That's the real rub and disappointment.
That's the real rub and disappointment.
Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane
Sorcerers can go drow as an alternative and gain +3 enchantment DC's over live. The real issue there is that they are still stuck with savant in one form or another and that was something I would consider a bad implementation. That does stifle variety when the trees are all different flavors of the same thing.
Some classes, like rogues and rangers and monks, look like there will be a variety of possibilities. Other classes, like sorcerers in particular, look like multiple flavors of the same basic idea. I'd take nightmare spinner as an alternative; shaken aura and deadly nightmares (WILL DC instant death effect; DC=10+classlvl+CHAmod) seem like useful abilities. I'd take that for the 3rd bard tree too for that matter.
The new system would promote a lot more variety as more trees become available if there are goodies in each tree. I'd like to see 5 trees for every class where we still have a 3 class tree limit. That makes for hard thinking and choices but given how long 2 trees seems to be taking I can't see something like that ever happening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zonbLF-NMZgOriginally Posted by Turbine
My air-savant sorc, with evoc, greater evoc, +2 evoc item, +1 epic cha, +1 epic cha, simply cannot hit the DCs in EE (and has some troubles in EH w/all the evasion mobs) and has miserable saves such that I put her into Shiradi and am contemplating an LR to splash in 2 levels of pali. The fighter capstone doesn't even register as working on my character sheet and it doesn't seem to stack w/haste, so what's the point? (unless I am wrong - and would like to be corrected!). The cleric is only a back-up so I have no clue whether it's worthwhile or not, but I haven't noticed anything special from lvl 19 to 20 on her.
I'm not sure Capstones themselves need to be powerful, it's a mistake to consistantly buff things as it causes power creep.
The bigger issue is splashing 2 levels for overpowered benefits.
Monk: 2 levels buys you 2 feats, unarmed attack ability, evasion and +3 to all saves, access to +1 wis
Paladin: Cha to saves (A Possible +15/20 for some), Lay on Hands, access to +1 cha
Fighter: Tower Shields, 2 feats, access to +1 str
Rogue: Evasion, Trap Skills, UMD, Sneak damage 1d6+3
Ranger: Bow Strength, 2wf,rapid shot, sprint boost.
What needs to happen is these kinds of splashes need to be reduced in power so that people who multiclass are taking more than 1 or 2 levels.
DDO is based upon DnD but not strictly the same, there is nothing against a little diversion and doing the following (as an example):
1. Primary Class Abilities: Divine Grace/Evasion are relabelled as Primary Class Abilities. When you reach level 8, your highest (or 1st) class is labelled your primary class. This would prevent a lot of splashing.
2. Create limits on these abilities - such as monk evasion working when centered only, Divine Grace being capped at 4/8/12/infinite at levels 2/8/14/20 thereafter. This would help to limit the power of the splashes to an extent that capstones dont need to become godly to compensate.
Noone wants their power to be diminished, and I know many people will complain that this would reduce diversity... what they dont realise is once diversity is reduced, skill becomes a more important factor.
Can I finally be a level 20 Paladin without feeling gimped please, devs?
Those +2 stat capstones? Just add that automatically to each class, maybe, and with something else attached that is generally useful to characters of that class. Then you can use the PrE capstones to do something PrE-centric without leaving someone in a different PrE feeling like they are missing out on am important core-class feature.
For example, Weapons of Good (the paladin capstone) is rather important to ALL paladins, not just KotC, so that could get added to the list of class feat(ure)s the paladin gets at level 20 automatically, while then including capstones tied more specifically to each of the KotC and Defender PrEs in their respective trees. Ditto for granting rogues additional Sneak Attack damage as their capstone, or monks passive Ki generation and Concentration.
Anyone else feel it's too hard to get capstones in the new enhancements even if you are pure? Requiring 40 AP spent, as well as all the other core abilities is a hefty restriction for a lot of builds. That just makes it easier to skip the capstone. On live all you need to do is pony up 2 AP on a pure build and you're set, not in the new pass.
So it would reduce a lot of classes to just their lv20 benefits. Basically, for casters, there are spell slots, SP and caster levels. Fighters, wizards, and artis get a bonus feat. Monk gets a few things, more AC, more base damage, DR, the charisma dance ability that most builds can't use effectively. Barbarian gets a point of DR, improved uncanny dodge and better raging. Favored soul gets DR 10. Outside of that...nothing, really.
Level 19 is even worse. Rogue gets a feat and sneak attack die at 19, and other than caster abilities that's about it.
So it really would be nice to have the capstones as accessible as they are on live when you do go pure, I don't care if you're limited to one again like on live. Though if ALL the capstones are weak, maybe we could just toss that restriction out and call it a day (though there are some strong capstones...bard's heal+wail, for example)
fighter capstone is very good for my build atleast since i use duel weapons and will switch to pinion when i need to range. Since the capstone benefits both melee and ranged its perfect for me.
Multiclassing and related build experimentation is what makes this game unique compared to most other MMOs who offer nowhere near this much build freedom. It would be a serious mistake on the devs part to limit splashing anymore than they already have (by having a 3 class limit). Making capstones better is fine. However, nerfing splashes is bad. If anything, I would argue they should make other classes MORE multiclass-worthy. I would recommend looking looking at various house rules fixes for 3E's broken arcane/divine multiclassing to allow for more viable fighter/mages and the like (or at the very least feats like practiced spellcaster or actual PRCs like arcane trickster/etc).
1. Capstone should be auto granted and not 40 point in ench tree.
2. Capstone should be a buff not a debuff like +10% sp cost on sorcerer capstone! Remove it!
What I'm thinking...add an extra feat, free of choice, that would be interesting and not overpowered.
Last edited by Vanhooger; 04-17-2014 at 12:03 PM.
On that note I wouldn't mind if every class in your splash had to have evasion as a class feat in order to keep it. I'm sure many disagree but IDK. Tired off people splashing for evasion to make up for poor skills.
Chances are I posted this reply to your thread and won't be checking back. If you have a comment that you think I must see then a PM would be in order.
It's amazing that this thread is almost a year old and still nothing has been done about it other than a simple dev post that explains how little they know about playing the game. I've been fighting for better capstones since U19 when this multiclass mess started. Everything I need to say has already been said in this thread. A capstone needs to be worth the effort of going pure, but some classes are blatantly more powerful than others (looking at you, 2-6 levels of Monk) and this multiclass issue will never, ever be changed until the low-hanging fruit and front-loaded classes (looking at you, 2 levels of paladin) are looked at with a really big magnifying glass. This game lacks a very serious attention to balance.
Capstones are simply not good enough, hands down. Period. End of discussion.
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