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  1. #81
    Community Member Aussir's Avatar
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    1 - Why are sorcerers still being forced into being Savants and NOTHING ELSE?!
    2 - Whoever thought that making a fire/earth savant have a cancerous tumor growing out of their arm is pretty, please go die in a pit of tar. Get rid of that poo.
    Last edited by Aussir; 06-28-2013 at 12:10 PM.
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  2. #82

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    Looks like the only problem that has been fixed for sorcerers relative to the last showing is that +MCL works again.

    The really short version: Sorcerers have been nerfed in every way.

    A brief and incomplete summary of the issues:
    -No Force Criticals
    -Worse SLAs then druids*
    -Less spell power then every other casting class*. Heck, even a mystic monk gets 1 spell power per point.
    -No Scroll mastery
    -Enhancements generally weaker then the comparable ones in other classes - take the temp sp generation in sorc and compare to the others.
    - Fewer MCL than on live, due to breaking the ToD sets
    - Lore items are now terrible
    -- Major Arcane lore now gives +3% critical chance, no critical multiplier
    -- Superior Lightning Lore now gives +6% critical chance, no critical multiplier
    -- Overall, criticals have been heavily nerfed. You now get on the order of a 19% chance to deal double damage, instead of a 21% chance to deal 2.75x damage. That nets out to be about half as powerful as live.


    * To be fair, I haven't looked at all the other classes yet. Maybe you nerfed them.

  3. #83
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    No force criticals.
    No new prestige enhancement.
    All the trees look exactly the same.
    No scroll and wand mastery.
    LORE ITEMS HEAVILY NERFED. SUPERIOR LORE NOW GRANT ONLY 6% CRITICAL CHANCE INSTEAD OF THE PREVIOUS 12% AND 0.75 SPELL CRITICAL DAMAGE.
    Spell critical chance lowered from 21% to 19% (8% enh, 5% feat, 6% item).
    Spell critical damage lowered from x2.75 to x2.50.
    No new prestige enhancement.
    ToD set broken. Not granting MCL items.


    Congratz on making sub-par a complete class. You listen to our feedbacks, eh? We complained about: criticals, critical damage, every tree = to each other, ToD set useless. And look at what you did.

    Too busy nerfing them I guess.

    Submitting a bug report for every issues listed above.
    Last edited by Wizza; 06-28-2013 at 01:50 PM.
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  4. #84
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Submitted bug reports. But I did so even in the previous build of Lamannia and everything went live exactly the same so my hopes of being actually listened is 0.
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  5. #85
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    Having only one prestige tree for sorcerers is unacceptable. I guess I won't be playing my two sorcs anymore. I also agree about the spell power and crit complaints.

  6. #86
    Community Member Aussir's Avatar
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    Back when "Alpha" came out, I warned you guys to not dream that things would get a lot different other than bugs fixed and maybe AP cost changed. I got accused of being mad, that it was just Alpha, that things would change and bla bla.

    Well... guess who was right in the end?
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  7. #87
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Amazing, oh I can't wait to get home tonight and check out how much the devs did NOT listen to our feedback...
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  8. #88
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    So...let me get this straight: you severely weaken the sorcerer's main attraction and purpose (spell damage) and yet you're going to add higher, harder level content and keep the content that's already here as it is, even though sorcerers (and many wizards) have turned to drastic measures in order to even function in groups.

    This is getting silly. It's hard enough to get acceptable DC's as a sorcerer, but now it's going to be even harder, not only to get those DC's, but to even be of use in high level content without resorting to a shiradi caster or some other off-the-wall build to be thought of in the near future.

  9. #89
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Oh, I almost forgot to mention the most stupid thing of this tree:

    We are still getting 0.75 Spell power for every point spent in the tree FOR OUR MAIN ELEMENT. Making it 1 SP per point spent would only add a total of 20 (TWENTY SP).

    Every other class is getting the 1 SP per point spent OR EVEN 1.5 SP PER POINT SPENT.

    Listened to feedbacks eh?
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  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Oh, I almost forgot to mention the most stupid thing of this tree:

    We are still getting 0.75 Spell power for every point spent in the tree FOR OUR MAIN ELEMENT. Making it 1 SP per point spent would only add a total of 20 (TWENTY SP).

    Every other class is getting the 1 SP per point spent OR EVEN 1.5 SP PER POINT SPENT.

    Listened to feedbacks eh?
    Basic what they did was screw sorc's up and down the line p. They either have no concept of how to play ddo or just do not care. Sorc's going fall further behind the DC of wizards. At the same time Wizards will get closer in spell points and damage. With the universal spell power it helps wizards a ton more then sorcerers.

    Now lets talk about if play a human or half-elf sorcerer to have dps and dc's, hmm they just destroyed this idea with leaving out scroll line. Making a casters dps depend on the points they spend in the tree is dumb to. Reality this makes you feel pin in spending points things you do not want just to help your spell power. This way of doing things does not open flexibility up it limits it, I don't care about all the elements as a sorcerer, I don't have the spell slots to care about them. This really why playing the game less and less and less. I have no trust you will not destroy my builds. I tired of redoing my characters. I want to find something I enjoy playing and keep playing it.

  11. #91
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    I hate how the sorcerer thread is dead. We could at least get a justification for the critical nerf. Personally I would prefer to have a second tree option if they feel the nerf needs to happen.

  12. #92
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddong View Post
    I hate how the sorcerer thread is dead. We could at least get a justification for the critical nerf. Personally I would prefer to have a second tree option if they feel the nerf needs to happen.
    I've PMed Vargouille a couple of days ago, asking him to reply in here since we are pretty much getting screwed.

    It was the end of the week so I understand the no response. However, it's monday now.

    Expecting a conversation like the one it's happening in the cleric enhancement thread or the one that happened with Bards. I don't want the usual "sorry submit a bug report" answer and then the Dev disappears from this thread for another month.

    Conversation. Comments. Brainstorming.
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  13. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    I've PMed Vargouille a couple of days ago, asking him to reply in here since we are pretty much getting screwed.

    It was the end of the week so I understand the no response. However, it's monday now.

    Expecting a conversation like the one it's happening in the cleric enhancement thread or the one that happened with Bards. I don't want the usual "sorry submit a bug report" answer and then the Dev disappears from this thread for another month.

    Conversation. Comments. Brainstorming.
    Yeah, this thread could use some dev commentary. Some idea of the intent would be good if nothing else. Is it meant to be a major nerf? Are they planning to revisit it like they with clerics? Something.

  14. #94
    2014 DDO Players Council ishr's Avatar
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    given the fact that sorcs will be nerfed heavily in spell power, have DCs reduced, scroll healing eliminated, and that despite the outrage in alpha these changes still made it to beta, i think its safe to say the decision to kill the sorc is a foregone conclusion. the devs have taken a policy of radio silence on the sorc, which is further evidence that these changes are here to stay. what the goal is confuses me, as this will only decrease player interest and subscription to the game, when you make a class weaker in every way without introducing new roles or build possibilities, instead of generating buzz, rebuilding/TRing and increased play bypeople who were formerly uninterested in that class, you make it unnatractive to everyone. maybe this is a first step to phasing the sorc out of the game? the shiradi wizard is already the dominant caster, so these cbanges confuse me...

  15. #95
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    There is no intended reduction in damage output for arcane casters, especially in their chosen damage type. This is explicitly true for spell power and criticals. (Maximum static critical damage may be lower than before.)

    It's true we have not spent as much time on some classes as others in the last month. We are sorry if we haven't had time to address specific concerns for each class.

    We don't have hard to numbers to give right now because we haven't done that work yet. The goal is to have similar or higher levels of spellpower, though we acknowledge spellpower across all damage types for a given individual may not look identical to live.

    We do expect to take into account all enhancement related spell damage, such as: Electrocution: Whenever you cast an Electric or Sonic damage spell, you gain +5 to your Electric and Sonic Spell Power for 6 seconds. This stacks up to 3 times.

  16. #96
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    Default Sorcs Spell power

    Just add 0.75 to universal spell power plus 0.75 to the element of the tree you put point's in to a total of 1.5 total ( last time i check wiz got 1 per point spent, to be similar to what pale master gets now) and most of our raging would be gone ;p

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    There is no intended reduction in damage output for arcane casters, especially in their chosen damage type. This is explicitly true for spell power and criticals. (Maximum static critical damage may be lower than before.)

    It's true we have not spent as much time on some classes as others in the last month. We are sorry if we haven't had time to address specific concerns for each class.

    We don't have hard to numbers to give right now because we haven't done that work yet. The goal is to have similar or higher levels of spellpower, though we acknowledge spellpower across all damage types for a given individual may not look identical to live.

    We do expect to take into account all enhancement related spell damage, such as: Electrocution: Whenever you cast an Electric or Sonic damage spell, you gain +5 to your Electric and Sonic Spell Power for 6 seconds. This stacks up to 3 times.
    Yes the if you cast element of your choose and gain 5 spell power in that element. That works great if can cast over and over and over that element. So reality we need to hit the free spells over and over again so we can keep the spellpower going, woot. So much fun. I would love you to change this mechanic. I never enjoy things like this and in turn lead to people using macros. 15 spell power that will never be exactly that, because you have to keep it going. Hmm so you have to lose a % of it and I am sure you will account for the whole 15 . If keep going must of the time you can get up to maybe 80% efficiency. Must people be lucky to keep at 50% efficiency. So yes please count that as spellpower we always have.

  18. #98
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    T
    It's true we have not spent as much time on some classes as others in the last month. We are sorry if we haven't had time to address specific concerns for each class.

    [/i]
    Ok, this point is fine - as long as you INTEND to spend the time on all classes in the future. I don't know how you plan on perfecting these enhancements by incorporating our feedback while continuing on with the closed beta for shadowfell. August 19th is about 6 weeks away, and this system is nowhere near finished; not even close.

    And I can imagine all the bugs that are yet to be discussed with the expansion.
    Cetus Heroic Lives: #32/32 | Epic Completionist: #20/24 | Iconic Lives: #6/6
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  19. #99
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    There is no intended reduction in damage output for arcane casters, especially in their chosen damage type. This is explicitly true for spell power and criticals. (Maximum static critical damage may be lower than before.)

    It's true we have not spent as much time on some classes as others in the last month. We are sorry if we haven't had time to address specific concerns for each class.

    We don't have hard to numbers to give right now because we haven't done that work yet. The goal is to have similar or higher levels of spellpower, though we acknowledge spellpower across all damage types for a given individual may not look identical to live.

    We do expect to take into account all enhancement related spell damage, such as: Electrocution: Whenever you cast an Electric or Sonic damage spell, you gain +5 to your Electric and Sonic Spell Power for 6 seconds. This stacks up to 3 times.
    I wonder if those who are complaining about spellpower have taken into account the caster level increases?

    Personally, I'm just disappointed that all sorcerers have to be savants, just like how it is on live. Now, I suspect that with the expansion coming up, you might not be able to add another tree before the enhancements and the expansion go live. But would it be possible to put this on the developer to-do list?

  20. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    I wonder if those who are complaining about spellpower have taken into account the caster level increases?

    Personally, I'm just disappointed that all sorcerers have to be savants, just like how it is on live. Now, I suspect that with the expansion coming up, you might not be able to add another tree before the enhancements and the expansion go live. But would it be possible to put this on the developer to-do list?
    Max Caster levels are not increasing. If you stay pure 20 sorc, and activate the capstone elemental form, you get +5 MCL, in exchange for a -6 to Acid casting, and -3 MCL to the other 3 elements (not just caster levels like on live). Currently, with a ToD set (they don't give a bonus after the enhancement pass, and maj made it clear they don't plan to fix it), you only need 18 levels of sorcerer to get +5 MCL.

    Overall, nerfing our caster levels does not, in fact, compensate for nerfing our spell power.

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