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Thread: A Complaint

  1. #21
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    i've never crashed in kings forest. I know a while ago i used to crash in sands but its been a long time since that has happened. my computer is not top of the line. maybe your system just cant handle it. i dunno know. i know the issue does happen for a ton of people but its not always turbines fault either. i know people who have crappy computers or horrible internet.

  2. #22
    Community Member Sweyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    I entered the King's Forest today and my client crashed. Fix it Turbine, that is all.

    Last edited by Sweyn; 04-13-2013 at 09:50 PM.
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  3. #23
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azara View Post
    Okay, I've been known to sling my fair share of mud in Turbine's face, BUT how EXACTLY can it be a bug that has been known of for "years" when the expansion pack itself is not even a year old yet?

    At least when I sling mud, I can back it up with times, dates, error messages, Turbine rep names and screen captures. So unless you have developed the ability to warp time and see into the future to a time where the content IS years old and is still not fixed, my suggestion would be to NICELY ask a Dev (Cordovan, Tolero and SqueakOfDoom are usually on pretty regularly and answer private messages pretty promptly) to look into the issue.
    So by your logic, just because it was called an 'expansion', even though it uses the same game engine and is for all intents and purposes the same as any other area in the game, it can't be the memory leak/zone crash bug and must instead be on my end?

    Quote Originally Posted by easyaction View Post
    I entered the Kings Forest today and my client didn't crash. Way to fix it turbine, that is all.
    So because you haven't experienced the bug on your system, which may be orders of magniture more capable of handling the memory leak than the spefications required to run DDO as published by Turbine, my complaint is irrelevant and should be dismissed?
    Last edited by Nitesco; 04-13-2013 at 10:19 PM.

  4. #24
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    So by your logic, just because it was called an 'expansion', even though it usues the same game engine and is for all intents and purposes the same as any other area in the game, it can't be the memory leak/zone crash bug and must instead be on my end?



    So because you haven't experienced the bug on your system, which may be orders of magniture more capable of handling the memory leak than the spefications required to run DDO as published by Turbine, my complaint is irrelevant and should be dismissed?
    The memory leak will not be fixed as it's part of the version of .net that ddo is built on if I understand right. What needs to be done is that minimum specs need to be changed on the faq to 64bit 4 gigs of ram. 90% of the zone in crashes don't happen if you have that.

  5. #25
    Community Member Zorth's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Clean your fans.

    Have you cleaned your fans?

    No not your worshipers, but your computer fans regularly?

    This is key to smoothness.

    Do not let your computer overheat. Clean the fans.
    Last edited by Zorth; 04-13-2013 at 10:36 PM. Reason: Op I think your computer overheated, just my thoughts.
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  6. #26
    Community Member GreenGurgler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    That's correct, I'm stating my opinion on what is wrong. What isn't my opinion is that this bug is well documented and has been experienced by many people. It has also been in the same bugged state for years.
    THIS is the first time you have indicated your OPINION. Prior to this, you have been representing all your arguments as FACTS and claiming EVERYONE agrees with you and implying that you KNOW what Turbine is and is not doing. Congratulations!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Just because you are not experiencing a bug, does not mean that the bug does not exist. What you have posted is a clear logical fallacy.

    Do you see the logical flaws inherent in your argument?
    To quote a great Spaniard: You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means....

    You sir, have slung more fallacies in this thread than Aristotle in a lecture. Then turn around and accuse others of logical fallacies.

    I give up. I pity you.
    You have no desire to hear anything but people agreeing with you.
    You will not be satisfied until Turbine steps in this thread and says "sorry, we were on a Nintendo break for the last 3 years and didn't catch that bug, well get on it now... you were right, we really weren't even trying before".

    I am pretty sure they will step into this thread... but for a different purpose.

    Have fun, I am going to go play in the Kings Forest!
    Good Day SIR!
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  7. #27
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGurgler View Post
    THIS is the first time you have indicated your OPINION. Prior to this, you have been representing all your arguments as FACTS and claiming EVERYONE agrees with you and implying that you KNOW what Turbine is and is not doing. Congratulations!
    The memory leak is a fact. That it causes crashes is a fact. That a significant proportion of players experience it is a fact. That I have been playing for years and experienced it in select areas consistently is a fact. What else is relevant to what we are talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGurgler View Post
    To quote a great Spaniard: You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means....

    You sir, have slung more fallacies in this thread than Aristotle in a lecture. Then turn around and accuse others of logical fallacies.

    I give up. I pity you.
    You have no desire to hear anything but people agreeing with you.
    You will not be satisfied until Turbine steps in this thread and says "sorry, we were on a Nintendo break for the last 3 years and didn't catch that bug, well get on it now... you were right, we really weren't even trying before".

    I am pretty sure they will step into this thread... but for a different purpose.

    Have fun, I am going to go play in the Kings Forest!
    Good Day SIR!
    And you sir, are an hysterical troll.

  8. #28
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorth View Post
    Have you cleaned your fans?

    No not your worshipers, but your computer fans regularly?

    This is key to smoothness.

    Do not let your computer overheat. Clean the fans.
    Ya I do clean them regularly, I take my machine apart every couple of months and take out the dust and fluff. Even if it is a memory or overheating issue, the fact that so many have experienced zone crashing using hardware that matches or surpasses the technical specifications required to run DDO shows us that there is an issue somewhere. This is another reason I resent bugs like this, I can only imagine what it's doing to my hardware. Fix it Turbine..

  9. #29
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    The memory leak is a fact. That it causes crashes is a fact. That a significant proportion of players experience it is a fact. That I have been playing for years and experienced it in select areas consistently is a fact. What else is relevant to what we are talking about?



    And you sir, are an hysterical troll.
    The memory leak is caused by .net 1.1 which is what ddo runs on. .Net has memory leak issues with different code especially the 1.1 version that ddo uses. Here are some articles on it:
    http://www.google.com/search?q=memor....microsoft.com

    Now I don't work for turbine and I don't know how intertwined it is with .Net 1.1, however it is very likely that they can not easily clean this memory leak up without doing a rewrite of much of the basic client code. Which would probably be a long process with chances to spawn insane amounts of bugs in every other part of the client. How do you expect them to pay for it? It's the same amount of work as creating a new game in many aspects.

    The best that can happen is that players can manage some of it with client restarts after a few character swaps, and honestly turbine needs to change it's supported hardware recs. I'm not saying to lock out computers that would fall underneath the new requirements but to make it known that running it on such older computers is not supported by turbine.

    I have yet to meet someone that has the zone in crashes that uses:
    win7 64 bit
    has a 64 bit processor
    has 4 gb or better in ram

    unless they have done multiple character swaps this does not seem to happen if you have this hardware.

    For the record I have this barely on my laptop, but it's not the best computer by any means it's a few year old hp pavilion g6. It has a poor video card and only an i3 processor but because of how 64bit systems handle memory it doesn't have these problems.

    Drop support for XP and 32 bit systems and these problems go away.

  10. #30
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    The memory leak is caused by .net 1.1 which is what ddo runs on. .Net has memory leak issues with different code especially the 1.1 version that ddo uses. Here are some articles on it:
    http://www.google.com/search?q=memor....microsoft.com

    Now I don't work for turbine and I don't know how intertwined it is with .Net 1.1, however it is very likely that they can not easily clean this memory leak up without doing a rewrite of much of the basic client code. Which would probably be a long process with chances to spawn insane amounts of bugs in every other part of the client. How do you expect them to pay for it? It's the same amount of work as creating a new game in many aspects.

    The best that can happen is that players can manage some of it with client restarts after a few character swaps, and honestly turbine needs to change it's supported hardware recs. I'm not saying to lock out computers that would fall underneath the new requirements but to make it known that running it on such older computers is not supported by turbine.

    I have yet to meet someone that has the zone in crashes that uses:
    win7 64 bit
    has a 64 bit processor
    has 4 gb or better in ram

    unless they have done multiple character swaps this does not seem to happen if you have this hardware.

    For the record I have this barely on my laptop, but it's not the best computer by any means it's a few year old hp pavilion g6. It has a poor video card and only an i3 processor but because of how 64bit systems handle memory it doesn't have these problems.

    Drop support for XP and 32 bit systems and these problems go away.
    Turning Draw Distances to minimum has mitigated zone crashing for me in the past. I can't play with such short targetting range on mobs anymore though. I know this won't ever be fixed, but I also hate to see Turbine get away with this and every other bug that frustrates players and waste their time. They need to be called to account regularly, or things like this can slip under the radar, as this thread has shown.

  11. #31
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Turning Draw Distances to minimum has mitigated zone crashing for me in the past. I can't play with such short targetting range on mobs anymore though. I know this won't ever be fixed, but I also hate to see Turbine get away with this and every other bug that frustrates players and waste their time. They need to be called to account regularly, or things like this can slip under the radar, as this thread has shown.
    Honestly while you think you are calling them to account, I think you are wasting your breath as the problem has zero chance of being fixed if what I think it will take to fix it is true. Is it a problem yes, but without a way to fix it that has less cost than turning out a new game, it will never ever happen. I look at the fact it's been here so long in the sands ext as proof of that. Better than wasting your breath would be looking into seeing what you can do to mitigate the leak on your end. It's not perfect but it's not a perfect world, and honestly imo this is the least of the current problems with ddo.

  12. #32
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    What do you think about that?
    I think if you are running a 32 bit OS you need to start pointing fingers there and change your settings about how memory is allocated.
    The problem is yours and Microsoft, not Turbines as this issue effects more than just Turbine games.
    Last edited by Missing_Minds; 04-13-2013 at 11:46 PM.

  13. #33
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Honestly while you think you are calling them to account, I think you are wasting your breath as the problem has zero chance of being fixed if what I think it will take to fix it is true. Is it a problem yes, but without a way to fix it that has less cost than turning out a new game, it will never ever happen. I look at the fact it's been here so long in the sands ext as proof of that. Better than wasting your breath would be looking into seeing what you can do to mitigate the leak on your end. It's not perfect but it's not a perfect world, and honestly imo this is the least of the current problems with ddo.
    While it might not make any difference in the bigger picture, I do find complaining about bad things to be therapeutic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    I think if you are running a 32 bit OS you need to start pointing fingers there and change your settings about how memory is allocated.
    The problem is yours and Microsoft, not Turbines as this issue effects more than just Turbine games.
    Turbine released a game requiring certain hardware specifications to run it. If that game initially ran without fault on systems meeting those specifications, but then evolved to require higher specifications, I think Turbine should have done more work towards giving players the option of configuring their settings within the game so that it could still be run without fault at the original specifications. That is an issue with Turbine not me or Microsoft.

    Thanks for the advice though.
    Last edited by Nitesco; 04-14-2013 at 12:07 AM.

  14. #34
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    While it might not make any difference in the bigger picture, I do find complaining about bad things to be therapeutic.



    Turbine released a game requiring certain hardware specifications to run it. If that game initially ran without fault on systems meeting those specifications, but then evolved to require higher specifications, I think Turbine should have done more work towards giving players the option of configuring their settings within the game so that it could still be run without fault at the original specifications. That is an issue with Turbine not me or Microsoft.

    Thanks for the advice though.
    That's not how mmo's work though once they've lasted a long time. For example WoW these are the original system requirements:
    OS: Windows XP / Windows Vista (with latest Service Packs)

    Processor:

    Minimum: Intel Pentium 4 1.3 GHz or AMD Athlon XP 1500+
    Recommended: Dual-core processor, such as the Intel Pentium D or AMD Athlon 64 X2

    Memory:

    Minimum: 512 MB RAM (1GB for Vista users)
    Recommended: 1 GB RAM (2 GB for Vista users)

    Video:

    Minimum: 3D graphics processor with Hardware Transform and Lighting with 32 MB VRAM Such as an ATI Radeon 7200 or NVIDIA GeForce 2 class card or better
    Recommended: 3D graphics processor with Vertex and Pixel Shader capability with 128 MB VRAM Such as an ATI Radeon X1600 or NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT class card or better
    and current


    Minimum Requirements

    Recommended Specifications





    Operating System
    Windows® XP/Windows Vista®/Windows® 7/Windows® 8 (Updated with the latest Service Packs)
    Windows 7/ Windows 8 64-bit with latest service pack



    Processor
    Intel® Pentium® D or AMD Athlon™ 64 X2
    Intel Core 2 Duo 2.2 GHz,

    AMD Athlon 64 X2 2.6GHz or better



    Video
    NVIDIA® GeForce® 6800 or

    ATI™ Radeon™ X1600 Pro (256 MB)
    NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT,

    ATI Radeon HD 4830 (512 MB) or better



    Memory
    2 GB RAM (1 GB Windows XP)
    4 GB RAM



    Storage


    25 GB available hard drive space




    Internet


    Broadband internet connection
    pardon for my poor copy and paste with them sources are
    https://us.battle.net/support/en/art...ld-of-warcraft
    and
    http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/System_requirements

  15. #35
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    That's not how mmo's work though once they've lasted a long time. For example WoW these are the original system requirements:


    and current


    pardon for my poor copy and paste with them sources are
    https://us.battle.net/support/en/art...ld-of-warcraft
    and
    http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/System_requirements
    Do you have the original and current system requirements for DDO on hand?

  16. #36
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Do you have the original and current system requirements for DDO on hand?
    current
    http://support.turbine.com/link/port...ements-for-DDO

    original

    http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=43499&tab=sysreqs

    Not as big of changes and it took some googling to find it. Personally I think they really need a bump up as 32 bit just doesn't cut it anymore.

  17. #37
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    current
    http://support.turbine.com/link/port...ements-for-DDO

    original

    http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=43499&tab=sysreqs

    Not as big of changes and it took some googling to find it. Personally I think they really need a bump up as 32 bit just doesn't cut it anymore.
    Thanks, as it happens my system met the current recommended system requirements in early 2008 when I bought it.

  18. #38
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Thanks, as it happens my system meets the current recommended system requirements.
    The recommended should be changed to the recommended for hd systems. I tried to use an older laptop maybe six months ago that met the recommend system reqs but not the hd ones. It's night and day, Turbine does it's self no favors with keeping things that low as it does not run well that low.

  19. #39
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    The recommended should be changed to the recommended for hd systems. I tried to use an older laptop maybe six months ago that met the recommend system reqs but not the hd ones. It's night and day, Turbine does it's self no favors with keeping things that low as it does not run well that low.
    Throughout most my playing time, I had all my settings except Draw Distance set at low or medium, as a direct result of the various detrimental effects on gameplay that using higher settings caused. When they were super minimal, I was rarely getting zone crashes on a fresh client. I would only get them if I switched character or entered a lot of zones in rapid succession.

    I had narrowed it down to Draw Distance, but now that I have it set higher through necessity, I regularly get zone crashes in the typical areas. That said, I have absolutely no doubt that DDO would run a lot better if not flawlessly on a new higher end system.

    I do it amusing though that when I bought this PC in early 2008, it ran Crysis on medium settings at a decent framerate, yet with most settings on low, trilinear filtering, no anisotropic filtering, all bloom effects off, all lighting effects off and in DirectX 9 it can't even run a game like DDO properly, which even today looks like a stickman drawing compared to what Crysis was in 2008.

  20. #40
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Throughout most my playing time, I had all my settings except Draw Distance set at low or medium, as a direct result of the various detrimental effects on gameplay that using higher settings caused. When they were super minimal, I was rarely getting zone crashes on a fresh client. I would only get them if I switched character or entered a lot of zones in rapid succession.

    I had narrowed it down to Draw Distance, but now that I have it set higher through necessity, I regularly get zone crashes in the typical areas. That said, I have absolutely no doubt that DDO would run a lot better if not flawlessly on a new higher end system.

    I do it amusing though that when I bought this PC in early 2008, it ran Crysis on medium settings at a decent framerate, yet with most settings on low, trilinear filtering, no anisotropic filtering, all bloom effects off, all lighting effects off and in DirectX 9 it can't even run a game like DDO properly, which even today looks like a stickman drawing compared to what Crysis was in 2008.
    That's an effect of the video card though, you may have a decent one I don't know. I can tell you that mine sucks, it's an intel on board graphics card. The crashing has little to do with video though lowering the settings will reduce memory usage. 32 bit and 64 bit os's use memory slightly differently, basically 64 bit can access more of it. That's where the problems are the memory leak, it's not the video card that's causing the problem unless like me your video card uses system memory rather than it's own memory.

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