Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 109
  1. #81
    Community Member Flavilandile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    France
    Posts
    3,908

    Default

    By the way, while we are gone to the tree ( and number thereof ) :

    Any news about more trees for the Cleric and getting of rid of the stupid Protection Tree ? ( or at least making it so it's not a clickathon... clerics have better things to do than keeping tracks of 20s stupid clickies )
    On G-Land : Flavilandile, Blacklock, Yaelle, Millishande, Larilandile, Gildalinde, Tenalafel, and many other...

  2. #82
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Staten Island, NY
    Posts
    12,890

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    Same with the 3 tree limit. The idea is to have a little more freedom than 1 per class like live, but still put people on the path of using three pre's to make their build. Now it is allowing people to use similar pre's for one class to help compensate for the weaknesses of the individual pre.
    That isn't more freedom.

    Live, there are restrictions on how I assemble my classes and PrEs, but then I've got a lot of freedom in how I spend my AP. I can, for instance, invest a little in trap monkeying, a little in UMD and self-healing, a little in utility stuff like Sprint Boost, and then the bulk of what I want assembling disparate abilities toward my ultimate goal, such as investing in Ninja Spy and Arcane Archer, along with all of the above. Yeah, I can't dip into both AA and Deepwood Stalker, but under the new system I would have to choose between any more specialization and all of the secondary stuff I have, because I would need to in only 3 trees, instead of what are essentially probably 6.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  3. #83
    Community Member Kza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    884

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    You're talking about two different things here.

    Personally, I think one tier 5 is probably enough. If I had to choose between being able to obtain tier 5 abilities in two trees, or being able to pick enhancements from more than three trees, I'd absolutely choose the latter.

    An ideal system, I think, would be to simply lift the 3 tree restriction (you really are fairly limited in what you can obtain), lower the bar to get into tier 5 abilities, then allow characters with 20 levels in a class to select from a second tier 5. This rewards both multiclassers and pure-classers. The multi-classers continue to be able to use enhancements from all of their classes without shooting themselves in the foot, while the pure characters get a reward for not multi-classing: the ability to further specialize in their class.
    I agree to this, perfect both for multis and pures. This adds lots to consider in character generation. DDO at its best.

  4. #84
    Community Member Deamus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Hellas
    Posts
    522

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We're quite willing to hear feedback on this. Right now we're requiring only 5 class levels in order to aid multiclassing and reward particular builds that may want anywhere from 1-5 levels of a class "splashed" in order to gain specific enhancements. There's still Core Enhancements that require up to class level 20 to reward pure class builds.
    Tier abilities as well core abilities should be linked with class level like on live. Only 18 lvl of the class should get the tier 5 abilities , lvl 12 3rd tier , 6 2 tier etc . Tier 5 abilities are more stronger than Core ones .

    The existing system on live as it is with the restrictions is good enough . Why to change it ? To break even more the balance between pures and multiclass ? Multiclass with the right combination but also with minimum tradeoff are way more powerful than pure builds.
    Last edited by Deamus; 04-18-2013 at 02:47 AM.
    One Monk To Gimp Them All
    Europe Devourer Beta Player
    Arise Founder
    Daemus, Daemons, Daemonicus Thelanis Server

  5. #85
    Community Member Entelech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,136

    Default

    There needs to either be a "General Class" tab for each class you have levels in, or three trees is too low a limit.

    For example, it's absurd that a Kensai fighter should have to lock in the Stalwart Defender tree just to get access to Item Defense, when anybody with a Fighter level could grab it before.

    Same thing for Monks and Healing Amp...or Rogues and Fast Sneaking.

    Although I do like the way you reorganized the Monk stances.

    Also, if you want to reward pure or mostly-pure builds, that "General Class" tab would be the place to do it, since "X levels in relevant class" and arrows could largely replace the "points spent in tree" tiering for those tabs. It would allow pure classes more freedom to cherrypick and bounce around within their PrE trees than deep multis would have, in exchange for the multiclasser's larger array of options.
    Give a man a fish, and he demands two more tomorrow.
    Teach a man to fish, and he'll leave to find somebody who'll just give him a fish.
    Beat him unconscious with the fish, and it's comedy.

  6. #86
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Staten Island, NY
    Posts
    12,890

    Default To reiterate my proposal more clearly

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We have put in a Character Level 12 requirement for Class Tier 5 abilities. (This is CHARACTER level. Not class level.)

    Other tiers remain unchanged (besides racial Tier 4 abilities, as previously noted).
    • tier 5 requires 30 points spent in tree (not a big fan of "in tree" still, but ignore for now
    • tier 5 requires character level 12
    • you are permitted access to only one tree's tier 5, normally
    • upon gaining level 20 in a single class, you are granted access to any tier 5s you meet the other requirements for, allowing single-classed characters to take tier 5 abilities in more than one tree
    • characters are not limited to 3 class trees, allowing multiclassed characters to select enhancements from up to 9 class trees, depending upon their class split

    The goals here are as follows:

    1. Multi-classed characters have access to all of the pieces of their class split(s), as they do in live, plus the added accessibility that comes from loosening class-based access to enhancements.
    2. Any character can get into a single tree's tier 5 abilities at character level 12th.
    3. Single-classed, heroically capped characters (lvl 20) receive a boon that allows them to use two of their class' tier 5 trees if they want them. This provides some incentive to stay pure, and balances against a lot of the weight being lumped on the "multi-classing is good" side of the scale.

    So, for example, an archer could go X Ranger/Y Monk/Z Fighter, pick up all of Deepwood Stalker, a little Arcane Archer, Ninja Spy, and Kensei, along with Ten Thousand Stars, or they could go pure Ranger 20 and pick up essentially all of both Deepwood Stalker and Arcane Archer, having access to the tier 5s of both trees.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  7. #87
    Community Member Deamus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Hellas
    Posts
    522

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    • tier 5 requires 30 points spent in tree (not a big fan of "in tree" still, but ignore for now
    • tier 5 requires character level 12
    • you are permitted access to only one tree's tier 5, normally
    • upon gaining level 20 in a single class, you are granted access to any tier 5s you meet the other requirements for, allowing single-classed characters to take tier 5 abilities in more than one tree
    • characters are not limited to 3 class trees, allowing multiclassed characters to select enhancements from up to 9 class trees, depending upon their class split

    The goals here are as follows:

    1. Multi-classed characters have access to all of the pieces of their class split(s), as they do in live, plus the added accessibility that comes from loosening class-based access to enhancements.
    2. Any character can get into a single tree's tier 5 abilities at character level 12th.
    3. Single-classed, heroically capped characters (lvl 20) receive a boon that allows them to use two of their class' tier 5 trees if they want them. This provides some incentive to stay pure, and balances against a lot of the weight being lumped on the "multi-classing is good" side of the scale.

    So, for example, an archer could go X Ranger/Y Monk/Z Fighter, pick up all of Deepwood Stalker, a little Arcane Archer, Ninja Spy, and Kensei, along with Ten Thousand Stars, or they could go pure Ranger 20 and pick up essentially all of both Deepwood Stalker and Arcane Archer, having access to the tier 5s of both trees.
    This is also a good suggestion . Tier 5 abilities on lvl 12 not on level 5.

    With the current proposal of the devs one can make an OP build.
    Really fast example without going into details and based on leaked info about shintao monk from here : http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...2&postcount=53

    Fast Thought Example.
    Ultimate Evasion DPS Tank Manyshot, The (put some pompous name to show off a bit) Cultist : :PPPPP

    12 Fighter Kensai or Stalward defender, 6 Monk Shintao ,2 Ranger. Get the fighter levels for the feats ,specialize in unarmed , invest some points in Kensai haste boosts , and other goodies etc or stalward defender if stackable. 6 Monk levels shintao ,get evasion , invest to tier 5 abilities with tanking and also break DR in some types. Finally 2 ranger levels for the feats for manyshot and some AP invested for ranged dps.

    This is a really fast example which was thought in 2 mins and not gone through detail. Completely broken and OP. It was created to show how could the current system proposed by devs be exploited and break the balance.

    PS: Class Level Restrictions should be made to avoid examples as above.
    Last edited by Deamus; 04-18-2013 at 09:07 AM. Reason: Typos. Also I found a name for it !!!:P
    One Monk To Gimp Them All
    Europe Devourer Beta Player
    Arise Founder
    Daemus, Daemons, Daemonicus Thelanis Server

  8. #88
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North American East Coast Interwebs
    Posts
    1,425

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeebaNeighba View Post
    I think he might mean prestiges unlocked by race, not the racial trees themselves.

    With racial prestige tier 5 and class prestige tier 5 locking each other out, that would nerf many non-ranger arcane archer builds.
    That is precisely where my idea came from. While Arcane Archer was the tree I intended to flag, it may apply to more down the road (Dwarven staltwart defender perhaps?).
    Cilon can be found on Orien.

  9. #89
    Community Member bhgiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    720

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We have put in a Character Level 12 requirement for Class Tier 5 abilities. (This is CHARACTER level. Not class level.)

    Other tiers remain unchanged (besides racial Tier 4 abilities, as previously noted).
    I'm ok with this. Being able to hit top tier should be reserved for later levels. Also loving the idea of only needing 30 points to take top tier. This potentially saves 10 points in that tree you can spend on another. I'll have to play with it though to see how effective is actually is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We are not working with the aliens to send messages that are picked up by your microwaved meatloaf dinner. At least I don't think so...
    Proud member of Tyrs Paladium

  10. #90
    Community Member I_Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    in the doghouse
    Posts
    240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I am not sure that I agree with the tier 5 core abilities can only be taken in one tree. I am of the opinion that a pure level 20 ranger should be able to get the core abilities from deepwood sniper and arcane archer. Why not reward pure builds a little it seems like multi-class's get the overall advantage so why not reward pure builds. The same with level 20 fighter that is kensai and stalwart or level 20 cleric that is healing and protection or pure level 20 artificer and those two core abilities.
    I agree. It would be great to give a pure class character a reason to be pure class, especially Clerics. As it is, there are far too few of them and this would help alleviate the wait for a "healer".

    Another quote: "Tier 5s locking each other out as a mechanic is perfect. It allows the devs to balance. Speaking of which, the specific concerns (eg: Aura shouldn't be tier 5) are easily addressed by simply moving them to tier 4 or even as a core ability. (Aura should DEFINITELY be the level 12 core ability.)"

    Totally agree with this as well. Having only one tier 5 is good for balance. The aura should move to 4 and/or a core ability available at level 12..
    Last edited by I_Bob; 04-18-2013 at 09:45 AM.

  11. #91
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2

    Default

    They are making it so you can only take a Tier 5 enhancements from one tree, it's not underpowering things. Even in the destinies you can't take top tier abilities from two trees. There are plenty of abilities in tier 4 and down that are handy, and I'm sure you can take the capstone, but you get only one capstone. It gives you something to look forward to the end of your class if you're not multiclassed, otherwise there would be no pure class builds, they would all be hybrid.

    As for Positive Energy Aura, it shouldn't be a tier 5 skill, and if it is, it should heal more than 7 HP every other second, because people take way more than that in damage at level 20, and I understand it gets modified, but even if you have 300%, it's still 21 HP.
    Last edited by dronakin; 04-18-2013 at 09:54 AM.

  12. #92
    Founder
    2015 DDO Players Council
    Lerincho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lubbock, Tx
    Posts
    7,349

    Default

    While I know most are complaining about the cost in tree, I can see the reasoning per prestige class to have this; however, for racial it is not logical. You continue to always be a halfling, or whatever race; but you can change your class. Racial enhancement tree should see TOTAL point spent, and prestige trees should see in tree spent. I know this will not be popular amongst the EE crowd; however, it is the solution that provides the most logic.

    Yes, I do know, using logic in a fantasy game is very ironic.
    The Great Gnome Conspiracy was here!

  13. #93
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    I love how people just ignore how much more awesome the ranger enhancement turned out, because their cleric lines are incomplete (they are, you can see the domain names when you select faith lines) and people don't want to expend AP to unlock AA on a h/elf.

    Artificer/Fighter, for me, was more or less the same. Sure, some oversight here and there, but no big boost or big nerf.
    What are you talking about? My exploiter-esque tempest ranger lost big on the things that made her fun. She picked up a little more melee DPS and damage mitigation and lost huge in flexibility (archery) and self healing. I honestly hated the changes, with formerly generic ranger abilities arbitrarily assigned to one PrE line or another. I'd need at least 2 ranger trees and a rogue and a monk tree just to get her to the same level of functionality she had before.

    You may think that's awesome. I personally thought it sucked. I dunno, maybe i just didn't play with it enough, but I hated how the changes turned out for her. I might as well reroll into a TWF fighter. And then realize i'm gimping myself and pick up cleave, so I can run around spamming cleave, gr. cleave, momentum swing, lay waste, that seems to be so popular these days.
    Last edited by Jorge_2070; 04-18-2013 at 11:01 AM.

  14. #94
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    219

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dronakin View Post
    They are making it so you can only take a Tier 5 enhancements from one tree, it's not underpowering things. Even in the destinies you can't take top tier abilities from two trees. There are plenty of abilities in tier 4 and down that are handy, and I'm sure you can take the capstone, but you get only one capstone. It gives you something to look forward to the end of your class if you're not multiclassed, otherwise there would be no pure class builds, they would all be hybrid.
    +1. "Choice" implies "consequence". Of course there should be "choice" in where to spend those 40 APs, and not a clearly superior branch everyone will take and then filler you end up picking because you have to, but wouldn't otherwise want in your build (not saying this is the case for every class).
    I see a lot of potential in a system that allows your toon to go bard 15/fighter 5 without turning it into a bard with a couple extra feats striving to make up for the missing 15 fighter levels with gear and ED's. Bard, kensai, or somewhere in between; the choice is yours. Where it reads "bard/fighter" it could have said 15fvs/5 ranger. I am pretty sure we will be soon seeing different alternatives to the popular juggernaut build with the same endgame capabilities and performance.
    Of course, there's the other side to this change, a bill that's to be paid by those people who went the extra mile and carefully planned deep level splits, feats, and enhancements to device efficient and creative builds, then spent years getting the gear to make it all work. My advice is to roll with the punch and begin planning how to make similar builds within the new system (easier said than done).
    Last edited by fredericko; 04-18-2013 at 11:50 AM.

  15. #95
    Hero nibel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    3,778

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge_2070 View Post
    What are you talking about? My exploiter-esque tempest ranger lost big on the things that made her fun.
    Keyword on red.

    I'm saying that live ranger enhancement lines (and ONLY ranger) got a very nice bump up compared to the lamannia version.

    Nothing with multiclass builds.

    Nothing with old combos.

    Just that pure rangers have better options than they have right now on live.

    Fighter and Artie stopped around the same levels (some buffs, some oversights, some stuff missing), and cleric is clearly incomplete (We might see more domains on the fvs test today).

    And yet, most people are crying over the loss of racial AA effectiveness.
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  16. #96
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,596

    Default

    Do I see it correctly that feedback given tomorrow will be lost in the vB-update-limbo?
    Toons on Orien: Meinir // Flodur // Twiddler // Thorkar // Impetor // Juliacantor // Minor all Soko Irrlicht
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We may or may not intentionally insert in red herrings, purple mackerels, or horses of different colors. Void where prohibited. Not available in all planes of existence.

  17. #97
    Lamannia Coordinator SqueakofDoom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    The End of the Universe - The view is great!
    Posts
    443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    Do I see it correctly that feedback given tomorrow will be lost in the vB-update-limbo?
    I have a solution for that! I will post an alternative (first thing in the morning - before the forums are brought down) so that you can still provide feedback while we are doing work on the Forums.

  18. #98
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    991

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakofDoom View Post
    I have a solution for that! I will post an alternative (first thing in the morning - before the forums are brought down) so that you can still provide feedback while we are doing work on the Forums.
    since I don't plan on being awake in that 2 hour period between the time you post it and they take the forums off-line... How am I gunna know?

  19. #99
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    2,803

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakofDoom View Post
    I have a solution for that! I will post an alternative (first thing in the morning - before the forums are brought down) so that you can still provide feedback while we are doing work on the Forums.
    Sorry, but thats a pretty major fail

  20. #100
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    gamertown usa
    Posts
    7,436

    Default

    Just submit bugs with the title of feedback, etc.

    Open my sig bug template for some pointers. Save it to notepad.

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload