Does it make the ability more poweriful sure, do like the design. No. This does not change my mind about the design it just makes it a must have if choose to play Sorcerer.
Yes I love how you show if spend every freaking point my Savent tree and keep my buff going I can get up to 140. That a joke to me. If want to spend any points outside my Savents, great I lose dps. Woot before I did not. This system sucks and tired of you jokers defending it. Give use tempory buffs to get dps we use to be able do all the time and say look we did not nerf your class. When a game that final comes out that lets me have more selection in character development. I will say woot goodbye nerfing changing ddo that wants me to spend money changing my toons instead making new content and new abiltiies. The lose of hit points from Racial trees, saving throws and other stuff is not a nerf? To maintain the dps we use to get. What a joke you people are. Look we not nerfing you. Just use this stupid buff and keep up all the time by drinking pots. Buy buy buy.... I really would not care if made freaking content faster with all this new income. Though you only concern is milk this game until everyone gets tired of your slow production of content and your over haul after over haul of the game. Really pick a freaking direction and stick to it. If wanted a new game I would have left a long time ago. Stop changing old things unless they are game breaking. The only reason I still play this game after you destroy my ranger/monk build was I loved playing Sorcerer, change that I will have no reasons left to stay to this game. I have lost all trust in your company long time ago. Trust is I build a character in the faith you will not change or modify my abilities to much to make my character LESS FUN. That is nothing like what you do. I know companies or in the business of making money. Though I am in the business spending my money wisely on company that appreciate my business.
WHY DID YOU TAKE SCROLL MASTARY AWAY??? WAS THAT GAME BREAKING?
Sometimes I think companies greed makes them lose sight of how it destroys there longevity.
Why does it matter what another prc name is in this game any more? It isn't even a dnd game any more. It is best to think of this game as something else, an action-adventure mmo that has the same monster and minimal likeness to dnd but is not actually dnd based.
What I pity are the new players who come to ddo post enhancement pass, they took something that should be simple and turned it into a nightmare even for experienced players. Enhancements as they are on live are simple to understand and simple to explain.
As it is with every class now, particularly drow and sorcs getting the short end of the stick. I can't complain arcane has been OP for years. Nothing fun about destroying a whole room of mobs with one spell...at least nothing fun for the rest of the party.
Frankly, I say scape the whole project and move onto something fool-proof....like ...well there is nothing I can offer as suggestion that turbine can't screw up...at least the sky is still blue.
bare bones live sorcerer spell damage =
100 base + 120 enhancement + 120 equipment + 150 max + 75 emp + 15 implement = 580 (5.8 x base)
580 x 0.149 = 86.42 spell power increase needed to not be a nerf
So with electrocution being 50 and savant capstone being 30 that almost gets us there.
But the enhancement bonus has to stay at 120 (1.5 USP per AP for all in).
It will still be a nerf for force sorcs and for people that invest in their off element (+ arcane levels could make up for the minus caster levels in select spells).
Savants get 1.5 USP per AP (gets us back up to 120)
Remove the penalty to spell power in your off element for people that prefer to play generalists.
Consider decreasing the cap on electrocution to +30 and giving the capstone back its + 20 USP (in addition to the + element SP) to make their damage output less theoretical and more practical (especially for people where it doesn't follow their playstyle... you are taking away choice).
It should be noted that other classes may dip 1 sorcerer to pick up the +50 electrocution if it is "that good."
Thanks for your attention!
It is blatantly obvious you want people to blast through their mana like crazy using all spells at their disposal instead of their favorites (spell timers after all). (again, that goes against table top.) But also that makes it apparent (even if unintended) that you desire people to chug pots like crazy to "stay in the game" as a caster without blue isn't worth as much as one with. Adjusting the timer so that it is at least double the 6 seconds would help to loosen up the tinfoil a bit.
Quite honestly I want static not dynamic buffs but I doubt you'll revert and instead make it much harder on the server. I am surprised you didn't turn these into action boosts for casters much like meleers have. Between the two, I will fully admit that I like this auto dymaic buff over the on demand action buff.
While I, for one, greatly appreciate your communication with us, this statement rubs me the wrong way.
Let me try to put this on the other foot.
Can YOU convice US that nerfing a significant portion of sorcerer damage is better game design and more fun than leaving it as is?
I'm guessing that someone somewhere decided that savants are OP, so there was a discussion and then the nerf.
Here's the deciding thing that has nothing to do with math:
Currently on Live I can have maximum sp in my element, maximum crits, full sp reduction lines in empower and maximize, a huge chunk of sp towards at LEAST one more element, Wand and scroll mastery, and lots of toughness with a few AP left over for other things.
Is this possible with the new system? If not, why not?
P.S. The whole stacking mechanism is a pain to manage, and IMO, very UNfun. It's creeping into lots of different places in this game, and frankly, I find it annoying. Please reconsider these.
Last edited by danotmano1998; 07-09-2013 at 12:42 PM.
<-Curelite Bottling Company->
Originally Posted by Chilldude
Thanks for giving us a new sorc prestige tree in update 20. I mistyped 19 initially.
Last edited by maddong; 07-09-2013 at 11:43 PM.
When I read that thread, it didn't state the "later in the year" bit. That sucks much.
Almost everyone gets a shiny new PrE and/or a complete rework of the enhancements and then Sorcerers are left in the dust, with a dozens of bugs.
And then we have the silence. We talk and talk and, if we are lucky, a developer answers us every two weeks.
pointing out spell power from s[ell spamm build up... really??/ honestly?? you think THIS is also a good idea... so these two things alone leads me to believe you don't even play the game youself any longer.....
as for the crit line.... you do know that trying to play an arcane whose a direct damage dealer in your high end content is... well to be nice about it... completely and utterly USELESS.... and you want to lower spell critical damage.... if your anything other than a dc caster you DEPEND on criticals to do ANYTHIGN in EE. So you just don't want direct damage casters doing ee then I take it????
You want hard numbers, how about you simply look at the hard facts of what your doing to a class with this system changes... how about you go actually, I dunno, play the class in groups in higher end content and then come back to us and go ok heres how OUR playtesting went.
I don't know what you guys are up to, but this system does NOT help draconic and magister in end game, this system hurts them actually, and this system hammers the **** out of shiardi based sorcs.... and i know some people will say finally... you know the reason people run shiradi is that its the only end game arcane damage ed worth running. Don't look at the numbers and tell us well leveling will be easier, look you get to teir 5 stuff quicker.. you get some more spell power quiecker... we don't... number 1.... and number two even if we did.... whats the point of leveling the class when your just gonna have to tr it when you hit 20 or 25 or 28 anyway and you go to run high end stuff and realize you cant, people don't want you, or well the simple fact of sorc or wiz not being 100% dc based will mean you just completely and utterly suck.
I love playing my sorcs over the years, I've always loved my sorc, but when I started playing ee's i benched my sorc because in draconic and magister, he simply cant swing, with this nice new shiny system I see him being benched for a long long long time, unless this new tree that they're talkin about for the end of the year is the sickest slickest shinniest thing that these guys EVER THOUGH about putting out.
This is from the current build, on 7/12/13.
Alternating Current doesn't work.
Calitomes set (at least) from ToD does not recognize the new enhancements - contrary to the release notes.
Electrocution claims to provide a stack for casting an Electric / Sonic spell. In reality, it provides up to 1 stack for striking a creature with an electric spell. This prevents sorcerers from keeping there stacks up between fights. It should either provide a stack per cast (regardless of whether or not a target is hit), or provide a stack per hit. Changing the duration per my earlier suggestion could work too.
Alternating Current is much worse then the FvS version. The FvS version gives 10sp on a crit, verses 3sp 30% of the time. Since an FvS can attain a crit chance of 19%, even against a single target they can expect 1.9sp per cast verses 0.9sp for the sorcerer. Also, the sorcerer version is on cast, so against a group the FvS's chances of proc'ing the effect scale with the number of targets struck. Finally, the FvS version applies to essentially all spells they might cast (fire, force, light, etc), where the sorcerer version is limited to a single element.
Sorcerer's don't have access to wand & scroll mastery anymore.
Sorcerer SLAs of the same tier share a cool down, preventing any useful combinations of them.
The weaker enhancements of sorcerer are a recurring theme. Other caster classes get a critical enhancement for all of their relevant schools. Sorcerers have to buy them per element, and can't select force. At some point, you need to look at the sorcerer enhancements, compare them to the equivilent in other trees, and rebalance.
Sorcerer's still have the critical & force damage issues. I see the changes to the wizard tree, which is a step in the right direction on criticals (for wizards), but still doesn't solve the power loss completely. Of course, you could address the force damage issues with the new tree. If you up the spell critical multiplier to 2.5, and adjust all the trees to give the same crit chance as the wizard tree does now, that should bring criticals back to where they are on live.
Druid SLAs are much better than Sorcerer SLAs:
Druid: Produce Flame
Ranged, no save. Deals 15d2 + 30 = 52.5 base.
Shocking Grasp: 25 per cast, Fire/Acid Spray: 17.5 AoE, save for half, touch range. Naics, 37.5, save for none, ranged.
Clearly, produce flame wins.
Druid: Creeping Cold
Damage: 2 * 14.5 + 2 * 29 + 2 * 43.5 over 12s = 174 base damage, no save
Electric Loop / Snowball Storm: 25 AoE, save for half.
Acid Arrow: 6 * 15 = 90 over 12s, no save
Scortch: 30 AoE, save for half
Again, druid wins by miles.
Druid: Call Lightning (5+1d5 for 15 levels) = 112.5 ranged, save for half
Lightning Bolt: 1.5 (double strike) * 50 = 75 damage, save for half, limited AoE
Fireball / Acid Ball: 50, save for half, AoE
Forst Lance: 3 * 30, save for half, ranged
Call Lightning beats Lightning Bolt & Frost Lance. Fireball / Acid Ball only competes if you average hitting 3 targets. And against large groups, the druid wins thanks to Storm of Vengance as an SLA.
Last edited by chrisdinus7; 07-12-2013 at 05:55 PM.
Here's our current plan for some upcoming Savant changes (may be some time before they are visible on Lamannia):
- Reduce the spell power provided by "Eletrocution" stacking-buff style enhancements.
- Increase the energy-type spell power provided by Core enhancements.
- Add a new Tier 5 ability that gives a sizable chunk in secondary (non-opposed) elements. This would include Force as one of the options.
Exact numbers to be determined.
Hopefully we can get scroll and wand mastery back, rebalance a few enhancements across classes, plus a few looks at the SLAs next. Also, despite the release notes, the ToD sets do NOT recognize the new enhancements, but again, clearly moving in the right direction there.
Finally, a minor point: I don't like the cosmetic for the new elemental forms, and I think it'll hurt your sale of cosemetic gear, since it doesn't really do much if you are in form.
When in the earth construct form I cannot cast repair on myself neither can others. I have to leave the form to cast repair on myself.
I edited a book!
Thelanis player: Arekkeh, Kimberlei (heroic completionist), Lehren (heroic/epic completionist), Natheme, Terpsikhore
You need simply to accept the fact that you gotta do a Force tree. These "sizable chuck" will be nothing without Spell critical chance in Force as well.
Also, you need to up the Spell power given by core abilities to 1.75 SP per element and 0.75 Universal. Right now, a caster will probably take ~50 points in their savant tree. 50*1.75 is 87 SP + the 25 from Core. That is really close BUT A BIT LESS than live. With Electrocution buff-style, Spell power can go up ONLY in boss fights.
This achieves 2 things: the small nerf you are trying to give us and the buff that you are trying TO SAY that you want to give to us.
You still haven't answered about Spell critical damage. How exactly you "don't want to nerf us" by nerfing our Spell critical damage? I can also skip the fact that you nerfed our crit chance by 2%, by from 250 to 200% crit damage is a much bigger deal.
Now, after you solve the above problems, here is the list of the others:
- The trees feel exactly the same.
- NO WAND AND SCROLL MASTERY
- Still having useless MCL/CL bonuses. FIX MCL ISSUES
- Capstone absolutely worthless
I tend to agree with what a lot of people have been saying about the spell power and spell crits, The nerf needs to be rolled back a bit and at least the spell power needs to have a higher static bonus. Please get us at least close to live right now.
I did a side by side comparison with my Live lvl 18 Sorc (finishing last TR) and the exact same character on test. While I was able to get close to the same enhancements, the overall effect was still less.
As everyone has mentioned we're missing the crit damage multiplier, Wand/Scroll mastery and some Spell power. However I spent the same number of enhancement points, 72, and I got 13 fewer enhancements, or equivalents, (3 racial, 2 each force\flame manipulation, 6 deadly storms, 2 elect crit). Additionally I had fewer hit points, and lower spell power in everything (except acid -my opposite element-that was actually higher) and lower inherent resistance 20 elec rests on live down to 15 on lam.
So here's my 2 cents I'd like to see change:
Increase static spell power, there has been plenty of math on this already
return damage multipliers to Live levels, again plenty of math on this already.
"One with storm" (and equivalent for other savant lines) should be either 5 resist per rank, maybe with enough ranks to get to 30 resist at level 18/20 or 1st rank 5, second rank +10, third rank +15 to get to 30 resist by level 18/20
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