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  1. #1
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Default A possible solution to slayer arrows?

    So from what I've been reading there is both a lot of good and a lot of bad in the new AA enhancements.
    In particular I'm really interested in the imbues, and slayer arrows.

    So far, I do not like the new slayer arrow. I can understand some of the thought behind it, being that maybe AA would be a bit to OP if we could have multiple imbues going. So some balancing is appropriate. But I think the Devs are going about it the wrong way in the current version.

    My suggestion is as follows;

    Make Slayer arrows an imbue, exactly the same as on live, but allow us to use other imbues and effects at the same time. Now to balance this, when running Slayer arrows, and you activate another stance/imbue, the damage from slayer arrows either A. On vorpal you deal 250 Damage instead of 500.(half damage on on a roll of 20) or B. Slayer arrows add a flat +12 damage per arrow. (IIRK current slayers average out to an extra 25 damage per arrow, so again, half damage.)

    Basically, you're only losing a small portion of your max DPS potential, and you gain some situational versatility. Obviously this would need to be tweaked, and actually tested. But it seems much better than having another damn clickable attack.

    On my current split, I already am almost constantly using all of Trip, Sunder, 4 Ki attacks, Shadow fade, Manyshot, 10K Stars, Pin, Otto's, Adrenaline, Epic Moment, Gears swaps, and dealing with short buff durations from scrolls/low level arti spells. It's just entirely to much already, and to add even more to that... My hot bars couldn't handle it, let alone my brain.

    Hopefully this makes sense. I'm half asleep already and heading to bed now.. lol
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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  2. #2
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    I still like my idea of giving AA their old slaying arrow stance, and giving the current iteration of slaying arrow to DWS where they get to choose between slaying arrow/slaying strike in tier 5.

  3. #3
    Community Member Shmuel's Avatar
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    Any solution which provides a way to get back the 20 dmage per shot average that we had before is fine with me. Versatility is great, but I want the versatility to do significant DPS, and am happy to sacrifice other abilities to get it.
    Shmuel Xadin Xadins Errand Mohnster Yitzhak

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmuel View Post
    Any solution which provides a way to get back the 20 dmage per shot average that we had before is fine with me. Versatility is great, but I want the versatility to do significant DPS, and am happy to sacrifice other abilities to get it.
    You can still do significant DPS with the AA tree, it just doesn't require slaying arrows and many shot anymore. Personally, I prefer the changes to AA on lamma over what we have on live, as it allows for builds that use something other that imbue slaying arrows. I am also a lot more fond of the new version of slaying arrows than the version on live, simply because the damage is more consistent and controllable. I think that consistency and control is worth the cost of a bit of damage from the ability itself, especially since that ability can be used at the same time as 1, or even two, of the other elemental imbues.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmuel View Post
    Any solution which provides a way to get back the 20 dmage per shot average that we had before is fine with me. Versatility is great, but I want the versatility to do significant DPS, and am happy to sacrifice other abilities to get it.
    Hi,

    I agree with this.

    Most of the imbues add less damage or are equivalent to effects that can be achieved by using the appropriate weapon/arrows for the enemy you're facing. So I see this more as a convenience thing than a boost in offensive power, as well as a sop to people who want to feel they're playing actively because they have more buttons to press.

    The carrot of multiplying slayer arrow damage on crit doesn't seem that useful to me because of the relatively low crit range of most bows.

    So far as I can tell, if you're critting on 17-20 (with a good bow and IC ranged), the average damage from the slayer effect will be around 355 rather than 500 under the old system, averaging out normal and critical hits. Around a 30% reduction.

    Nor is it clear to me (but may be to someone else who has been testing on Lammania) whether this multiplier will operate when attacking enemies with crit resistance or immunity. I liked being able to hit enemies of any sort and get that flat 500 pts. I would not be happy if suddenly it didn't work all the time (or at all) on undead, constructs, raid bosses etc, because that would be a reduction in utility.

    Shadereaper's point about being in control of when you use the ability is a good one though. I don't like the way it is being implemented under the new system, especially with the SP cost, but it does add something in return for the dps loss. Whether it is a net gain remains to be seen.

    Thanks.
    Astrican on Khyber

  6. #6
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    Considering this is what my slayer arrow looks like at lvl 21 with a bow of sinew, everyone asking for the old version back or a measly +12 damage a shot hasn't used it to it's full potential. If you manage to get turbine to turn it into 500 base damage added though I could live with that.

    Highest crit I saw was about 12k, lowest was 4.2k sans damage boosts but please continue on about how +12 damage would be better. I could have easily hit 15k with an upgraded pinion/archer's focus and a character built for the purposes of ranged damage.

    Unfortunately kobolds only have 10k hp and the other half of the arrows didn't even register after death.

    Last edited by Jujube85; 04-18-2013 at 06:20 AM.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Cryohazard's Avatar
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    To be honest, I think the new version of slayer arrows will work just fine. I much prefer the control they offer instead of hoping for a 20 to get massive damage. (Which, with the live implementation of slayer arrows, likes to happen most when a mob is at 5% health. Most irritating. ).

    I don't think a "loss" of DPS is an issue at all. Jujube has a very valid point, +12 DPS isn't going to be much of an improvement over the current version on Lamma. Here's another example, a similar screenshot of my 20 Ranger/5 Fury of the Wild AA vs the kobolds in the test dojo. I pinned a kobold -> adrenaline -> slayer arrow and voila:



    Like Jujube, my ranger isn't fully twinked out yet, either. But the new slayer arrows, when used correctly, could dish out enough damage to fell most EE mobs in the game in 1 shot. I'll happily eat a 20s cooldown and a 20 SP cost for that kind of power.
    Last edited by Cryohazard; 04-18-2013 at 09:00 PM.
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  8. #8
    Hero rdasca's Avatar
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    Oh look two more FotW users.


    I have said it before and I will say it again, just about everyone who likes this change is a FotW user. Fine, great for them; however, not everyone playing a ranger wants to be in FotW.

    This is not promoting diversity in builds the AA tree is restricting it even further.

    The change to slayer arrows was not only not thought out very well, it begs the question of why the devs post that they want more choice when in reality there is no choice at all?

    On live now there is a noticeable gap between FotW users and anyone using any other ED, at least SC offers an argument as why a ranger would want to be in that ED, but given the current Lama build, not only is it a much greater gap now, there is no real reason not to be in FotW.

    So much for the enhancement update discouraging cookie cutter builds.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdasca View Post
    Oh look two more FotW users.


    I have said it before and I will say it again, just about everyone who likes this change is a FotW user. Fine, great for them; however, not everyone playing a ranger wants to be in FotW.

    This is not promoting diversity in builds the AA tree is restricting it even further.

    The change to slayer arrows was not only not thought out very well, it begs the question of why the devs post that they want more choice when in reality there is no choice at all?

    On live now there is a noticeable gap between FotW users and anyone using any other ED, at least SC offers an argument as why a ranger would want to be in that ED, but given the current Lama build, not only is it a much greater gap now, there is no real reason not to be in FotW.

    So much for the enhancement update discouraging cookie cutter builds.
    That's like saying that if one wants to be a healer then they shouldn't have to use the Exalted Angel ED (assuming that it is THE healer ED). There will always be an optimal ED, and even on live there is absolutely no argument why and archer should in in SC. Far too random and there is no dependability on that ED imo, it needs an overhaul as I find the tree really utterly ****.

    I for one like the direction they went with the archer, much more true to the rulebooks I say. Granted there is an overkill with activated abilities but an archer is suppose to have called shots and not some random 20 thing. Hell I say that the AA shouldn't even be placed in the ranger tree but make it race and class (abilitiy to cast lvl 1 arcane spells).

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdasca View Post
    Oh look two more FotW users.


    I have said it before and I will say it again, just about everyone who likes this change is a FotW user. Fine, great for them; however, not everyone playing a ranger wants to be in FotW.

    This is not promoting diversity in builds the AA tree is restricting it even further.

    The change to slayer arrows was not only not thought out very well, it begs the question of why the devs post that they want more choice when in reality there is no choice at all?

    On live now there is a noticeable gap between FotW users and anyone using any other ED, at least SC offers an argument as why a ranger would want to be in that ED, but given the current Lama build, not only is it a much greater gap now, there is no real reason not to be in FotW.

    So much for the enhancement update discouraging cookie cutter builds.
    So you want every variation of builds to be as viable as FoTW without actually being FoTW?

    The other destinies may not be as effective for the very specific purpose of timed burst damage but they are by no means unplayable.

    I have tested arrow of slaying in other destinies, shiradi, dreadnaught, FoTW. While it was easiest to get a crit/burst damage from FoTW adrenaline, maybe it's because the ability was designed for that sole reason. Shiradi has much better base shot damage plus the randomness. LD has boosts, crit damage and another crit multiplier, each destiny is different and situationally better at certain things, as it should be.

    (below tested on INT based level 25 ranger/arti with a crappy level 14 bow of sinew)

    Big crit from fotw adren, no surprise.


    Big crit from shiradi, maybe not fotw big but still better than what you can get out of imbue in it's current form


    Woops seems dreadnaught crit screenshot didn't work, can't test in dojo because CF 0.25 kobolds doesn't give blitz charges and I don't feel like doing Eveningstar arena again. You can take my word on it or not, but I was constantly getting 6,000-10,000 crits with 10 stack blitz going. In fact, it was so much better sustained damage in any quest where you can keep blitz up, LD is far superior to FoTW.

    So there you have it, 3 viable epic destinies that an AA can be in. If you want every single destiny to be a viable ARCHER destiny I don't know what to say to you. If you want to do damage, you might wanna be in a destiny designed for the purposes of doing just that.

    If you have an issue with shiradi being too random or FoTW burst perhaps you have an issue with epic destinies more than you have with arrow of slaying.

    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Nor is it clear to me (but may be to someone else who has been testing on Lammania) whether this multiplier will operate when attacking enemies with crit resistance or immunity. I liked being able to hit enemies of any sort and get that flat 500 pts. I would not be happy if suddenly it didn't work all the time (or at all) on undead, constructs, raid bosses etc, because that would be a reduction in utility.
    Undead, constructs and raid bosses do not have crit immunity, they have fortification. A character built to bypass fortification can easily crit The Truthful One, The Lord of Blades etc. (btw, Precision works with ranged attacks and is an invaluable feat for any archer)

    And finally, for those who don't like the shot because it's another ability you have to hit. Turn on one of the elemental imbues with a tier 5 upgrade and voila, your average damage of old slayer imbue has returned or in the case of shock arrows, increased your dps and of your raid dramatically.
    Last edited by Jujube85; 04-19-2013 at 07:55 AM.
    Jujupal 15th life completionist Deepwood Battle Engie | Jujudips 2nd life Favored Soul

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