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  1. #81
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    For the Defender Capstone, to make it worthwhile, it would need something nearly OP, like constant +100% Threat Generation or perhaps a large (+12 or greater) Sacred Bonus to AC when using a s&b.

  2. #82
    Community Member psymun's Avatar
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    I guess I'm just very unhappy with the direction that turbine has taken the Paladin. Average DPS is now going to be sub-par DPS. Their "excuse" I guess is the hate generation, but hate generation is only half the battle.

    Turbine must know that the number of players playing DDO is declining rapidly over the past few months.

    It disappoints me that the Devs read these threads and can't even comment and say "Yes, this nerf is permanent, deal with it." or "We see your concerns and we will take it into consideration" SOMETHING.

    I know I'm only one person, but I no I am not alone. Not that it affects any of you, but I want to add to the growing number of people that have announced:

    Today, I have officially, and indefinitely ended my DDO subscription due to being lied to, (Telling us there would be no nerfs with the new enhancements), and a general decline of the quality of the game.
    Dynacel (12 Pal/6 Rgr/2 Mnk), Eminence (18 Evoker FvS/2 Mnk), Janaya (12 Mnk, 6 Rgr, 2 Ftr Arcane Archer), Nymari (18/2 Druid Monk), Soulfusion (18/2 Artificer Monk)

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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by psymun View Post

    Today, I have officially, and indefinitely ended my DDO subscription due to being lied to, (Telling us there would be no nerfs with the new enhancements), and a general decline of the quality of the game.
    I feel you, I Am gain regretting prepurchesing the xpac and getting a ton of &hit still undone and they took more money to change things we didn't want. Turbine stop breaking thing faster then you fix them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    we'd rather spend that development time on things most players like.

  4. #84
    2015 DDO Players Council B0ltdrag0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealKorike View Post
    For the Defender Capstone, to make it worthwhile, it would need something nearly OP, like constant +100% Threat Generation or perhaps a large (+12 or greater) Sacred Bonus to AC when using a s&b.
    It could be +4 to all stats skills and saves and still not be worth it.
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  5. #85
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    I dunno. The release notes for today are a sizeable improvement to what was there before, and brings it much more in line with what it used to be (or is, depending on perspective) on live. I can totally see ways to work this now with these modifications.

  6. #86
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrag View Post
    I dunno. The release notes for today are a sizeable improvement to what was there before, and brings it much more in line with what it used to be (or is, depending on perspective) on live. I can totally see ways to work this now with these modifications.
    Agreed! It seems to be that what's on Lamm is much better, overall, than what is on Live. I can't quite remake my live build, but there are some improvements. Certainly, there is nothing on Lamm that makes me want to cry like a baby and quit playing like some people say they are....

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrag View Post
    I dunno. The release notes for today are a sizeable improvement to what was there before, and brings it much more in line with what it used to be (or is, depending on perspective) on live. I can totally see ways to work this now with these modifications.
    There's actually a reason to consider taking a tier 5 enhancement in the tree now. Still no reason to take the +6 Strength since it doesn't stack with divine might. Also still no reason to take the "capstone". Means I have to take a lot more lower level junk to get the KoTC capstone if I want the extra PRR from defender tier 5.

    If I go this route I lose a bit of AC, some lay on hands and about 4 damage per swing (from divine might changes). I gain a bit of PRR and some extra damage versus either undead or evil outsiders.

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    There's actually a reason to consider taking a tier 5 enhancement in the tree now. Still no reason to take the +6 Strength since it doesn't stack with divine might.
    They are intended to stack. It may not have made it in for this Lamannia patch, but:
    - Strong Defense is a Sacred bonus (tooltip may say Competence at the moment, but it's not)
    - Divine Might is being changed to an Insight bonus (but may still be Sacred on Lamannia currently).

  9. #89
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    The problem I have with paladins as a class is all of the clickie management. (Well, that and the fact that only one of the buffing spells scale with class/caster level, but that's another topic). I wish pallies had more constant/passive damage options that didn't need to be clicked every few seconds/minutes, depending on the ability.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    They are intended to stack. It may not have made it in for this Lamannia patch, but:
    - Strong Defense is a Sacred bonus (tooltip may say Competence at the moment, but it's not)
    - Divine Might is being changed to an Insight bonus (but may still be Sacred on Lamannia currently).
    That change makes me feel quite a bit better. But if you make divine might an insight bonus won't it stop stacking with +2/3 Insightful Strength items?

    Also any plans to buff/change the capstone it really needs some damage or at least DR breaking added to make it interesting.

  11. #91
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    That change makes me feel quite a bit better. But if you make divine might an insight bonus won't it stop stacking with +2/3 Insightful Strength items?

    Also any plans to buff/change the capstone it really needs some damage or at least DR breaking added to make it interesting.
    Well, you can only get up to +3 insightful, and only then at level 20+, iirc. It's a lot better than not having it stack with the +6 from SD stance.

    And now that I think about it, since Divine Might is a bonus to strength, that means it increases the DCs of tactical feats. *cackles madly at the thought of all of the melee multi-classing possibilities*

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    Well, you can only get up to +3 insightful, and only then at level 20+, iirc. It's a lot better than not having it stack with the +6 from SD stance.

    And now that I think about it, since Divine Might is a bonus to strength, that means it increases the DCs of tactical feats. *cackles madly at the thought of all of the melee multi-classing possibilities*
    I don't know if going from a loss of 6 to a loss of 3 is a lot better (It is a bit better though) we also don't know for sure yet that we won't get higher bonuses on future items.

  13. #93

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    My exaulted smites are now critting for half as much on Lammania(~400-450) as they do on live (~800-900) per hand... I didn't have time to figure out if it was a multiplier or base damage difference yet.

    Also Holy retribution needs to increase the maximum health it can destroy (1000/2000/3000) as a top tier ability it needs to scale up to epic content. having a save attached to it and MAYBE being able to do 1000 damage when a 2 hander paladin exaulted smite crits for over 1000 makes it pretty lackluster for a 3 point ability
    Formerly Rathic of harvestgain

  14. #94
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    After looking at it again if I keep the KoTC capstone I don't have enough AP to take 2 tier 5's in defender to max. So I'll have to choose between the PRR or the last stance upgrade (str, con or HP depending on previous choices)

    Here is my quick idea for a change to make the defender capstone possibly worth taking. Make Glorious stand permanent while in stance and make it the capstone. Have this other ability be the core ability before that and put it on something like a 10 minute timer with x uses per rest. (I'd still prefer the capstone helped with damage/DR but if you really want a defensive focused on here you go)

    EDIT: Here's another idea based on having capstones that are at least as good as evasion.

    Shield Wall: While using a large or tower shield a successful fortitude save allows you duck behind to take half damage from spells.
    Last edited by Krelar; 07-26-2013 at 05:39 PM.

  15. #95
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    Is it just me or does it seem like Exalted Smites are hitting for half of what it does on the live servers and relatively the same damage as a regular Smite Evil. Any one else seeing this issue. I have used both the Smite Evil(Feat) and Exalted Smite(Enh) before anyone asks.
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  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathic View Post
    My exaulted smites are now critting for half as much on Lammania(~400-450) as they do on live (~800-900) per hand... I didn't have time to figure out if it was a multiplier or base damage difference yet.
    I have tested this as well.. It really seems like the +2 Damage Multiplier isn't taking effect from the Exalted Smite Enhancement.
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  17. #97
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    changeing ap costs on stance upgrades is a step in right direction but i think that both paladin enchacnemetn trees are built with wrong idea in mind, after looking at other classes and their presitges they get some of old, but also lot of new, sometimes usefull and sometimes less usefull things, where player can choose what to take, while on paladin trees 80% of a tree is required to have class core abilities as on live, word defender does not mean someone who is a wall that is only hard to kill, but someone who defends others. so im my opinion there is a need for change in way of thinking, i think that there should be done lot of merging in defender tree, for example all of enchancements for stance merged from 6/3 tiered enchancements to 3+1 capstone path (not capstone for prestige but for stance) first of it should be in line 2 or 3, so its not a bottom line enchancement, as noone will have access to stance at low lvl anyway.
    that would make space for new enchancements, for example heal amp similar to the one on kotc side but that gives also 3.6.10/- or 5,10,15/- dr for example, heal amp with a twist, dual meaning enchanceemnts.
    defender could have own smite path, if divine righteousness would be converted into a smite, it could be called righteous smite, a smite that on use gives extra hate buff, but also could do some other usefull thngs to enemies, another thing that defender tree SHOULD give is a double strike boost with shield equipped and higher shield bash rate and daamge bonus, shield bash could have a dice roll attached on which enemy would be tripped, slowed or unbalanced, ANOTHER thing that could be done with defender stance since its already requires a shield equipped, ability to move at walk speed WHILE BLOCKING, and ability to make main weapon attacks WHILE BLOCKING, at reduced speed, and maybe just first 2,3 attack animations of the attack chain (would look weird to do that all around swipe while blocking heh). it would create situaltion where all those ON BLOCK effects would be actualy worth a lot more in any bigger fights and not only while tanking. last thing is the prestige capstone while the extended bleed out seems usefull at occasions, i think the 2 layon 250 heal on below 0 should be replaced with pnp oposite version of divine might, divine shield, it adds charisma modifier to ac in pnp, so maybe in ddo it could do either just that, OR add cha mod on top of prrs %dr value for temporary defence boost. in my opinion its better NOT to go below 0 than to rely on some effect to MAYBE save us when it happens. ALSO there could be new things in that tree like temporary aura bonuses, useing turns, all of them either boosting defence of those in aura OR offensive capabilities Or debuffing enemies who enter paladins aura, im pretty sure there is many ways this idea could be implemented to make defender paladin not only a tank but a valuable party booster, OR enemy debuffer.
    still missing weapons of good, so maybe it could make big return in defender too at enchancements somewhere in top tiers with all held weapons are good and extra damage to evil enemies?

    basic idea of this is to make both KOTC and defender to be similar, in sense of both being paladins who use same skills and powers, BUT each in unique to him way. current enchancements are still just same things as on live just spread all over the tree.

    since many other class prestiges give now proficiencies, please give tower shield proficiency in defender tree.

    btw, sacred stance is supposed to be based off shield, but removeing main hand disables all stance bonuses even when shield is still in hand, even swapping weapon removes whole hp bonus granted by stance, creating a need to heal 200+ hp every time weapon is swapped. im sure its a bug.............
    Last edited by bloodnose13; 07-28-2013 at 06:40 AM.
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  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    They are intended to stack. It may not have made it in for this Lamannia patch, but:
    - Strong Defense is a Sacred bonus (tooltip may say Competence at the moment, but it's not)
    - Divine Might is being changed to an Insight bonus (but may still be Sacred on Lamannia currently).
    Divine might should stay a Sacred bonus or be untyped. You guys are creating to many un stacking issues with changes like this.
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  19. #99
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    Default A Few Issues

    I liked the new enhancements before, and since the changes gave me nine more APs to spend, I like them even more now.

    A few issues:

    1. As noted above, exalted smite is not giving full damage. At least we're getting all of them now, but still wish they were "endless."

    2. The enhancement that gives +1 AC and +1 armor max dex bonus per level - the AC is stacking properly, but the armor dex bonus stops at 1.

    3. Extra LOH gives a total of 10 instead of 7 - hope it's WAI, and don't change it even if it's not (lol).

    I know lots of people are knocking the SD capstone - I was one of them until I got caught in two huge lagfights running two of the Wheloon quests for favor on HE. No deaths!

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    Divine might should stay a Sacred bonus or be untyped. You guys are creating to many un stacking issues with changes like this.
    Or at least turn Divine Might into an Untype damage for Pure Paladins so they get an extra benefit since its one of the low hanging fruits. The extra boost for paladins would help with the weak/moderate melee damage when attacking something other than evil mobs and the chosen evil outsider or undead mob.

    The Devs need to throw pure paladins some sort of bone. This would be one way. And allow KOTC to take advantage of both Evil Outsiders and Undead damage would be another way. Especially since Clerics have the Divine Disciple that's capstone grants all the Core Abilities in that tree AND the Clerics will be getting a melee tree in Update 20 that will put them on par melee-wise with Paladins.

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