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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by oweieie View Post
    Bug: Can't access I-IV enhancement spells on my character sheet window in the enhancement panel under active enhancements, only spell V (Cyclonic Blast) after having bought them all in the Archmage tree. All 5 spells should be showing up, not just the top one.
    Same for me, so seems to be a general bug.

    And a few general first impressions:

    Also looks like I have to invest in necromancer tree to get +3 to int (as is possible from live currently) from class prestige enhancements, as I'm only seeing a total of +2 from the archmage tree. Unless I'm missing something completely. Though obviously possible to get +4 but that means a fairly heavy investment in the necro tree. Plus there's next to nothing of use to an AM in the Necro tree, especially as the efficient XXXX enhancement in one tree locks you out of selecting that enhancement in the other tree so they don't stack.

    And like everyone else not happy about linking wand & scroll mastery to wand heightening. Even if you invest in wizard past lives wands like charm etc are of very limited use - so either improve the benefit or remove the linking of the two enhancements. And improve doesn't necessarily have to mean upping the DC benefit, other things like those available to artificer spring to mind, like percentage change not to use a charge or maybe increase the caster level by 1 - that would have the same benefit as it currently has and also provide a small benefit to both damage wands/clickies and buff clickies.

    Also I generally don't use either enlarge or quickening, but to get the enhancements to reduce heightening cost I need to take one and the associated enhancements (currently doesn't seem to insist on you having the related feat to take the enhancement, but i'm assuming that's a bug). Or if you want to be a pure DC caster, then you're being forced to take feats and enhancements you'd have to spend a lot of points on unnecessary enhancements to reduce cost of heightening. Not sure I see the need to link the various efficient metamagic enhancements at all - the points spent requirement should be sufficient.

    Have to specialise in damage type in terms of critical chance - which kind of goes against the versatility of a wizard. No, ignore me, you can actually select different types in the tree!

    Also agree the +2 for spellpoints for Energy of the Scholar is too much - give a wizard can have 2000 or so spellpoints at level 20, an extra 90 only amounts to less than 5% increase, and in terms of epic levels 90 spellpoints is a drop in the ocean. Either drop to 1 AP or if they could do it as a fixed amount with a portion linked to level I think it would be worth the 2AP, say for each rank taken 20 spellpoints plus 2 per level. That wouldn't overpower it at lower levels, but still provide a useful amount at higher levels.

    And just a general comment - please drop the reflex save on arcane bolt, I can understand it for the arcane blast, but as its single target and is unaffected by metamagics its fairly useless at later levels due to the reflex saves mobs have and the number of mobs that have evasion, well its fairly useless on epic in any shape except finishing off something with a sliver of health so if you're feeling generous either up base damage or let metamagics effect it and blast. Its also not as if its particularly useful for triggering Shiradi effects as its single target and one bolt, not like magic missile or similar.

    And I won't go into the whole issue with DC casting in general in terms of its ending up like the old AC system between the prestiges enhancements and the epic destinies - you invest totally in the DC of a particular school and every other school is fairly useless, which again goes again what I consider to be the versatility of a wizard. PnP you generally only had a few points of DC between spell classes you focused on and those you didn't. Anyways, no derailing
    Last edited by CeltEireson; 04-18-2013 at 04:29 PM.

  2. #22
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Well here's my opinion on the Palemaster and relevant changes to it (testing with my Dwarven Wiz12/Fighter6/Rogue2)

    Pros

    - I love the attention that the skeletal pet is getting have yet to do full blown testing but it definitely works better

    - Removal of feat requirements is a relief

    - The ability to raise dead allies as undead is very flavourful

    - The left wraith at lvl 12 so the entire idea of many wiz12/x/x builds is not obliterated

    - improved form tier 5 ability is cool

    - negative energy conduit it does one thing and it does it well..no change needed

    - bone armor flavourful and effective again no change needed

    - option to choose +con instead of +int if you want


    Cons

    - The addition of Spellcraft and requiring the use of heal to increase my neg energy spell power is both ridiculous (cross-class really) and makes it impossible for me to fit the skills I used to have on live and need to function unless I tank my healing (heal = neg energy) and spell damage (spellcraft)....spellcraft should be rolled into concentration and I'd like to see an enhancement in the PM list to use spellcraft (or concen) to increase neg energy spell power..or make it one of the core abilities to replace the useless zombie and vamp forms.

    - forced to take zombie/vampire to reach wraith...just a waste of AP

    - The raise dead awesomeness is diminished by forcing them to go zombie form and the permanent DoT procs way too fast to be useful...I'd say make it wraith and remove the DoT

    - The 3 tree limit forces me to choose between the weapon boosts (including haste which is apparently being returned) from Kensai, The Trapsmithing boosts from mechanic or various spellcasting boosts from archmage such as wand/scroll mastery, efficient metamagics, elemental crits and extra SP not to mention w/e ends up in Wild Mage or Purple Dragon Knight

    - this is the same as live but still a complaint death aura cannot be maximized or empowered

    - cloak of night no real issue with the power but I think it's misnamed cloak of night implies it would make darkness more powerful and light weaker but it seems to weaken repair,positive negative and light.

    - SLAs can't be meta'd...makes them nigh useless (doesn't effect my guy but I'm sure an light splash or single-class wizard is annoyed by this)

    - Dark furor ability goes 5% fort bypass -> 10% -> 5%...im assuming that last one should be 15% its very hard to test if its just a display issue. bug has been reported

    - 2 Actions points for deathless vigor, spell crit and skeletal knight is a bit overkill I'd say either 1 for all or 2,1,1, etc.

    - summoning skeletal knight either doesnt work or crashes the game

    - zombie and vamp form still suck

    Suggestion

    Change the core abilities to something like this

    Core 1: Concentration now increase neg energy spell power instead of heal and increase Neg Energy by 0.75 and universal spell power by 0.75
    Core 2: Selector: Zombie Form OR ???
    Core 3: Selector: Vampire Form OR ???
    Core 4: Wraith Form
    Core 5: Lich Form
    Core 6: PM Capstone

    This allows a little flexibility with the less used forms the alternative doesn't need to be really powerful just better than what amounts to nothing for most people. Wraith & Lich are popular enough that they don't need alternatives
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 04-18-2013 at 04:09 PM.
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  3. #23
    The Front Side Gratch's Avatar
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    Haven't tested too much, but I could live with these Wiz trees as they are currently looking (SOOOO MUCH BETTER THAN CLERIC/FVS).

    Notes:

    -AM lost the ability to have two sets of SLA groups which breaks my current live AM who is double specialist necro (+2 DC's) and single specialist conjuration (+1 DC) but SLA wise only took Web (and knock?). Though I could go full conjurer... but not sure that's wise for one dc spell. Plus SLA's of waves/enervation could be fun now that they are SpellPoint free and required to get the AM core capstone.

    -Also can't view SLA tiers 1-4. only 5 (waves of fatigue) in the character Enhancements tab (bug filed).

    -Nice to be able to take a necro spec warforged somewhat into both trees w/o needing to becoming a formed negative healer when I have the now more powerful reconstruct repair-pimped healing. And tons of int to respec into repair skill for even more instant ~600 hp's back. Warforged Arcanez is uberz now. Plus I picked up the necrobolt and +4 int total.

    -Lastly will need to do more tests to figure out spell power/damage end game and if DC's (with and SLA enervate) are high enough to win at EE endgame w/o just shoving to Shiradi no-dc-crowd-control-random-fx. Would like to hear what Varg/Eladrin have to say on current end-game DC casting which is sort of WIN at EpicHard and notWorthwhile at EpicElite (GHold and HighRoad mob CR level over-correction issues). Almost like we're at the same state as to-hit's previous d20 limitation.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by oweieie View Post
    I assume the eventual addition of wild mage will add the ability to spec into another element/force. Otherwise... ugh.
    If a prestige is not in the alpha I wouldn't hold my breath. We waited 3.5 years for this.
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  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    - The 3 tree limit forces me to choose between the weapon boosts (including haste which is apparently being returned) from Kensai, The Trapsmithing boosts from mechanic or various spellcasting boosts from archmage such as wand/scroll mastery, efficient metamagics, elemental crits and extra SP not to mention w/e ends up in Wild Mage or Purple Dragon Knight
    Filling out all those items in PM and AM costs 91 AP including the stat bonuses and going up to wraithform, with improved shrouding and necromantic focus.

    That's with 0 AP spent in your dwarf tree. Where are the other AP coming from you want to spend in those other trees or what were you giving up in order to have enough AP for those items?

    Wand and scroll requires wand mastery, so 3 ranks in each, 3 ranks in energy of, 3 ranks in 2 meta's for efficient meta magic, 4 ranks in elemental crit chance, 4 ranks in negative crit chance, 3 ranks in deathless vigor, 3 in conduit and 3 in bone armor, 4 in stat bonuses, up to wraith shroud, and improved shrouding is 79 AP spent in 2 trees.

    My advice is forget the rogue tree completely, give up something from AM and PM so you have some points for kensei and dwarf, you have as close as you are going to get to your old build, and you still have no more AP to spend in more trees.

    When the other trees come out you will still have no points to spend in them even if you did have more trees.

    I am curious, though, how you would spend your AP and on what if you did have all those trees.
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  6. #26
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Well to start I don't take any of the SLAs or the necro DC bump since my arcane knight could care less about dcs or the spells that require them second I currently take all the enhancements I mentioned on live right now if its true that I cant fit them on lama with the new build than It just helps prove my point that I lose something in the change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  7. #27

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    I'm guessing this has been said and the bug reporting tool wasn't working for me in game, so...

    1) Pale master summon crashes the game
    2) Archmage SLA's - I took up to chain missiles, but magic missile and gust of wind were not in my active enhancements list to use.
    3) Pale master necrotic bolt and blast have a 6 second cooldown, I'm pretty sure it used to be 3 seconds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BananaHat View Post
    3) Pale master necrotic bolt and blast have a 6 second cooldown, I'm pretty sure it used to be 3 seconds.
    Do metas work on them now? If not, no one will ever take them.

    Also 5 minutes on the raise that makes them immune to regular healing is such a joke. It is literally worse than a raise scroll I can use every 3 seconds.

  9. #29

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    Really wanted to try out the skeletal knight...but it crashes the client...lol. Bug reported...

  10. #30
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    Overall, my impressions are: Pale Master tree = awesome, Archmage tree = casualty of the tree interface + generally terrible.

    Pale Master

    --------------

    Core abilities:
    Universally nice, with a really appropriate capstone. I like that vampire neg levels now, and I like that you can reduce the light vulnerability and that it's level 6. Cool splashing possibilities. Wraith form lists "30% incorporeal", not "35% incorporeal" even with advanced shrouding, so that's potentially buggy. Lich form is obviously the be all and end all of casting though, with +4 int potential.

    Tier 1:

    Necrotic Touch: sure, meh.
    Deathless Vigor: Nice!
    Spell Crit: Fine. I find it difficult to conceptualize the damage bonus from crit lines, but I'm sure someone will do it on paper sometime. Given all crits are double damage I'm pretty sure that this line is good in a 'comparable or slightly better than live' sense.
    Skeletal Knight: summons merg. A CR25 Skeletal Knight is still going to be eaten alive in EE, which is fine. I am sort of okay with 'heroic levelling' enhancement lines for while you get to cap.
    Negative Energy Conduit: Decent; 10% HAMP is good-ish, and cheap. I would prefer this to give more amp (15-20%) for 2 AP instead of 1 per rank.

    Tier 2:

    Efficient Metamagic: Sure, whatever. Well coded in that you can't double up on Archmage enhancements of the same type.
    Corpsecrafter: Appropriate; this is part of what bugged me about arcanotechnician. Of course stat bonuses should be available early on not in tier 5!
    Bone Armor: Nice. PRR is good, and I'm sure some motivated individual will make a viable undead tank.

    Tier 3:

    Necrotic Bolt: sure, meh. I'm also in the camp that would like to see metamagics (even just Enlarge and Quicken, not the spell power boosters) for the weak bolt/blast SLAs from both Archmage and PM.
    Cloak of Night: I don't actually like this one, due to the lower Negative Energy healing, but others seem to. It still seems a little bonkers to me to stay undead in a quest with enemy divines, but I don't know. Nice to have the option I suppose.
    Eternal Servitude: Cool. Again, this does highlight how badly poochy in the Arcanotechnician tree is treated though.
    +Int or +Con: Interesting to give Con! I'm on board.

    Tier 4:

    Dark Furor: Yeah, rank 3 has a typo, beyond that, sure. The doublestrike does seem strong, but then I think about how much a summon hits for and I think, "Oh. Maybe it should be higher"

    Tier 5:
    Necrotic Blast: sure, meh.
    Animate Ally: Hahaha I like that a lot of people enjoy it. I also think it's a fun flavour thing. No way on earth I'd take it though.
    Necro Focus: I think this is appropriate, and that Pale Masters needed a DC boost. Having said that, this tier, relative to Archmage tier 5, is ludicrously good. You gain the same DC boost in every single school save necro for being a tier 5 PM lich with Improved Shrouding, and you gain +1 in necro over anything you could do in AM.
    Improved Shrouding: Awesome. Nice work, really makes me want to go tier 5 PM.

    Overall, great tree, well done. So much stronger than Archmage that it pains me though. The solution is definitely to bolster Archmage, not nerf PM, but the comparison can't be avoided.

    -------

    Archmage

    Core Abilities:
    I think having the primary SLA here is fine. On live you also choose a primary school. No issue. I can even cop needing to complete the SLA line (since it's so much cheaper in both AP and Spell Point reduction) to access the capstone.

    Having said that, many of the existing Archmage SLAs are terrible. Just terrible.

    While there's not an obvious solution for replacements due to the fact that school and level restrictions exist, adding additional Max Spell Points (like tier 3 = 25, tier 4 = 50, tier 5 = 100) for the later tiers would mean:
    Conjurers have a more difficult decision than stopping at Web, ditto Evokers for stopping at Chain Missiles, ditto Necromancers for not touching the SLAs, and ditto Illusionists for not stopping at PK.

    Capstone is fine.

    I actually can't / won't break down this tree tier by tier since I think it needs a more macro change.

    Chat re: why the tree is for splashing, maybe to tier 4, now

    Okay, on live there were a few reasons to go archmage.

    -One was higher DCs. That's gone. Utterly. T5 Pale Master in Lich Form with Improved Shrouding with capstone gives me the same DC boost to my primary school, whatever it is, as Archmage. Save for Necromancy where it is outright higher. Pale Master also gives strong self-healing, tipping it to be an outright better PRE for the DC caster regardless of their school of choice.

    -There was also versatility/endurance; having a bunch of cheap SLAs gave you adventure longevity and covered a lot of ground. In 'Detour' it was fun to easily go the distance where similarly skilled and equipped Pale Masters would struggle. The trick was to have the Web SLA, Hypnotism SLA, and whatever primary school you liked, be it PK from Illusion, Necro DC from Necromancy or Shiradi missile-fest from Evocation.

    That's gone.

    Now, the only reasons to use the tree are:
    -Splash for Web. Takes about 7 AP.
    -Splash more deeply for DC, picking up the 2 Int enhancements and the the primary focus enhancement. Takes about 22 AP and gives you 2 DC.

    You can't even get both Web and pick up a bonus DC point in something useful like Enchant or Necro.

    My Illusion Archmage is best off taking tier 5 in the Pale Master tree, since the Illusion DC is equivalent (Lich form = +4 Int with tier 5), but more Pale Master tree investment and capstone offers better self-healing, the good AoE SLA (not the useless Archmage version), and the same DC boost. I also HAD to take at least lich form from Pale Master for the stacking +2 int, so I have to significantly invest enough such that not going T5 is nutty anyway.

    Bonkers.

    DC casters can only splash this tree up to tier 4 now due to the tier 5 / capstone disparity with Pale Master. Lich form's +2 DC is just unbeatable given the inherent self-healing that comes with it too.



    How to fix the SLAs:

    1) Have multiple SLA lines.
    "We can't , it's a tree." True story. <-- EDIT: "True story" is just about the tree, not about multiple lines being impossible. Incidentally, I actually do like the tree structure. But I think it's poorly used for Archmage with the single SLA line along the bottom.

    Have a 'secondary' SLA line. Like on live.

    Just a single line going up through the tiers (non-core tiers; as in it progresses vertically up through the tree), with a pre-req of the previous tier's SLA to get the next one.
    Start on tier 2 with the level 1 SLA, and go all the way up to tier 5 with the level 4 SLA. Or even start on tier 3 with the level 1 SLA, and go all the way up to tier 5 with the level 3 SLA.

    Have a 'tertiary' SLA ability. In tier 3 or 4 (or 5 if Archmages truly must be thrown to the wolves... more...), allow for a single third SLA to be taken, just of level 1, and it can't be from your primary or secondary line.

    I have never seen an archmage build that gained use from having more than 3 SLA schools.

    SLA issue solved.



    The DC Issue

    -The problem here is that PM is stronger for every single school.
    -The second problem is that DC casters are going to invest in both trees anyway, and you don't want even greater DC bloat than what exists now.

    Answer: Tier 5. If Tier 5 is going to be 'everybody gets one', like your friendly neighborhood Spiderman, then put the DC boost there.
    And no I don't mean +1 DC to your primary school and +1 DC to your secondary school, where Pale Master gets +2 DC to Necro and +1 DC to everything else.

    Make it +3 DC more to your primary school, and +2 DC to your secondary school. That is a real decision, and even then, I think I'd still lean toward making my Illusion Archmage a tier 5 Pale Master.



    Those are the big changes I think could creak the tree back to life. I'll do a bit more minor chat, but without:
    - adding 'multiple SLA lines' and
    - giving a bigger DC boost than tier 5 Pale Master does for non-necromancy,
    the tree's for splashing at best. (I'm not even convinced it's worth splashing. I'd probably go to rogue trees or Artificer for Int if I'm honest, and just eat the 1 DC loss from not getting the tier 4 primary focus.).


    Other stuff
    -Wands. DC wand casting isn't a thing. No one does it. Because you can't do it to any degree of effectiveness.
    Keep wand and scroll effectiveness in tier 2 and double the AP cost maybe? I do like that it goes up to 75% now though.

    -Spell Crit is fine.

    -Spell Pen is fine.

    -The Arcane Bolt/Blast SLAs are true nonsense on live. Reflex save, big cooldown, abysmal damage - especially Arcane Blast. In order of preference to fix them:
    1) Up the damage significantly; like double, or triple. Not exaggeration, and not remotely unreasonable or unbalancing.
    2) Give them Metamagics. At least Quicken and Enlarge, but if the raw double/triple damage suggestion is out, Maximize and/or Empower works too. Heighten would be fun too.
    3) Remove their saves. NB. Still definitively need some way to boost damage too.
    4) Remove them. They're a trap, honestly... I just. I mean try them. Make a max force spec, gear, 80 points invested in the Archmage tree, force-loving 25 Wiz. And use those SLAs even in EH, or probably EN content. Die before the monster gets to half life.

    -Enhancing every metamagic to reach heighten bothers me, but not enough to even make the list of things I'll suggest how to fix in the context of the rest of the tree.
    Last edited by Deathdefy; 04-19-2013 at 02:58 AM.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    1) Have multiple SLA lines.
    "We can't , it's a tree." True story. Incidentally, I actually do like the tree structure. But I think it's poorly used for Archmage with the single SLA line along the bottom.
    You click the icon and then a small bar comes up, like it currently does, with the choice of schools. You select the school you want and another small bar pops open with a choice of SLAs. You click the available SLA, provided you meet the criteria (Spell Focus), and voila!

    However, I won't complain if it gets shipped to Live like this. Everyone gets Turbined eventually.

    The only useful end-game SLAs are Magic / Chain Missile anyway, in my opinion that is.
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  12. #32
    Community Member Lycurgus's Avatar
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    Since MotU, my wizard has gone from being an enchantment/conjuration AM to a enchantment/evocation AM, and finally a evocation AM in Shiradi with total disregard for DCs and spell pen. I was hoping to see the new enhancement system breathe some life back into DC casting. It does that to some extent, but there are concerns.

    1) Losing the secondary school SLAs strips a lot of flavor from AM builds.

    2) Wand heightening may as well be replaced with a "summon fluffy forest creature" ability. That's about as useful and desired.

    3) More importantly, the DCs required for reliable casting in end game tend to hover right around the max attainable. The maximum attainable with the enhancement pass appears to be at least 3 higher than on live, but requires either PMs dipping heavily into the AM tree or AMs running around in undead shroud form. It makes me wonder if wizards are going to be forced into playing as undead in order to be effective DC casters. That would kinda suck.

    Just some initial thoughts.



  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Well to start I don't take any of the SLAs or the necro DC bump since my arcane knight could care less about dcs or the spells that require them second I currently take all the enhancements I mentioned on live right now if its true that I cant fit them on lama with the new build than It just helps prove my point that I lose something in the change.
    I wasn't adding the SLA's in, 2 of those stat bonuses can be taken as CON instead of INT which is a gain. The way enhancements are layered in the trees gives you, for example, wand and scroll 3 instead of wand and scroll 1, and is the equivalent of being able to add wand and scroll IV to your build instead of just wand and scroll, which is also a gain. The PRR bonus and negative energy healing amp don't even exist for you on live.

    The new system trades a lot of low tier enhancements for a lot of high tier enhancements. It's still a lot of enhancements, just in a different dimension and nice for a lot of things. Just different things in some cases. You aren't getting all of the enhancements on live that I just mentioned because the level gating on live significantly stops you. The things I listed would be like having wand and scroll IV and 13% spell crit chance.

    It's just like playing on live and the second we have access to the first tier of enhancements we can take every tier at the same AP cost. That's a huge gain all by itself, but to compare, you have access to about 90 enhancements on your build on live, 20 of those are individual skills instead of grouped skills like we have now, and most of them cannot be advanced beyond the first or 2nd rank. With your 4 trees on live you have access to about 96 enhancements, with skills grouped, and capable of bringing those to full ranks instead of partial ranks.

    If you really want your rogue bonuses then going with either AM or PM, kensei, and mechanic makes it more affordable without going so high in 2 caster trees. You'll lose some things and gain some things. You won't have any wand and scroll in mechanic, however. 3 levels is worth +75%, 2 levels is worth nada wand & scroll.

    I'm thinking if you want something closer to the same build you could be human with both caster trees and kensei tree and use the human enhancements for the skill boosts and still have both caster and the fighter tree. The human adaptability and PM CON enhancements go a long way to make up the dwarven CON. The right combination of trees gives us those options.

    The problem with that is that if you want to be a dwarf it's not a solution, and you don't normally have the option of simply changing race. It's not the same build but it offers all of the same things you listed and more.

    This is what I was trying to explain in original announcement thread. We do lose things, whether we are pure or multiclassed, because the AP costs in multiple trees restricts all styles of build equally as we advance in the trees and the impact takes effect before we have the opportunity to make any real use of 4 trees, let alone more.

    There are good things and not so good things about the new system. I can understand wanting to keep our favorite characters. Beyond that all I can do is offer advice to try and help while old things change, some things break, and new things come in. If there was any universal truth it would be "things change".
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  14. #34
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    I filled out a survey, but couldn't find the bug report button on Lammania. I think I was rage blackouting. Not really, but I genuinely couldn't find it, so this goes here:

    Every time you take the next SLA from your archmage Core Enhancements it removes your ability to see your old ones.
    e.g. you get Invis at level 1 from the core enhancements and it's fine and you can cast it.
    Then, you take blur at level 3 from the core enhancements, and it's fine and you can cast it, but invis is gone.
    Then, you take displacement at level 6 from the core enhancements, and it's fine and you can cast it, but both blur and invis are gone.

    Incidentally, they're not 'gone' gone. They're just invisible in your enhancements section. If you've already dragged them to a hotbar, they're still usable, but if you take them off a hotbar, or levelled all of your enhancements at once, you can only access your highest tier SLA.
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  15. #35
    2015 DDO Players Council Dodoroq's Avatar
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    On a second thought about the wizard trees, I have some additional objections. I think that the palemaster tree is really nice, given few changes it can be great but not overpowered. The Archmage seems to copy the current one as close as possible. However, I would make the change in the Palemaster tree.

    The reasoning behind this is simple. If I disregard the deep splashes, which can go with the current format almost right of the bat, the wizard is a class which needs at least 17 levels, if not to stay pure. Now, with the enhancements as they are, you will be spending AP's mainly in the wizard trees - more in AM if you want to go archmage, more in the Palemaster if you want to go that way, possibly somewhere like 45/25 points divided in this way. If you decide to go Palemaster, your gains are big - incidentally you will get some SLA's from Archmage too. I am not worried about that, as opposed to the true Archmage, you will get only few lower level ones and not the really nice ones on lvl4/5 noone took before because they were too expensive.

    But, if you want to go Archmage, the core abilities from side tree of Palemaster will be at waste - you will gain palemaster forms, which are of no use to you. Palemaster thus gives nothing in the sphere of core abilities to you for the investment spent.

    The suggestion would be to have a toggle on the Palemaster core abilities - either a form OR something other, and that something other might be even just a boost to necro spells (like +5 Neg Spellpower and +1% negative critical chance) or a Necromancy SLA's from AM tree core abilities. Pure Palemasters might be going the way forms give, Archmages might go the other way.

    Still I guess the Zombie (mostly) and Vampire form should be dome more appealing to a palemaster - say some bonus to Lich/Wraith forms (the only ones being used by PM) for each form they have selected or something similar, plus some changes to those making the PM even consider going into them at least on lower levels.
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  16. #36
    Community Member Esserbe's Avatar
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    Being forced to take useless forms like Zombie and Vampire, and even Wraith, as prerequisites is a step backwards and completely unacceptable. Waste 6 points on forms you will never, ever use once you have Shroud of the Lich? This is bad planning and layout.

    The abundance of multi-selectors that allow only one choice with enhancements that should be spread out to allow you to take multiple ones, such as [elemental] crit chance, makes for less variety and is a problem not only with Wizard enhancements.
    Last edited by Esserbe; 04-19-2013 at 05:00 AM.

  17. #37
    Community Member Xilth's Avatar
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    I played some time with wiz and new enhancement and some thoughts about them, some of them was already posted by other people but i still repeat them, they need it

    *) PM tree is decent there is all what we had, and little more with some balance, for me it looks realy good and it could go even on live. Only thing what im confused is Necrotic Blast at lv 12, right now on live we get it at lv 18 i don't know how this will impact game balance... PM already are powerfull at mid levels now they get even some more power.

    *) AM tree in core abilitys has SLAs but only from one school also there isn't any option for people that dosn't like them but wan't capstone. PM core abilitys are good because all PM will want shrouds but not all AMs will whant limited SLAs. For core abilitys for AM tree i would like to see some other stuff like more sp, and discount on metamagics (from main tree), also i would move there School Mastery (bdw tier 4 is to low in my opinion for this one). In core abilitys i would put:
    - tier 1 - some sp
    - tier 2 - metamagic discount
    - tier 3 - school mastery
    - tier 4 - metamagic discount
    - tier 5 - metamagic discount
    SLAs would be as options to this tiers, which would cost extra ap to take them. Also limitation to only one school have to be lifted so it can be posible to be versatile wizard, as it should be. I know that multiple SLAs are powerfull and all but... they need to be there , for balancing reasons i would put back requirements with spell focus feats (sla tier 1-3 spell focus of the same school, tier 4-5 greather spell focus feat)

    One more thing about SLAs... i relay think that Phantasman killer sla at lv 12 is mistake, its too powerfull for that lv. Right now on life to take that SLA wiz needs to be lv 15 and have to pay very much in sp and ap to get it, so not many people (just me? ) takes it, but its very good sla in mid lv content, its cheap instakill for almost every thing in gh, vale, madnes chains etc. at that levels mobs have quite low saves and only few (mainly undead) is immune to it. High cost right now makes that almost no one use it but in this implementation it will be chaep SLA and it will be avaliable at lv 12... for me it looks like to much, so at least i would put here requirement of greather spell focus feat to make this sla not so cheap.

    *) Wand Heightening - i think the same like all other people here... this is junk and the best idea is to drop it, or make it add caster levels to scrolls, so at least it could be usefull in some way.

    *) Arcane Bolt and Arcane Blast - this 2 slas are very weak and for sure not for so high tiers, low dmg and reflex saves almost make it useless for higher levels and for low levels they dosn't add much... i would remove reflex save from them and put them in lower tiers, maybe tier 2 for bolt and tier 4 for blast. Other option would be to make one more enhancement for them which would be tier 5, it would remove reflex saves from them and change 1d6 per caster level to 1d3+3 per caster lv, so we would get then: tier 2 - bolt, tier 4 - blast, tier 5 - boost to them.

    *) Right now it is posible that PM can get +1 dc from AM tree (School Mastery) , but necro AM can't take dc enhancement from PM tree (Necromantic Focus) because its tier 5. If limitation for tiers 5 from only 1 tree stays, Necromantic Focus should drop down to tier 4 or School Mastery go to tier 5 so necro AM would be at the same max posible DC as PMs. Im for second optnion, racial enhancement and extra int already boost DC for heroic content, we dosn't need more.


    This is all what i don't like in new wiz enhancements, overall i think its good and not much is needed for them to go live, its old stuff with some new toys and balance changes. My concerns are mainly for content at lv 12-18, with new trees wiz gets a lot more power for this lv range then right now on live.
    Last edited by Xilth; 04-19-2013 at 05:21 AM.

  18. #38
    Community Member Esserbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilth View Post
    PM core abilitys are good because all PM will want shrouds but not all AMs will whant limited SLAs.
    I have absolutely no interest in wasting 4 AP on forms I will definitely never use when I have Lich (Zombie, Vampire). Wraith is debatable, some like it for the incorp but I don't use it at all myself, I use Lich. On Live, you don't have to have the previous forms to take Lich.

  19. #39
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esserbe View Post
    I have absolutely no interest in wasting 4 AP on forms I will definitely never use when I have Lich (Zombie, Vampire). Wraith is debatable, some like it for the incorp but I don't use it at all myself, I use Lich. On Live, you don't have to have the previous forms to take Lich.
    This is true. It is a big waste of APs.

  20. #40
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    After a quick check archmage looks pretty meh, palemaster got a pretty big buff (herpderp lich form gets 10 PRR, and 2 extra int).

    Scroll Mastery being behind Wand Heightening in AM is absolutely terrible and needs to be changed immediately, both tree suffer greatly from having to take useless forms/SLA's to reach the capstones.

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