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Thread: A Complaint

  1. #1
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Default A Complaint

    I entered the King's Forest today and my client crashed. Fix it Turbine, that is all.

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    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    You know, if you bug report it, the chances for the QA to read it is much higher than a random forum post.
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    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    You know, if you bug report it, the chances for the QA to read it is much higher than a random forum post.
    What makes you think I didn't bug report it? This is a straight up complaint about a bug that's been known about for years. Fix it Turbine.

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    Not to mention Turbine devs would require a wee bit more information than just saying you crashed when entering King's Forest. Hundreds of people across the various servers enter King's Forest without a problem every day...so what makes you think that this is something TURBINE can fix and not YOU?

    Bug report it, and provide comprehensive details about your system and circumstances in the report. Do you crash EVERY time you enter King's Forest? Only the first time? Only on alternate Fridays when the moon is at 1/4 past full and a flock of sheep is passing your house? Give them details and it's a *LOT* more likely that crashing problems that you and a small percentage of the players encounter might be addressed.

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    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dterror View Post
    Not to mention Turbine devs would require a wee bit more information than just saying you crashed when entering King's Forest. Hundreds of people across the various servers enter King's Forest without a problem every day...so what makes you think that this is something TURBINE can fix and not YOU?

    Bug report it, and provide comprehensive details about your system and circumstances in the report. Do you crash EVERY time you enter King's Forest? Only the first time? Only on alternate Fridays when the moon is at 1/4 past full and a flock of sheep is passing your house? Give them details and it's a *LOT* more likely that crashing problems that you and a small percentage of the players encounter might be addressed.
    Did you read any of the posts in this thread? You must have missed:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    This is a straight up complaint about a bug that's been known about for years. Fix it Turbine.
    What do you think about that?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Did you read any of the posts in this thread? You must have missed:



    What do you think about that?

    I think you posted your reply to the previous response while I was in the process of composing my reply to your OP. It certainly wasn't there when I hit reply to thread, so your snark misses the mark.

    Your issue is still more likely one that YOU and anyone else having crash on zone issues needs to fix yourselves considering the vast bulk of the player population does NOT experience the issue consistently.

  7. #7
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dterror View Post
    Your issue is still more likely one that YOU and anyone else having crash on zone issues needs to fix yourselves considering the vast bulk of the player population does NOT experience the issue consistently.
    Nope this is an issue that Turbine has known about for some time, yet chooses to do nothing about. By the way, why have you come into this thread with the attitude that whatever the problem is, it's probably the poster and not Turbine at fault? I am curious to get to the bottom of this common mentality on forums. I think I have a slight clue as to what it might be, but am open to further enlightenment.

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    Community Member Phemt81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dterror View Post
    I think you posted your reply to the previous response while I was in the process of composing my reply to your OP. It certainly wasn't there when I hit reply to thread, so your snark misses the mark.

    Your issue is still more likely one that YOU and anyone else having crash on zone issues needs to fix yourselves considering the vast bulk of the player population does NOT experience the issue consistently.
    Stop trolling people using their personal free time to fill bug reports to improve the game for ALL OF US.

    Stop NOW. Period.
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    Community Member GreenGurgler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Nope this is an issue that Turbine has known about for some time, yet chooses to do nothing about. By the way, why have you come into this thread with the attitude that whatever the problem is, it's probably the poster and not Turbine at fault? I am curious to get to the bottom of this common mentality on forums. I think I have a slight clue as to what it might be, but am open to further enlightenment.
    Perhaps it is BOTH parties? And perhaps Turbine has the numbers on how many people it is happening too and have determined that the number is too small to warrant dev time? IT is possible.

    I almost never, ever have crashes on load screens but I know others who do on certain maps. One particular buddy of mine would crash 80% percent of the time when zoning into certain areas. So one would assume that the problem was all Turbines right?

    Except, three weeks ago, he rebuilt himself a nice shiny new PC and guess what... he no longer crashes. Ever. Period. Turbine changes nothing and the problem went away.

    Soo..... that would imply that the problem was on his end.

    Or we could go a little further and guess that maybe it was both. Maybe the code is touchy with only certain hardware/software configurations but not others. If this were the case, Turbine may already know what variables trigger the behavior but not how to correct it (perhaps the problem lies with the driver developer?). Theoretically, what if the problem was only plaguing NVIDIA users and not ATI users. Does that mean its Turbines fault for not finding a fix between there software and NVIDIA's hardware and driver? Or is the problem entirely NVIDIA's for having not addressed this in a driver update?

    Does one expect them to spend endless amount of resources to hunt down every single possible conflict that may be going on no matter how vague or insignificant it is? Should they have to support every piece of hardware no matter how old or brand spanking new? It would seem to make sense that there is a sweet spot for them on how important something is vs the resource cost to correct it. This goes on every day in business and governments around the world.

    All I'm saying is while it may be something they potentially could fix (or maybe not), it may just as likely (or more so IMHO) that the problem lies on the users side with hardware or software. Not saying your hardware or software is bad per se, but that what ever magical mix of H/S you have may not play nice with Turbines code. Whos fault is that?

    Just saying.

    Attacking other people who dont agree with you is pointless.
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    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGurgler View Post
    Attacking other people who dont agree with you is pointless.
    Noone is being attacked in this thread, so no need for the semantics of hysteria yet. The zone crash bug is well documented. Any argument based on using hardware specifications as a work around for a possible memory leak is fundamentally flawed. This bug happens to people who meet the required hardware specifications to play DDO. I'm here to complain that nothing seems to have been done to address this issue, as it still occurs regularly. Everyone who has been around long enough to know the track record, is sick to death of this, so fix it Turbine.

    Edit: Just stepped into King's Forest again.. CLIENT CRASH!
    Last edited by Nitesco; 04-13-2013 at 03:15 PM.

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    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Thus far, I personally have crashed in: Menechtarum, Gianthold, Orchard of the Macabre, Red Fens, and very rarely, The Subterran.

    Never ONCE I crashed on King's Forest. I see a lot of slowdowns when I'm transitioning in the wilderness, but no crash. So, I am a bit skeptical that this is a wide issue as you say.
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    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarthak View Post
    yes cause king's forest has been around for year's
    This bug has to do with entering multiple wilderness areas in fairly quick succession or entering one after a character switch.

    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Thus far, I personally have crashed in: Menechtarum, Gianthold, Orchard of the Macabre, Red Fens, and very rarely, The Subterran.

    Never ONCE I crashed on King's Forest. I see a lot of slowdowns when I'm transitioning in the wilderness, but no crash. So, I am a bit skeptical that this is a wide issue as you say.
    For me and most others who complain about it, Menechtaurun and Red Fens are the most common culprits. Kings Forest is also a large complex area, so the pattern seems to be holding.
    Last edited by Nitesco; 04-13-2013 at 04:08 PM.

  13. #13
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Noone is being attacked in this thread, so no need for the semantics of hysteria yet. The zone crash bug is well documented. Any argument based on using hardware specifications as a work around for a possible memory leak is fundamentally flawed. This bug happens to people who meet the required hardware specifications to play DDO. I'm here to complain that nothing seems to have been done to address this issue, as it still occurs regularly. Everyone who has been around long enough to know the track record, is sick to death of this, so fix it Turbine.

    Edit: Just stepped into King's Forest again.. CLIENT CRASH!
    You realize that the fix will be them to just bump up the required hardware reqs right? You know that's all that will ever happen.

  14. #14
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    I entered the King's Forest today and my client crashed. Fix it Turbine, that is all.
    I can't get it to repro. What are your steps? What is your system specs? What server?

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    Community Member GreenGurgler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Noone is being attacked in this thread, so no need for the semantics of hysteria yet.
    LOL..... you most certainly have been dismissive and suspicious of ulterior motives from anyone who has not bought the entirety of your premise. But I bet you will dismiss this as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    The zone crash bug is well documented.
    True, I do not disagree. But the fact that it has been well documented is irrelevant to the priority it has been given or how widespread it is. Some people experience it everytime in specific circumstances. Many also never experience it. So its existence HAS been documented. So have many other long standing bugs. . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Any argument based on using hardware specifications as a work around for a possible memory leak is fundamentally flawed. This bug happens to people who meet the required hardware specifications to play DDO.
    How so? Why is it a flawed argument? It most certainly IS a valid argument.

    How would you explain the example I stated of my buddy who had the exact same problems you do but then it all went away when he rebuilt using newer hardware? You cannot dismiss this evidence unless you CHOOSE to ignore it. Did Turbine see he had new hardware and fix this bug for him alone?

    Secondly, while there is a list of required hardware specifications to run the game, the list is a summary of the technologies only. It is not a list of required hardware. For example, the Radeon HD5850 is a technology yet there are a dozen different hardware manufacturers who make six different flavors/versions of this same hardware. All have minor or major hardware and software tweaks. Also, while two people might have the same card, they may be using the hardware differently (one is OC'd, one isn't, one uses WinXP, one uses Win7, etc...). All these variables will mix together to cause possibly subtle interactions with Turbines code.

    All I am saying is you cannot logically say an argument based on using hardware specifications as a work around is fundamentally flawed unless you choose to eliminate it from the discussion because you don't like what it implies. You are selectively choosing your variables.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    I'm here to complain that nothing seems to have been done to address this issue, as it still occurs regularly.
    Fair enough. But the truth is you have no way of knowing if they have been working on trying to fix it or not, do you? Perhaps they have one man dedicated solely to this task every day but he has been unable to solve it. You have no way of knowing. You are merely stating your opinion to try and bolster your preconceived theory of what is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Everyone who has been around long enough to know the track record, is sick to death of this, so fix it Turbine.
    Lol... Everyone? I have been around long enough (since March 2006) and I know their track record. I am no fanboi; feel free to look at all my past posts as I have been plenty critical of Turbine over the years.
    I am not sick of it. I would even go so far as to guess that the only people sick of this not being fixed are the ones it happens to. The ones it does not affect really couldn't care less.

    But you will dismiss all I have said above because it does not agree with your (flawed IMHO) premise of what is wrong and why it has not been fixed.

    But please, answer only one thing: How would you explain the example I stated of my buddy who had the exact same problems you do but then it all went away when he rebuilt using newer hardware?
    Last edited by GreenGurgler; 04-13-2013 at 04:29 PM.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    I can't get it to repro. What are your steps? What is your system specs? What server?
    This has already been covered in great detail here on the forums. I don't have the time or inclination to go over it again. I don't think there's anything of further relevance that I can add to what is already known. Google search 'DDO memory leak' or 'DDO zone crash' if you're really interested in reviewing the literature and attempting to reproduce this bug for your own report.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGurgler View Post
    LOL..... you most certainly have been dismissive and suspicious of ulterior motives from anyone who has not bought the entirety of your premise. But I bet you will dismiss this as well.
    The internet is full of bored trolls, let's not pretend otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGurgler View Post
    True, I do not disagree. But the fact that it has been well documented is irrelevant to the priority it has been given or how widespread it is. Some people experience it everytime in specific circumstances. Many also never experience it. So its existence HAS been documented. So have many other long standing bugs. . . .
    Which also never got fixed, notice a pattern yet?


    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGurgler View Post
    How so? Why is it a flawed argument? It most certainly IS a valid argument.
    Because:

    A. Better hardware may well indeed mitigate the regularity of occurence of the bug.
    B. Better hardware may cover the extra resources consumed by the bug, leading to crashes in worse hardware.
    C. The bug has been experienced by people running machines that meet the hardware specifications required to run DDO.

    None of this changes the fact that the bug exists and is an issue for people who have met every system requirement. If you want to argue about the technical aspects in detail, there are plenty of technical experts on these forums who would be more than happy to give you advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGurgler View Post
    How would you explain the example I stated of my buddy who had the exact same problems you do but then it all went away when he rebuilt using newer hardware? You cannot dismiss this evidence unless you CHOOSE to ignore it. Did Turbine see he had new hardware and fix this bug for him alone?
    Possibilities:

    A. He has enough extra resources to handle the memory leak without crashing.
    B. He hasn't encountered it yet
    C. You're lying

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGurgler View Post
    Secondly, while there is a list of required hardware specifications to run the game, the list is a summary of the technologies only. It is not a list of required hardware. For example, the Radeon HD5850 is a technology yet there are a dozen different hardware manufacturers who make six different flavors/versions of this same hardware. All have minor or major hardware and software tweaks. Also, while two people might have the same card, they may be using the hardware differently (one is OC'd, one isn't, one uses WinXP, one uses Win7, etc...). All these variables will mix together to cause possibly subtle interactions with Turbines code.
    Suffice to say, my machine and those of other people who I know have also experienced this bug, are all running different hardware. Besides, I've already stated multiple times how well documented this is. Go and do a search of the forums before dismissing my claims. If you still think it's everyone's hardware setup after that, then there is nothing further I can say. What I can say though, as an empirical fact, is that this bug exists and I am well within my rights to make a complaint about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGurgler View Post
    All I am saying is you cannot logically say an argument based on using hardware specifications as a work around is fundamentally flawed unless you choose to eliminate it from the discussion because you don't like what it implies. You are selectively choosing your variables.
    Does what I already posted cover this, or do I need to go into even more painful detail as to why you are wrong?


    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGurgler View Post
    Fair enough. But the truth is you have no way of knowing if they have been working on trying to fix it or not, do you? Perhaps they have one man dedicated solely to this task every day but he has been unable to solve it. You have no way of knowing. You are merely stating your opinion to try and bolster your preconceived theory of what is wrong.
    That's correct, I'm stating my opinion on what is wrong. What isn't my opinion is that this bug is well documented and has been experienced by many people. It has also been in the same bugged state for years. Is there anything else we need to cover?


    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGurgler View Post
    Lol... Everyone? I have been around long enough (since March 2006) and I know their track record. I am no fanboi; feel free to look at all my past posts as I have been plenty critical of Turbine over the years.
    I am not sick of it. I would even go so far as to guess that the only people sick of this not being fixed are the ones it happens to. The ones it does not affect really couldn't care less.
    Just because you are not experiencing a bug, does not mean that the bug does not exist. What you have posted is a clear logical fallacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGurgler View Post
    But you will dismiss all I have said above because it does not agree with your (flawed IMHO) premise of what is wrong and why it has not been fixed.
    If there are flaws, you haven't pointed any out.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGurgler View Post
    But please, answer only one thing: How would you explain the example I stated of my buddy who had the exact same problems you do but then it all went away when he rebuilt using newer hardware?
    Already did a few quotes ago. It's like having a machine that's meant to run at a certain temperature. Yet a susbstantial proportion of people are finding their machines are overheating. Some of them complain to the manufacturer about the apparent defect. Others who notice the complaint dismiss them by reason that because they run their machine in a coldroom, they aren't having any problems, therefore there is no problem and they should stop complaining.

    Do you see the logical flaws inherent in your argument?

    Edit: Stepped into King's Forest again, 3rd client crash in a row.
    Last edited by Nitesco; 04-13-2013 at 05:29 PM.

  17. #17
    Community Member Phemt81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGurgler View Post
    Not saying your hardware or software is bad per se, but that what ever magical mix of H/S you have may not play nice with Turbines code. Whos fault is that?

    Attacking other people who dont agree with you is pointless.
    If we wanna build and sell car engines we should care which cars are gonna use them before, should we?

    No one is attacking people, i am just annoyed by people trolling forum threads reporting bugs or game issues. Nothing personal. For me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We absolutely planned for Fighter to still have Haste Boost. It's absolutely a bug. Any similar issues that look "wrong" to any player should be bugged.
    Developers should fix this

  18. #18
    Community Member Azara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    What makes you think I didn't bug report it? This is a straight up complaint about a bug that's been known about for years. Fix it Turbine.
    Okay, I've been known to sling my fair share of mud in Turbine's face, BUT how EXACTLY can it be a bug that has been known of for "years" when the expansion pack itself is not even a year old yet?

    At least when I sling mud, I can back it up with times, dates, error messages, Turbine rep names and screen captures. So unless you have developed the ability to warp time and see into the future to a time where the content IS years old and is still not fixed, my suggestion would be to NICELY ask a Dev (Cordovan, Tolero and SqueakOfDoom are usually on pretty regularly and answer private messages pretty promptly) to look into the issue.

  19. #19
    Community Member gerardIII's Avatar
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    Big software = memory leaks.

  20. #20
    Community Member easyaction's Avatar
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    I entered the Kings Forest today and my client didn't crash. Way to fix it turbine, that is all.

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