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  1. #21
    Community Member ~Grumpycat's Avatar
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    My solution for non-casting, non-UMD builds is to make sure all stats are at least 11, get Silver Flame Favor and use silver flame potions.

  2. #22
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    Cure serious pots are not BYOH, even with huge healing amp, they're more used between fights or in dire straits.

    This leaves a few options for heroic levels:
    Enhanced crit potions from the store ~ Expensive but useable with good healing amp
    SF potions ~ Extremely good self healing
    Heal scrolls ~ Through half-elf cleric dilly OR UMD]

    For epic levels you have a few more options:
    Rejuv cocoon
    Healing spring
    Fast Healing

    If you're not worried about spending the money, the least gimped you'll be in trying to create a 20 fighter is the enhanced crit potions supplemented by SF potions.

    You can do SF potions supplemented by CSW pots, but you'll run into issues with spells like hold person and any CC/KD since your saves get hit -15 when you pop a potion and you can't truly sustain in a crown with CSWs so any dire amount of damage will instinctively pop a SF pot.

    Heal scrolls are very easy to get to a no-fail state with a cross class splash as early as level 12(bard/rogue/arti), but neigh impossible until probably the 20s without it. You can get 95% scrolls at (iirc)15 with cleric dilly, but in any case this route will be rough unless you're leveling concentration.
    Yes I admit having SF:UMD on him is a big sacrifice, but currently I am unable to get my stunning blow to levels that I want (I really can't get it above 60 reliably) so I don't use that specific feat.
    Pretty easy actually.

    18base+5tome+6levels+5primal+4tensers+8item+1excep tional+3insight+4enhancements+8surge+2 ship+2profane+2yugo= 68 / 2 = 34 - 5 = 29 str mod

    DC10+29str+15items+3kensai+6LD+4enhancements = 67 + (pastlives fighter)

    Even if you can't afford the 5 tome, most everything else is simplistic.

  3. #23
    Community Member Sogrin's Avatar
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    guess my fighter shouldnt both with BYOH runs then /sigh

    Horc already lvl 14
    dont have the money for store pots
    dont have the stats for SF pots
    Shortling (20 rogue) wither others leveling. "One Dwarf Army"
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobthesponge View Post
    well a clown getting violated by a rabid duck may be sillier, but not by much.

  4. #24
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    no one's mentioning the obvious.... fighters have tons of feats, go halfling and take the healing dragonmarks.
    no gear swaps, no scroll fails, no UMD needed, no splashing needed.

    on my fighter lives I went halfling, 12 fighter 6 ranger 2 rogue.
    evasion, ranger devotion helps the healing marks, halfling boosts your saves, most specifically reflex, and you also get manyshot for your troubles.

    I found the dragonmarks to be more than enough for self healing, and should be enough for keeping a pure fighter up in a party, perhaps with some pots as backup.
    and should you go with the splashed version, being a ranger / rogue you can also use cure wands or pick up umd if you feel like it.

  5. #25
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sogrin View Post
    guess my fighter shouldnt both with BYOH runs then /sigh

    Horc already lvl 14
    dont have the money for store pots
    dont have the stats for SF pots
    Yes, you're doing it all wrong. Even if you are successful in doing it wrong, you're still doing it wrong.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Yes, you're doing it all wrong. Even if you are successful in doing it wrong, you're still doing it wrong.
    What kind of nonsense is that? (I'm hoping sarcasm?) With the right gear, and careful playing... Neither SF or store pots are required for melee BYOH. Barby-Oh just dinged 17 doing BYOH with garbage gear and no SF or store pots.

    Heroic BYOH on a melee can be covered by:
    • Vampiric/Bodyfeeder weapons
    • CSW pots
    • Defensive oriented gear including good saves
    • Active combat using skills/motion/terrain to avoid damage

    The better the group, the less you need the last one. In most BB BYOH pug groups I join on Thelanis, things die so fast that you need sprint boost just to get to them before they are dead.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    My preferred way for a pure fighter is half-elf with cleric dilly (as getting UMD would require a lot of gear and work). This gives you 95% chance on heal scrolls, as well as many other useful scrolls with high to no-fail chances..
    I believe that is being taken away in the upcoming NGE...errr I mean enhancement pass.

  8. #28
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    My personal favorite BYOH fighter is a 12 cleric/6 ftr/2 monk.
    Evasion, full buffs, kensai1, radiant aura and burst, and all the wand/scroll divine goodness you could possibly ask for.
    Once you are into the LD epic destiny, you're doing pretty solid DPS with unlimited self healing for all intents and purposes. Add quicken for no-fail emergency heals and presto!

    This has been so much more fun to play than just a straight fighter, IMO. Plus, there is no upkeep cost and no need to farm the silver flame favor.
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  9. #29
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Ways to self-heal:

    Half-elf with cleric dilly
    Cure Serious Pots - low levels
    Silver Flame Pots - high levels

    Ways to avoid damage:

    Paralyzing weapons
    Radiance weapons (Blinded foes hit you less)
    Displacement clickables
    Blur items
    Ghostly items
    Smart aggro control
    Smart movement


    All above is for pure fighters...

    Splash a couple levels of rogue, and you get evasion and UMD, which can increase self-sufficiency a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  10. #30
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    I forgot halfling dragonmarks which is really silly of me since my fighter is a halfling with the healing dragonmarks.

    These are VERY effective in the 1-20 game... not so much in the epic game...

    But with epic destinies, there are all kinds of ways to heal yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  11. #31
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sogrin View Post
    guess my fighter shouldnt both with BYOH runs then /sigh

    Horc already lvl 14
    dont have the money for store pots
    dont have the stats for SF pots
    You can get items to raise your stats...

    There's a ring out there that gives +3 to INT, +3 to CHA, and +6 to posion and disease saves... My barbarian used it to get his stats high enough for Silver Flame potions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  12. #32
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Heroic BYOH on a melee can be covered by:
    • Vampiric/Bodyfeeder weapons
    • CSW pots
    • Defensive oriented gear including good saves
    • Active combat using skills/motion/terrain to avoid damage
    Yes, exactly... good list...
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  13. #33
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    Default Heal scrolls and/or silver flame pots oh, and gear for defenses and dps

    Unless you are a stalwart with very good defensive gear (and even so), you will mostly need at least heal scrolls when doing byoh high level elite quests with no healers or druids on the party (fighters have to meele and many times have to tank in the quests) . If you dont have big pots or heal scrolls just get over it and accept is not the party for you (if there is a cleric, fvs, bard or druid on that party and you think can be helpful on killing the mobs you can ask if can still join and they can heal you if you are not taking too much damage and are close to them)

    My advice on new fighters and barbs that cant go byoh is to take advantage of his strengths, which are mostly about having a very good sustained dps and some resistance when dealing with the enemies. (that means put your efforts on dps, hitpoints, saves and Prr), being able to kill fast is always a good way to help a party not only finishing faster but also reducing the incoming damage.

    And if you need heals, learn to play with a hireling (with some practise and gear you can easily handle most of heroic hards and even some elites when soloing, in a decent amount of time if you have a good dps. If partys dont allow hires just dont party with them if the quest is hard to do without heals and make your own group that allow hires or just solo it on normal or hard .

    Once you reach epic levels and unlock primal avatar destiny, you get the option (as a fighter) to twist rejuvenation coccoon, that with some heal amplification and devotion gear can be very good for self healing.
    Last edited by elcagador; 05-31-2013 at 10:50 PM. Reason: some corrections

  14. #34
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elcagador View Post
    Unless you are a stalwart with very good defensive gear (i guess), you will need at least heal scrolls when doing byoh high level elite quests with no healers or druids on the party (fighters have to meele and many times have to tank on the quests) .
    Very far from the truth, I played with a guy the other day that had a monk/fighter splash no scrolls or sf pots, he was able to keep himself up in necro 4 with vampirism wraps, healing curse from light monk, and I topped him off after kai tang in litany with a scroll. You don't need sd to have good defense just a plan for how you will accomplish it.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Very far from the truth, I played with a guy the other day that had a monk/fighter splash no scrolls or sf pots, he was able to keep himself up in necro 4 with vampirism wraps, healing curse from light monk, and I topped him off after kai tang in litany with a scroll. You don't need sd to have good defense just a plan for how you will accomplish it.
    Ok (doing some corrections) but he probably must have a very good gear for heal amp, saves and others that work with evasion from monk, also the knowledge and playing skills helps a lot (I said sd because we are talking here about fighters but you are involving monk, which is another class, but is also good to point that the monk and rogué splash can be very helpful with evasion for a better damage mitigation againts harmful spells, as long as you have a decent réflex save)

    I didn't mean that a kensai or a barbarian absolutely cant do Byoh elites without sf pots or heal scrolls (if they are very skilled and play with very care controlling the aggro, using lots of csw pots, dps and damage mitigation gear, they can do it, but that would be incredible boring and inefficient at high levels when they probably have 500+ hp and can easily take damage for over 200 hp on fights)
    Last edited by elcagador; 05-31-2013 at 10:47 PM.

  16. #36
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elcagador View Post
    ok but he probably must have a very good gear for heal amp, saves and others that work with evasion from monk, alss the knowledge and playing skills helps a lot (I said sd because we are tlaking here about fighters but you are involving mon, which is another class, but is also good to point that the monk and rogué splash can be very helpful with evasion for a better damage mitigation againts harmful spells)
    As an FYI to my previous post, the reason I brought it up is the guy was doing a fighter past life I believe.

  17. #37
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    What kind of nonsense is that? (I'm hoping sarcasm?)
    Ahem!







    Sarcasm...

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Ahem!
    Sarcasm...
    +1, well played.

  19. #39
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Good advice, though, on some equipment suggestions - especially the Vamprism weapons.

    I've got a lvl 21 fighter. I'm looking to maybe TR him soon as I barely run him at all. Not that it is about the whole BYOH issue, I'm just concentrating on my pally right now to get him into epic. What I will probably do is take some of these suggestions and target equipment that I'll need before I TR him.

    The damage avoidance issue, I think, needs to be covered more closely.

    The things that mitigate damage are:

    1) AC,
    2) PRR,
    3) Displacement / blur,
    4) Ghostly.
    5) Fortification,
    5) Weapon procs.

    Displacement / Blur and ghostly are pretty-much self-explanatory. They are also the easiest to bypass with True Seeing, and I belive there are a fair number of mobs that have True Seeing. Having both ghostly and blur is nice, but I believe they are useless when confronted with a mob that has True Seeing (correct me if I am wrong).

    Weapons Procs are subject to saves. That's a given.

    Fortification is straightforward: heavy fort is what you're shooting for, exceptional fort plus heavy fort is what you ideally want. You want to eliminate crits.

    That leaves us with AC and PRR. AC is the easiest to understand. PRR, however, is still a little fuzzy to me. It seems the only way anyone can boost PRR is to carry around a shield. Am I right or wrong on this one? If I'm right, it sorta kills THF, and makes low-DPS really the only route to go if you want a BYOH build that fairly viable.

    I made my pally (who has self-healing, so maybe it is a bad example) a Sword and Board melee, and he takes very little damage per encounter. It also seems to take forever to wipe out mobs, though having a special array of weapons helps a bit.

  20. #40
    Community Member Sogrin's Avatar
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    Definately lots of good info here. I'll be sure to take some of it in on my other chars and further lives.

    I've gotten my fighter to 21 (Gronnn Smasher on Cannith). a combitnation of decent play, and soloing with a hire (although there intelligence seems to be in the negatives sometimes)

    This is a first life toon, going to be playing around a bit in epics and farming some gear before starting the runs of TR's to get all my past lives before getting to my final warchanter build (Horc 16bard4righter)

    currently closing in on 600 HP and havent even got my 45HP GS belt crafted yet. nor any con tomes (only a +2 strength from hitting 1750 favor)

    on a further side note, momentum swing ftw.
    Last edited by Sogrin; 06-07-2013 at 05:33 PM.
    Shortling (20 rogue) wither others leveling. "One Dwarf Army"
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobthesponge View Post
    well a clown getting violated by a rabid duck may be sillier, but not by much.

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