indeed dump stats, but I go with base 10 int on a human for 3 skill points per level, 4 from level 7 on when the +2 tome kicks in. Though I'll need to find a way to up that to 12 when the enhancement pass hits so I can max heal. *sigh*

    Posted the below breakdown in the nerf thread, I don't see a way to trade build points for CHA past 14 (exc. Drow 16) that wouldn't be more costly in hit points and real STR than the gain from DM is worth and thus better spent on other things.
    Meh. I showed you my breakdown. I suppose I could up my cha tome from +3 to +4, lower my base cha from 15 to 14, and kick my con up from 14 to 15, but 1 point of con isn't going to do anything for me.

    In all likelihood what I'll probably do is up the cha tome to +4, drop base cha from 15 to 14, and use those 2 points to kick my base int up to 12 for heal. (EDIT: Actually nvm, he's a second life so I'll probably keep his stats the same and just tr him into a 3rd life, getting a "free" extra 2 points for int.)

    I've never been overly impressed with the ROI of spending 4 build points to get con from 14 to 16.

  17. #57
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10

    Default

    With the new purple dragon knights, you can forgo the divine might etc altogether, and only get strength for feats and carrying stuff.

    It seems like my pally builds seem to be getting drawn into "how to make charisma do more".

    Charisma to damage:
    Divine might
    Now also Cormyean knight training

    Charisma to hitpoints:
    Lay on hands/Extra lay on hands
    Now also Eternal Defender

    Charisma to saves:
    Divine vitality
    Force of Personality

    +1 charisma modifier seems to do so much now on a pally.

  18. #58

    Default

    I can understand why people who play paladin tanks are upset considering the old capstone is placed in the other tree and a new is created for defender.

    It's similar to what's happening to the fighter and Arti (and I would assume any class that had only 1 capstone).

    Personally I abhor this change. It makes it very hard to add some additional dps and features to tank builds who are suffering dps wise as it is and in many ways are still as irrelevant high tier due to the scale of damage even against tanks with superb AC and PRR.

    I don't play a paladin tank so at least the dps paladin build I got now will benefit from some of the changes, but they're minor and this enhancement pass highlights something important - we might not have had the full scales of all PREs before but the new enhancement system greatly restricts builds moreso then they did before.

    Forcing people more into restricted class builds then before with less freedom to mix it up. Like my fighter tank that I've added some DPS too in order to go from tank to dps on the fly. Now in order to be as 'tanky' as before I will have to lose out on a radical amount of dps in the process. Making it quite restricted and with the loss of flexibility.

  19. #59
    Community Member bloodnose13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    421

    Default bad realy bad...... but with hope for the best

    i dont want to offend anyone, but i have to say that....... paladin enchancments SCREAM lazy, they ooze lazy.

    90% of enchancements available to paladins in those new trees are same things that are accessible atm on live servers, JUST with the fact of being spread out to separate trees and enchancements (its most visible how lazy it is after looking at other classes enchancement trees), i play paladin tanks mostly and it hurts me to be treated by other players like like nessesary evil only for raids that require a tank, and thats currently on live, paladins dont do much damage and tank paladins struggle to have any dps at all, this new enchancement system takes away even that, the so called sacred defender is just a wall that has to fall on enemy to hurt him!!!!

    -----------

    the stance given by all tiers of defender of syberys on live costs 4+2+2 ap for all tiers, and gives considerable defence to paladin,
    stance from new system "sacred defence" costs 1 point to unlock BUT it costs 27!!!!!! action points to gain same things given by old stance, its crazy!!! seriously it looks like someone didint had idea what to do with that prestige, sure there are some advantages to new system, some gain in ac but its not ENOUGH to justify this way of distributing it.

    another thing that is plainly wrong is the fact of placeing ONLY class heal amplification only in the knight of chalice tree and so HIGH in it so its impossible to "twist" it into defender, what was ridicolously easy in "OLD" current live system in here is impossible without gimping tank in process, so there is a small gain in ac (that does not give much at high values anyway since few point gain compared to what is on live means very little in defence %) loseing 30% heal class heal amp HURTS a lot, lot more than few points of ac.

    another problem is takeing away smites, divine sacrifice, i can understand divine might, but COME ON SMITES????? realy? its one of BIGGEST SYMBOLS OF paladin, and to say it bluntly THE feat smite is EXTREMELY WEAK!!!! due to how game progresses the values of hitpoints on enemies. smite that returns 1 per 2 min, and does small damage to enemies is a joke, it needs a boost for any paladin offensive or defensive.

    overall when TRYING to recreate my paladin from live on new enchancement system i ran out of points after getting everything needed to have defence abilities at at least similar lvl to what is on live, and then i realized that i have NO dps enchancements that i have on live, i have 20% less heal amp, and i CANT do anything about it in any way without sacrificing a LOT from defender tree, so i can either build a wall, or a gimpy tank taht will have gimpy dps, or i can just abandon being tank, grab twohanded sword and go fully knight of challice, or tr and change class, and thats just BAD.

    enough rant for now, some ideas-----------------

    first of all those 6, 3 tiered enchancements for upgradeing the sacred defence stance, MERGE them, make them into 3 enchancements with 2 points cost, first could upgrade the prr and ac, and give small % of extra hp, second give constitution and again bit % hp, 3rd str and % of hp, all in all would be the same just bit cheaper and easier to manage to customize the character

    instead of second 3 enchancements for the stance there could be 3 HEAL AMP enchancements, each giveing 10% heal amp and 5/good dr, after getting all 3 character would have 15/good dr, it would help with survivability too but also would make those enchancements feel realy usefull,

    now smites, the idea of defencing smiting gave me idea, what if knigt of challic e would get offensive smites, that do things (no idea atm, didint give knight much thought) that help them in gaining more offensive against targets, while defender would get defensive smites, again 3 enchancements with 3 tiers each, for both prestiges they give same values of to crit multiplier and range but diffrent extra effects, for example first tier could give healing curse similar to what light monks get under their light attack, it would be diffrent though, would give for example 1d6 healing at tier 1 with 3d6 at tier 3, and 5 temporary hp per tier, lasts 6 or 12 seconds, second enchancement could give again upgrade to smite crit values and additional smite but also have 50% chance to make target vulnerable to physical damage for 6 seconds, with values based on tier, working only when target it attacking the paladin, works for whole party, 3rd enchancement could add some extra light damage to smite, with a vorpal attack that calls in a lightning effect similar to the one from cloudbreaker, that vorpal effect would deal 5d20 light, sonic and electric damage, same effect could be on the smites for knight of chalice for top tier of it, since vorpal smites are very rare it would be very nice rewarding to see it, also that 3rd last enchancement would give 1d3 smite charges back on any smite, with rolling 1 being none.

    one more idea for smites, but maybe it would be better for destiny, smites becomeing cleave when paladin has cleave feat

    last thing, PLEASE bring back the weapons of good to defender tree too, either that OR make holy weapon spell to work like artificer weapon buffing spells, and work on any weapon held by paladin, self use only.


    Please turbine dont destroy my favorite class and gameplay style.... bring more fun into that class and im sure players will reward you with major happyness.
    Last edited by bloodnose13; 07-15-2013 at 10:24 AM. Reason: bonus brain activity
    "If you're not having fun, you're doing something wrong."
    — Groucho Marx

  20. #60
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodnose13 View Post
    the stance given by all tiers of defender of syberys on live costs 4+2+2 ap for all tiers, and gives considerable defence to paladin(...)
    In fact, even in the old system Defender of Syberis had a lot of prerequisite enhancements, as well as level requirements. It's not true that the stance costs only 8 AP.

Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload