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Adumbrate, Sienn, Selket, Synaxis, Ognwe-, Halpin, Sivva, Bigstick, Jemus, ColichemardeOriginally Posted by Gunga
If you ignore the mentioned "nerfs" that have been mentioned about the melee tree, can you not split your points 50/30 or something and gain some nice + to your spells while still taking a lot of the melee stuff? In all honesty 80 spell power may seem like a lot but in reality, in the old system we only had +65 and it wasnt universal. It was 65 for two schools and you had to spend more to get the others. So if you only spent 30 points in the caster tree you are only 35sp worse off in which ever school you spent points on and 30 spell power better off in every school you didnt used to spend points in. And when you add atleast +20 you will gain from the new spellcraft skill, that brings the loss to 15 spell power. Now that is not a huge loss is it.
To me this sounds fair. Why should a hybrid who has good melee abilities be able to equal my spell power as a pure caster. I would actually be more inclined to say the cost of being a hybrid should be more like -50 spell power, which it now would be if you split your points 50/30. But again if you add spellcraft of only 20, that reduces to 30 spell power.
It just seems logical that the more you invest in melee, the worse your spell power will get and vice versa. You should not be allowed to have the best of both worlds and I think that is what hybrids used to have in the old enhancement system.
Hey does that doublestrike action boost depend on a form, or can I use it while say fighting unarmed?
De'Corenai of Argonessen. If you've seen me, you know what I'm talking about.
why no spellpower for melee tree? Druid is a HYBRID class! give it at least heal and cold spellpower.
Fatal Harrier - is dead now, duration is a bad joke and costs far more points then live.
Reaving Roar - why nerf a meh enhancement? true it needed downscaling in lowlvl but it was anyway useless in endlvl
Alpha Strike - needs something to make it scale, we dont need another cleave (especially not when 99% of us in LD anyway) we need something useful
Bear form is still a sad joke
Taenebrae, Daemonsoul, Daemoneyes and Daemonheart of Argonessen
Glitzakram - Trade Thread
The positive spellpower only affects the base amount of the spell, whereas the healing amplification is 10% increase based on the total amount.
(edit: actually, it doesn't even work sometimes on myself for whatever reason.)
Its the bottom of the 9th, one out (alpha) and chicken little is two runs ahead.
There is a wizard on first base, and a sorcerer on second base.
The Devs are the home team, and time out has been called.
Will the Devs pull it off, or will they lose the game to chicken little?
Speaking as someone who has played every class and race the old fashion way,
I am distressed and upset at the current events playing out in this enhancement alpha.
You, the Devs, are about to implement a nerf to every class in the game except two.
That is a pretty strong charge, let's talk it over.
Archmage wizards probably need some more flexablity.
Other than that, the arcane powerhouses (Sorcerer and Wizard) almost always come out on top.
The enhancements for the melee is coming along, until one considers that melees exist in
with other classes. When those classes suffer, the melee classes suffer.
Most melees have gotten to the point of realizing that sorcerers and wizards often don't care.
That is why we melees carry haste clickies, haste potions, and melee aclarity items.
That is why we melees carry permanent blur items.
We can get along if we have to without them.
But we melees have another Symbiosis, a strong greater one that is much more important.
If this group is weak, we melee are also weak.
It is the group of classes that can cast mass curative spells.
This group includes Bards, Druids, Clerics, and Favored Souls.
The games fate and destiny are interwoven with their destiny.
These four classes have some else in common.
All four of them currently only have tier two prestige classes.
Since three tier should exists, one can obviously concluded that each of these classes
should be increased in enhancement power by 50% during this enhancement update.
Bards also suffer as already needing upgrades in many forms.
They sit at the bottom of all the classes, needing much love.
I will not list in detail what should be changed as you the Devs already have my very
details notes on the subject documented for later access.
While some will say, the spellsinger looks kinda nice, I say you have a long way to go.
The bard needs a lot of work, you know what it is, do it.
Fifty percent is a lot of power addition.
Fear is the original sin.
Be bold, be creative, show us how smart you can be.
Some nice improvements here over live, but it needs some tweaking. The addition of SLAs is huge, as is the evening out of spellpower with other casters.
RE: changing seasons. you should either buff the in-season powers, or improve flexibility and control over what season you're in. As is the bonuses are really too small to bother really adjusting your strategy to fit your season. Particularly given your limited selection (for example if you're DoTing a boss you're going to use creeping cold).
non-scaling abilties: They're bad. I'm looking at you spring resurgence and winter's heart. Make them scale in some way so they don't start out super powered and end up useless in EE.
This one still has lots of problems, and needs serious work.
1. Needs Spellpower with AP spent
2. Needs spellpower with AP spent
3. Seriously, they're still primarily a caster, they need spellpower
4. make non-stacking bonuses stack
5. Make abilties scale (eg. reaving roar)
6. Defensive action boosts are more trouble then they're worth. Make the defensive bonuses passive or activated on an effect (eg. chance on being hit/hitting).
7. While I can't say I've tested this stuff extensively (my druid was a caster before I TRed) a lot of the numbers just seem too low.
For example fatal harrier seems like a really cool idea, but since it doesn't stack with melee alacrity or haste it's going to be pretty rare to get it up to the point where it's doing any good. you'd have to kill 5 enemies in a row in less then 8 second each to get what really amounts to 10% more attack speed over haste. I know from using masters blitz that this is going to be pretty unrealistic in most situations. I have blitz attempts sputter out regularly on EE because I can't string together enough kills in 15secs each to really get it going, and that's on a toon that does more DPS than most druids are going to muster. I'd recommend something like +10% speed for 30 seconds stacking 1/2/3 times (based on points spend).
And that's just one example, there are a bunch of abilities where the numbers just seem way to low.
Anyway, nice work on season's herald, that one is really getting somewhere, but nature's warrior needs serious work.
Last edited by SerPounce; 04-30-2013 at 09:56 PM.
Druid nature's warrior need rework (as all peeps on that threat say)
->Tree adds 1 hp x point (that correct, cause we need be on melee to dish the dmg so we need good hp), but also add 0,5 postivie spell power (and maybe 0,5 cold)
->Alpha strike.. what a joke. its a cleave with limited uses per day... awsome... keep this a the "supreme cleave" version of the druid (with extra damage and low CD) or make it awsome powerfull if need to use wild empathy charges.
->In all the tree, the WORST problem of melee druid its not fixed. Druid need someform to upgrade the damage from claws. Actually its 1[1d10], that need some kind of improve (only form atm its splashing monk, that just wrong). At least we need some form to upgrade to 2[1d10] (at VERY minimun) but something like 2,5[1d12] will be a most balanced option.
1. No die steps as you mention
2. Insanely feat starved. They really need to take both shield mastery feats and all three natural fighting feats for their basic fighting style. With no bonus feats, and such an important capstone that's a huge price.
3. No realistic way of getting DCs of the animal attack spells high enough to matter in EE.
4. Arbitrarily locked out of one of the best abilities of the best Destiny (Dreadnaught, momentum swing)
This tree is just another nail in the coffin. I have one more sorc past life to do on my druid, and as much as I'd like to make some kind of hybrid, in all likelihood it will be back to an elemental form caster, maybe with monk levels for stunning fist. Not as cool as being a winter wolf, but it has the advantage of actually working in tough content.
The druid wolf companion needs more survivability at levels above 13ish.
It is more difficult to have good fort on the wolf than the iron defender, and the iron defender has better survivability at higher levels.
The ability to spend action points to increase the wolf companion's survivability at higher levels could be a good option.
The same could be true of the iron defender.
I just finished my 2nd druid life to 20.
My feedback after looking at the trees is that animal form is no longer viable. You will no longer be able to pick out the healing spell power you need, even as a pure druid, and multiclassing a few monk levels makes your heals bad to start with.
Wolf form, the most popular form, requires ice + healing spell power enhancements on live which are no longer possible to get at the same time as wolf abilities.
Bear form, the least popular form, requires healing + universal spell power, and doesn't self heal or stay alive well already due to a lack of mana procs.
Lacking spell power to self heal and stay alive, both forms are useless, and everyone will remain in caster form.
Druids also won't be able to take racial abilities, like elf AA + elf abilities, or dwarf tankyness + bear + healing, because they wouldn't be able to heal at the same time due to a lack of spell power.
A low dps healing hybrid class is becoming a low dps non-healing class, or a pure caster non-hybrid class.
Next patch, I'm just not going to be able to use animal form entirely...LD looking better now.
TLDR: Animal form needs spell power for healing and animal form spells, at the least.
Caster tree looks OP.
Can we get an enhancement for animal form that gives bonus physical damage based on health? This would fix both bear and wolf late game scaling. 20:1 or something?
Edit: I'm sure I could make a 17/x druid build self heal at cap with epic gear and healing amp, it just wouldn't work 1-20.
Last edited by Tilomere; 07-07-2013 at 05:39 PM.
Sorry for the Johnny come lately.
- The PrE fails to address the problems with melee druids. Namely, there is no way to achieve a Full BaB without resorting to magic items. BaB affects more than just the ability to hit something. It also affects attack speed and PRR. It seems like all the other abilities are balance around a druid having full BaB.
- It still does nothing to address the derpy implementation of Natural Fighting. 3 feats on a feat starved class is simply bad design.
Solution: Completely ditch the natural fighting feats. Have each core enhancement improve the BaB of the character by 1 and grant 2% doublestrike while in animal form.
Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
- Giving us the racial PrE’s we were promised, before rolling out DDOStore™ Enhancement Trees.
- Fixing physical defense for Rangers and Rogues. It’s ridiculous that you’re better off wearing Heavy Armor and ignoring your innate feats on these classes.
- Cannith Crafting.
- Update the named loot to put them on the same system.
- Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
- Fixing all challenges to give us decent XP and ingredient returns for the unreasonable time we have to spend in most of them.
So druid didn't get any significant changes.
Sad, but not surprised.
Gildus, Sabathiel, Einion, Yhvain
Other than that, I LOVE melee druid tree setup abilities and descriptions.
Awesome stuff! I can't wait to start testing all of the enhancements.
The one exception to the whole "loving it thing" is alpha strike. Maybe my opinion will change in testing, maybe not, but it seems like it's an awfully expensive enhancement to only be able to use it a few times between shrines. I think it should be a charge on thing like momentum swing is for dreadnought, where you have, say, a 1 minute cooldown, however certain ability uses (such as baiting bite, takedown, etc) have a small chance of resetting the cooldown.
Naturally there would need to be a balance struck between damage dealt with the attack and the probability of resetting it prematurely through the use of druid abilities.
Maybe something similar to my idea could be done. I don't like tying it to wild empathy. It doesn't make any sense to me.
This would fill the gap left in dreadnought, where most pure druid S&B melee builds won't have enough feats after maxing doublestrike to take cleave and great cleave, so can't use momentum swing. This would fit perfectly into that hole.
Can't wait to get to testing all of this stuff on Sunday. Unfortunately I promised saturday to my fiance with no gaming lol.
Edit: I'm running a capped pure druid wolf build.
Last edited by hermespan; 06-29-2013 at 04:31 AM.
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