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  1. #1
    Lamannia Coordinator SqueakofDoom's Avatar
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    Default The Official Wizard Enhancements Discussion Thread!

    Wizard Enhancements are currently available on Lamannia.

    Please share your thoughts on the Wizard Enhancement Trees!
    Last edited by SqueakofDoom; 07-10-2013 at 10:16 AM.

  2. #2
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    Still no way to cure stat damage as PM!
    Make Neg. Energy Burst remove all Stat damage and conditions.

    Zombie and Vamp are as useless as they are live.
    -20% attack speed and quadruple light damage, are you kidding me?
    only newbs will step into this trap
    -10% move speed and double light damage, ok.
    but everything else is a joke because you nerfed them anyway with no dice increase and no neg energy per hit.

    PM capstone is meh, increase neg energy to +50% or double Int gain.

    Wand Heightening (0/3, 1 AP per rank)
    Adds +1 to the save DC's of your offensive wands.
    honestly this is the biggest **** enhancement i have ever seen and again only complete newbs will fall into this trap.
    Wands are useless as it is, you would have to completely rework Wands to make this fail of an enhancement useful.
    So just KILL IT WITH FIRE!

    Energy of the Scholar (0/3, 2 AP per rank)
    Your studies have increased your maximum Spell Points by an additional amount.
    Rank 1: 30
    Rank 2: 60
    Rank 3: 90
    AP cost to high, even with reduced AP cost to 1 not really worth

    Wand and Scroll Mastery (Pre-req: Wand Heightening, 0/3, 2 AP per rank)
    + effectiveness of your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells.
    Rank 1: 25%
    Rank 2: 50%
    Rank 3: 75%
    remove Pre-req

    All SLA
    make them meta able, or at least make the Necro SLA meta able
    because AM SLA will anyway only be used for Shirady and compared to that Necro SLA will continue to be useless.

    Improved Heightening (Pre-req: Efficient Metamagic line, 0/2, 2 AP per rank)
    Using the Heighten Spell feat costs you 1 less spell point per level of heightening.
    move to Tier 4



    All in all AP costs to high.
    Its to hard to get Meta cost reducer compared to live
    Spellpower & crit while leveling is way lower compared to live
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  3. #3
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    These both look decent from a number standpoint such that I started looking at my cleric assuming that FVS is not a ton better then cleric. I am actually thinking that 14 cleric 6 wizard is much better then 20 cleric. Go with archmage or radiant as your primary and with some stuff in archmage, radiant servant and palemaster. Unless FVS is much better then cleric then I am thinking that is what I will do true reincarnate into that or something similiar to 14 cleric 6 wizard perhaps 15 cleric 5 wizard.
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  4. #4

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    For PM...

    The choice of CON or INT was an interesting choice for stat bonus enhancements. Looking at the negative energy amp, CON bonuses, hit point bonuses, apr bonuses this looks like the meleeish option.

    Cloak of night and improved shrouding both look useful for helping against light damage in general and vampires in particular with light damage.


    AM looks pretty straight forward. Looking forward to playing around with them later.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Persiflage's Avatar
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    Definitely REMOVE wand and scroll heightening as a prerequisite for Wand and Scroll Mastery... it's a terribly ability and an utter waste of AP for any build.

    Prerequisites for Improved Heighten: WAY too high a cost. Why on earth should I have to take ALL of the efficient metamagic feats just to get Improved Heighten? I'm a freaking DC caster.

    2 AP for 5hp is still too much.

    And... Am I looking at this wrong, or is your choice "take the spell-like abilities from Archmage, or get nothing"? What has happened to the extra sp? Do I seriously need to take all the poxy SLA's from one line just to get my +2 INT capstone? Why can I only take abilities from one school? I don't want the Necro SLA's, but unless I take them I can't get School Mastery in the school I have freaking Epic Spell Focus in?!?

    My WF Necro/Conj AM is hosed, it would appear.
    Last edited by Persiflage; 04-18-2013 at 01:57 PM.
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  6. #6
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    These both look decent from a number standpoint such that I started looking at my cleric assuming that FVS is not a ton better then cleric. I am actually thinking that 14 cleric 6 wizard is much better then 20 cleric. Go with archmage or radiant as your primary and with some stuff in archmage, radiant servant and palemaster. Unless FVS is much better then cleric then I am thinking that is what I will do true reincarnate into that or something similiar to 14 cleric 6 wizard perhaps 15 cleric 5 wizard.
    Some "why" or justification would be useful for your summary

  7. #7
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    There is still too much fail in the trees, wand heightening is ****, as are summons and all feats/enhancements connected to them. Either make summons finally useful (very much doubt this will ever happen) or make them less prominent in the pm tree.

    Also, pm capstone is meh, and the loss of the secondary school for archmages makes me a sad panda.
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  8. #8
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
    Some "why" or justification would be useful for your summary
    Well spell power for non positive spells and the dcs are better for dc in specific schools, and quite possibly (this needs to be verified) you can use these SLAs in archmage or PM if the caster level is not based on whether the character is an arcane or not.

    For archmage: you get spell critical for untyped spells, universal spell power for action points spent in prestige class, you get school master 1 & 2, and secondary school mastery 1. SLAs could be good if they are divine caster level based as well.

    Hmm well I do not think palemaster is as useful as archmage for clerics. so perhaps healing/protection (for wis bumps)/archmage are better.

    You do not get the level 18 and level 20 core cleric abilities and level 5 if you go with archmage level 5, but regardless kind of sad to even think that such weird builds might be competitive anyway.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  9. #9
    2015 DDO Players Council Dodoroq's Avatar
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    Nooo... all post vanished... so in short, will elaborate later:
    I like it overall, good job. Few suggestions, though...

    General:
    - make SLA's meta-able. Enlarge, Heighten, Quicken for all at least. If that feels too strong, apply the metamagics with the reduced 1/5 original cost (quicken for 1 point etc.)

    Archmage:
    - either allow to take second line of SLA's, or allow SLA's to be combined - by that I mean Core Tier 1 selector has all schools lvl1 SLA's, I take Grease. Core tier II selector has all school SLAs lvl1 save for Conjuration, where there is Web. This way one can at least mix them as he did now.
    - Change Wand Heightening to "Wand and Scroll Heightening: Adds +1/+3/+6 to the caster level of your Arcane wands and Scrolls." Would at least help in durations of scrolling Fire Shield etc. Divines can have complementary divine ability (helps somewhat at heal scrolls etc.), bards and arties universal skill (possibly more expensive in AP's).

    Palemaster:
    - Zombie and Vampire still unusable. do not have any fluffy suggestions for zombies, but Vampires might get DR 5(10)/Silver or Good.
    - Make the costs of the forms lower. Permanent payment from SP max does not work as these are autogrants, but reduce the cost to... half possibly?
    - the capstone - like it as it is different, but please raise the amplification to 10% at least. I am no fan of another raising of DCs, this seems to be a nice option.
    - Deathless Vigor - I would nerf it by just applying while in a shroud, else it is pretty a no-brainer for gaining cheap HP's for archmages.
    - Cloak of Night - would remove Negative energy from the list... or possibly not, not sure about that one.
    - Improved Shrouding - Vampires should get 100% lower Light vulnerability. 220% with maximum effort spent is still enough.

    Other than that, I like them, they look very well thought over and I can see more build options raising (Mithral-full-plate-clad knights in wraith form with tensers, ...)
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  10. #10
    Community Member Persiflage's Avatar
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    So, Archmage is now: pick one school, stay in it. Take ALL SLA's from that school whether you want to or not just to get the capstone you should get anyway for staying pure. If the SLA's from the school you specialise in suck, specialise in a different school. Versatility is for wimps.

    Oh, but you can have +1 DC to a secondary school. That makes it all better.

    My Wizard on live has the Hypnotism enchant SLA, Web SLA from Conj., and has pumped Necro DC's. If I want to pump my Necro DC's now, I have the option of taking all the Necro SLA's or... um... No, that's it. My points are pretty much all spent for me.

    Congratulations, you've done it, you've found the PERFECT way to make those of us who were still holding out become Shiradi evocation AM's.
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  11. #11
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    There's only two options now.. You either go Pale Master or Archmage for the capstone and gain an extra +3 Intelligence and +1 Necro DC from the opposite tree over what we could previously obtain on live. This is a change I welcome since it buffs my current character.

    The issue I'm concerned with is Spell Power. We need to know what the changes are specifically before we can even comment on what the class enhancements offer us. So far it feels extremely linear in choice, which is the opposite of what I was expecting. Obviously people who play Tukaws or melee Wizards may have a different opinion, but as a pure classed min/max Arcane, there really no significant choices other than what Archmage SLA's you want.

    I'm also concerned with the SP increase of Archmage: I'd like that back please. Thanks.

    Edit: As Persiflage pointed out, that fact we're stuck in one SLA is incredibly ridiculous.
    Last edited by Gimpinator; 04-18-2013 at 02:53 PM.
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  12. #12
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    Bug: Can't access I-IV enhancement spells on my character sheet window in the enhancement panel under active enhancements, only spell V (Cyclonic Blast) after having bought them all in the Archmage tree. All 5 spells should be showing up, not just the top one.

  13. #13
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    I assume the eventual addition of wild mage will add the ability to spec into another element/force. Otherwise... ugh.

  14. #14
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    Anyone check if the SLA be metamagiced?
    Last edited by oweieie; 04-18-2013 at 04:33 PM.

  15. #15
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    Did not have much time (tried doing it on lunch lol). I noticed that the Archmage for me was replacing lower abilities. I took evocation (Magic Missle). When I took the gust of wind, Magic Missle no longer apperead in my charector sheet to hot bar. The same happened when i took chain missle. Also the toon i tried this on was mostly pale master with some Archmage enhancements thrown in (i.e. spell pen).
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  16. #16
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    Hurray for 70 INT. I can knock the chest in EE End of the Road now. (without using magister's caster level bonus)

    My character's spell power is pretty meh though.
    Last edited by oweieie; 04-18-2013 at 03:43 PM.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpinator View Post
    I'm also concerned with the SP increase of Archmage: I'd like that back please. Thanks.
    Spell points and universal spell power are both covered as free for each point spent in the archmage tree. +1 spell power, +2 SP per AP spent. It doesn't look like a as much SP gained but I didn't see any max SP loss to go with it either. They also have an energy of line so far missing from most trees.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aashrym View Post
    Spell points and universal spell power are both covered as free for each point spent in the archmage tree. +1 spell power, +2 SP per AP spent. It doesn't look like a as much SP gained but I didn't see any max SP loss to go with it either. They also have an energy of line so far missing from most trees.
    Comparing my Wizard's SP pool on live:

    Archmage V: +400 SP
    Spell Mastery II: -125
    Secondary Spell Mastery I: -50
    Evocation III SLA: -125

    Total: +100 SP

    Lamannia: (Assuming 60 points spent between the two trees which is probably the least you would invest)

    +120 SP

    On second thought, I support the change. :-)
    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Math never helps solve problems, it only further complicates them. Far too often players use it as a tool to push there own agenda and twist numbers to cause strife where its not due.

  19. #19
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Initial thoughts from the perspective on wiz from a stubborn PM that's been tinkering with the things since before (and after) they were cool:

    Second verse same as the first: Kill or fix wand heightening so it's properly useful across the leveling range.

    Between no endgame-relevant debuff-augmenting capacity inherent in the PM tree its-self, spell pen AM only, and content creators' general trend of taking every point of possible DC as the benchmark, I'm not seeing a whole lot of folks picking up the PM tree by its-self and calling it good. Note that I'm not to saying there's not good stuff in it, just that I really don't see it as a stand-alone tree given quest-makers history. More likely to see PM focused folks targeting around 30+ points in AM for slas and Int boni at least, and the rest PM to maintain self-healing power, with maybe 10-12 points spent in a racial.

    edit: If you do want to encourage (lemme bold that: encourage) folks to focus one one tree, I'd highly recommend at a minimum setting sla DCs to your 1/2 caster level+int mod, and adding a debuff-rider of points spent in tree plus a bare minimum of a native 20% chance for debuffing a given stat by more than one point so it's not wiped out by regen by the next cast, or a given save based on whatever form you're in.

    On what Am brings to the table for the particular toon and approaches I'm most familiar with: It was nice to see the removal of a given spell-focus for the SLAs (though in practice, you're not getting very far without focus), and I can see utility for conjuration (web/cloudkill for some control), evocation (mm/arcane bolt/necrotic bolt/necrotic blast for a real cheap chain), and necromancy (Enervation).

    On summon: It's nice to see them(it) raised to caster-level CRs, and I'd really love to give kudos there, but at 2 points a pop in a long chain with an x/3 progression for each step, and the previously mentioned 30-point effectiveness-tax from taking AM, it suffers from the same bloated costs as the SD line, with far, far less benefit, since you removed the capacity to summon anything that would stay out of the line of fire. (Conceptually, I'm gonna miss the '3 liches walk into a bar' joke, even if in practice it was a really bad joke for anything above EN).
    Last edited by Scraap; 04-18-2013 at 07:42 PM. Reason: English.

  20. #20
    Community Member LordRavnos's Avatar
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    Firstly I hate losing the original wizard capstone to AM. I want to be a PM( some nice changes in there and I had a lot of AP to burn when I was done) but I lost one of the best reasons there was to be a pure wizard, the sweet meta reducing capstone! Either give us a special extra tree that is just general wizard stuffs( for all classes really) for capstone, and stuff like spell pen and whatnot that all wizards should have, or give it to all trees.

    Second issue, the cooldowns for the SLA from PM tree are much longer, I dare say double. Was this an intended change or an oopsies? Very curious. If I cant spam them back to back, I would at least like to meta them up, even if its at a reduced effectiveness or at a reduced cost of the meta added on. At least heighten so it is not saved against as often.

    This was just a fast play with it, otherwise I like it so far, but I want to really check into it before I decide yay or nay


    Edit: I agree with the PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF *insert God or Goddess of choice here* get RID of the wand heightening as a pre to get the wand and scroll mastery. Or at least make it better, as suggested have it boost the caster level of the scroll or wand so we can make buffs longer and damage spells do a bit more( assuming anyone uses em, I know I rather just use a SLA then a wand). Its just a AP tax, and not fun
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