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  1. #1
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    Default Why so much "babysitting" in these quests?

    It's not like me to rant, but a couple nights ago I was so mad I logged out and haven't been back other than to check the AH since.

    My light monk got to 18, which seemed great at the time. My plan is to bank 19 on my way to 20. What is ironic is that I got to 18 doing relatively few quests. I did more wilderness stuff instead, which I seem to enjoy a lot more. I'm closing in on 1500 each in Vale now, for example.

    This character, so far, is rather indestructable. She heals for 2hp each hit from Ivy Wraps + Jitz (80% offhand proc), even more healing with fists of light, has 9% dodge, 10% incorp, and 20% blur, and an AC around 50% miss chance (if that's accurate). In other words, most of the time I'm at full health by just running around smacking stuff and moving on. The only time I feel endangered in any way was recently when some enemies put a healing curse on me, whih stops me from healing until it wears off. It was annoying but I managed.

    So if I fail a quest at my level its not going to be because I died (yet). Now enter the "babysitting quest". These are those quests where I need to keep someone or something from getting killed. WHY do we need so many quests like this?! When I hit 18 I figured it was time for Inspired Quarter. So I went there and fought the multi-armed demon lady (which was admitedly hard, but I did it). And then I went to that guy on the boat to do that quest. Its the one with pirates boarding the ship. Again, I'm trying to run solo with no hirelings (a big step for me btw), so I failed the first time because the captain died in the battle. LAME. So I bring a Cleric the second time, and we win that second attempt. Then I want to start the "dreams" chain, and in the very first one I have to protect my mind/soul/will/whatever. These enemies are stinking annoying. I can't stun them (except the spiders), and I can't QP them either, so each fight takes forever. I get to the point where the guy summons three bosses at once (I have no hireling), and I'm doing JUST FINE surviving against 3 red names, but they destroy my will or whatever and I fail the quest. LAME. So now I can't complete this chain of quests because of this?

    So for a change of pace I go back to Vale just to pound on stuff, and I choose to do the quest where you can't kil any spiders. Not a problem until, you guessed it, I need to protect the spider queen during the assault. And you guessed it, I'm at full health and she dies. In fact she gets killed not by the melee enemies, but by these ogres up on a ledge that I cannot jump to that keep shooting her. What am I supposed to do to stop that?

    Anyway, that's the point where I logged out and haven't played since. Is the solo melee character pretty much forced to take a divine hireling on these types of quests? And if I had, would it have made any difference?

    Thanks for your help.

  2. #2
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    As far as I know, the protection quests are not really enjoyed by anyone. Some of them are worse than others. Protecting the queen in Let Sleeping Dust Lie is not one I've noticed as one of the more difficult ones. I don't know if she's ever needed a heal when I've run that, but if you are soloing and having to beat down each mob individually, I can see where it would take enough time to put the queen in danger.

    If you buy a cleric hireling, you can have the hireling protect the queen (or whomever requires protection in a specific quest) and that usually works. The cleric will often fail to heal you if it is assigned to protect someone else, but from what it sounds like you don't need the healing anyway.

    Regarding the curse, go to the Marketplace or Feather Fall's in House J and buy some Remove Curse pots so you don't have to wait for it wear off on its own.

    If you are talking about Mummy Rot, drink a Remove Curse pot and then a Remove Disease pot and it will be gone.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    also on a monk/fvs/air sorc

    you can easily make it up there where the ogres are

    use your wings/air dance thinggie

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  4. #4
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    If you are going to solo a "protect the NPC" quest, you cant heal the NPC than bring a hire. Its annoying, but its all you can do.

  5. #5
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Protect quests are probably hated by 95% of the community. Here's the problem. If they're done well, you'll never notice it, it's never a factor and it might as well not be there (like the manufactory or high road protect quests) . If it's done horribly, you get stressed out, hate the quest and curse obscenities at the person who thought it was a good idea to put it in the game. Really, it's lose/lose for the designers, but they keep doing it to make the 5% happy I suppose.

    Inspired Quarter has 3 protect quests if I remember correctly. This is just silly to have 3 of them in one pack. It should be 1 at most and even then I think it's pushing it. Vale has 2 protect quests (3 if you count hound I suppose) and occasionally even years after it's been released you still hear people get frustrated about losing Sleeping Dust in the end room, not because you killed too many spiders, but because some ogre up on the ledge that you somehow missed, managed to kill off the queen. I don't even bother with the Sharn series sometimes because I hate the Binders that much. Again, 2 protect quests in one pack. Yes, it's extremely lame.
    Last edited by redspecter23; 04-15-2013 at 12:39 PM.
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  6. #6
    Community Member visibleman's Avatar
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    DnD, whatever the form, is a team game. If you are going to solo all the time, you might as well go play Neverwinter Nights or Skyrim or some other offline game.
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  7. #7
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visibleman View Post
    DnD, whatever the form, is a team game. If you are going to solo all the time, you might as well go play Neverwinter Nights or Skyrim or some other offline game.
    The OP is free to enjoy the game solo if he wants to. His beef is with protect quests, not soloability in general.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Kilbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    The OP is free to enjoy the game solo if he wants to. His beef is with protect quests, not soloability in general.
    Yes, yes, he's free to play however he likes. He can play as a Horc Wizard who dump-statted intelligence for all I care. But he's also responsible for suffering the consequences of his choices. The game should not have to accommodate every single glorified special interest group that comes along. Guard Quests work best with a full group. Ignore this simple fact at your own peril.

  9. #9
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilbar View Post
    Yes, yes, he's free to play however he likes. He can play as a Horc Wizard who dump-statted intelligence for all I care. But he's also responsible for suffering the consequences of his choices. The game should not have to accommodate the majority of the players. Guard Quests work best with a full group. Ignore this simple fact at your own peril.
    Fixed for you in red. I can't remember ever being in a group that said "Wow, did you see how close that NPC came to dying!! Let's do that AGAIN!!!!".

    Ever. Not once.

    "Babysitting" should be an optional mechanic only.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Because in DDO, every quest is not just a DPS race. Other types of objectives make it so the game is not just about building a character which has better DPS and mitigation than the stuff you fight, then run forward and swing = win.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  11. #11
    Community Member Bogenbroom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilbar View Post
    Yes, yes, he's free to play however he likes. He can play as a Horc Wizard who dump-statted intelligence for all I care. But he's also responsible for suffering the consequences of his choices. The game should not have to accommodate every single glorified special interest group that comes along. Guard Quests work best with a full group. Ignore this simple fact at your own peril.
    I agree with the basic sentiment of this, however I do generally have issue with using those sorts of quests as requirements in quest lines.

    I don't mind the Captain one in the least, because it isn't required for anything, except optional loot from Mindsunder, but it doesn't stop game progression. I suppose I could have argument with Finding the Path, but that one is, IMO, the easiest protection quest out there. So much so that I often forget it is a protection quest. The Marilith one is a one off, so no big there either.

    However, Binders and Hold for Reinforcements both roadblock chains and those are the ones that bug me... only for that reason.
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  12. #12
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phidius View Post
    "Babysitting" should be an optional mechanic only.
    It is. You have the option to run the quest or not to run it.

    Op, you would have loved the Baudry set back in the day. *chuckles* One could barely solo part 2, honestly, let alone part 1. (if you ran it enough, you learned how, so it was deff doable, but you were time pressed.)

  13. #13
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Because in DDO, every quest is not just a DPS race. Other types of objectives make it so the game is not just about building a character which has better DPS and mitigation than the stuff you fight, then run forward and swing = win.
    I'll agree that variety in quests is a great goal for any designer to achieve. I will disagree that any sort of protect/fail quest falls under the category of enjoyable option compared to dps smackdown.

    This is my opinion of course, but protect/fail quests provide such minimal fun factor compared to any other sort of quest that it's ridiculous to even consider adding them to a game without some amazing game mechanics (CitW failed at this for quite some time and took dev resources to actually get it working) or an extremely good lore reason to do so and I would certainly never consider 3 in one pack to be a wise decision... ever. I'd rather an entire quest based around pvp (optional quest of course) than another protect/fail quest and that's from someone on the majority side of how players feel about pvp in general.

    There is a near infinite amount of unexplored design space to make quests interesting, yet time and time again, the devs go back to the protection well and fill another bucket. As I mentioned earlier, the only time it's tolerable is when it's not even a factor at all and therefore might as well be removed. Even the high road "protect" quest where the fool can never die still ends up being annoying as you constantly have to go back and get him to keep him on track. Same deal in the manufactury.
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  14. #14
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    In no particular order:

    1. Nobody but total masochists enjoys the escort / "babysitting" quests - nobody. Welcome to the club. For me the worst of the lot is Hold for Reinforcements, especially on Elite at level. But it's not like the rest are a walk in the park, either, unless maybe we're talking about Central Park back in the `70s and the muggers have broadswords.
    2. Some quests are geared towards groups more than others; either because you have to be in multiple places at once or you have to complete multiple objectives at once or whatever. The protection quests / Challenges are like that, because typically you want at least one character defending your target(s) while the others go out and kill mobs. As others have said, you may want to bring along a healer hireling you can "park" on your target for those quests; though bear in mind dungeon scaling applies to hirelings (albeit by a lower factor than PCs).
    3. At higher levels, casters typically have an easier time soloing than melees, because they can usually pump out higher burst DPS and (in some cases) instakills than melees can. They've also got AoE CC spells (Web, Cometfall, Earthquake, etc.) which melees can't replicate. The drawback, of course, is what to do if you run out of SPs...
    4. Next time you level, consider redoing your enhs to add Void Strike IV if you can; it's expensive AP-wise, but a free instakill on 5% of void atks (which AFAIK works on everything except rednames) is nice.

  15. #15
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Protect/Fail Quests are very few in the grand scheme of all the DDO quests.

    They can be frustrating for people, but it has it's place in a game designed around a game that was TEAM focused and strategy focused.

    One reason many don't like this mechanic is that they feel they have little control on the ability to succeed because of the actions of AI.

    Some of the most hated quests with this mechanic are in the Eastern Excavation with Coyle (2 Quests) [Level 9-10], The Faithful Departed [Level 8] and Let Sleeping Dust Lie [Level 16]. Mostly because you have a chance to fail even in the last moments of the quest.

    Now Coyle has been made easier to deal with in the 3rd quest as they have added a knock-out option, before that he would run all over and contributing to his loss of HP by drawing as many attacks as he could wave after wave. We also gained the ability to heal him.

    The Faithful Departed went from not letting any Mummy's die to can't let 4 die.

    Sleeping Dust is more a matter of using a scalpel instead of a chain saw, unless that chain saw is made entirely of Acid in which case your good to go. This is one of the quests that actually discourages splash damage so those dependent on arc hitting can become crippled. S&B actually has an advantage, both in keeping focus on the right foe as well as helping reduce incoming damage from that which you cannot kill. As for the Ogres in the Queen fight. If the jump is not an option, ranged weapon (throwing or even a bow) you may not be good a using it but you can still kill stuff with it. Another thing to think about is moving the queen outside of the room. Do this by drawing the down on the ground agro outside either through intim or hate generation. By keeping her outside the room you will also draw the ground agro to you outside the room meaning you can also avoid range damage you cannot reach without ranged combat.

    Everyone is going to find quests that are not fun to run. Not everyone in fact I'm sure there are more than 5% of the DDO population that like protect quests. I know for me it is just not fun to run suicidal protect quests. The AI needs some self preservation ingrained in its thinking.

  16. #16
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    IMO, ALL characters should have melee AND ranged weapons.


    That said, it would certainly help if Turbine would fixed ranged combat for everyone. (everyone except Artifcers anyway.)
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  17. #17
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phidius View Post
    "Babysitting" should be an optional mechanic only.
    It is. You have the option to run the quest or not to run it.
    ...
    No, I really meant "optional mechanic", not "optional quest/chain".
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  18. #18
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    I think the biggest issue with the "protect" quests (both here AND LOTRO, btw) is the still extremely limited AI the NPCs have.

    Instead of ducking away and staying safe, they charge right into the most danger they can find. At least if they would hang back or stay behind the character that's supposed to be protecting them instead of running headlong towards who-knows-what/where....
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  19. #19
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
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    In the past there was a way of having the hireling follow an NPC around healing them when they needed it. I've done it before with a fair measure of success.

    However, I've tried that a few times recently. The mechanic doesn't seem to work anymore. There is an IQ quest where the last fight you face 4 or 5 bosses and a bunch of spectres. I can sit there and take aggro and kill stuff off, but the hireling seems to no longer heal the NPC any more. Drives me absolutely nuts. So I wipe everything out, and the guy I need to protect dies anyways.
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  20. #20
    Community Member catmamor's Avatar
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    This thread is kind of making me chuckle - these babysitting quests are exactly what it's like when you are in a group and they want you to heal bot.

    Personally, I don't mind them. I solo and I always have a cleric, rogue, sorc etc in my folder so I can have whichever is going to be the most useful. I put a cleric on protect on the NPC and occasionally take a look to make sure it's doing it's job, then I run around and kill stuff. I occasionally have to tell the hire to heal when i am on my fvs or druid and want to save sp for my heals but generally it is a pretty sound system.

    Soloing is my preferred playstyle at present, having been burned a few times in a group and being less than impressed, I play for enjoyment and not to get stressed. Playing an online game means you get to chat and means you get new content, updates and an almost limitless arena.

    I suspect that almost half of the DDO players are soloers. It doesn't mean we are no good or antisocial or that we shouldn't play online.

    The protect quests are not going to suit everybody, they require patience and if you are used to zerging then they are not going to leave you with a warm 'I saved these guys' feeling. You may need to do them for a quest chain but if you are only having to suffer them for a short time then get a cleric hire on protect NPC and do your thing. The mobs on the ledge? Do you have ranged weapons, a bow or can you cast? If no then get a sorc hire or group with someone who can take them out.

    It's all about planning what you need before you go throwing yourself in head first. For me, that's one of the best things about this game - it requires a certain amount of intelligence and logic.

    *EDIT - i understand the frustration at not being able to finish a quest chain, I was on one in Deneith for the Silver Flame and had to get to a ledge using pipes and jets - I hate platform games like that, and when I say hate, I mean HATE - I just cannot do it when there is an air jet pushing me off the pesky ledge - there are actually 2 quest chains that I can't finish (so far). Each to their own eh?
    Last edited by catmamor; 04-15-2013 at 04:52 PM.


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