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  1. #1
    Community Member DeafeningWhisper's Avatar
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    Default So... Anyone else with a dead build now?

    My Kensai III AA, I logged into Lamland to see what my elf ftr18 arty 1 ranger 1 would look like with the new enhancement system.

    I can no longer get Kensai enhanced crit range AND slaying arrows (both 41 needed into a tree), pretty much making the whole point of the build mute, anyone else see the core of their build gone?
    "Pike or do not. There is no lag."

  2. #2
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Kind of ironic that a system intended to simplify and provide more options is actually more complicated and leads to fewer character design choices overall.

    I really hope Turbine sticks to that original goal, realizes that this is looking like it does not accomplish that goal and takes some feedback from the players. There is some potential in a tree system, but I fear that some major changes need to be made and I think at this time Turbine is looking at minor tweaks only.

    I don't have any toons that will be wrecked by this new system as my main is finishing of his last few TR's currently. Rather than adapt a current build to the new model, I'll be looking at my options once the enhancement pass is finalized and build a toon from the top down.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  3. #3

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    I haven't gotten to test it yet, but the only thing they needed to do was give the old enhancement system a more intuitive interface but keep the functionality the same. Instead it appears they're changing the interface and dramatically altering the functionality at the same time, attempting to fix what wasn't broken and breaking things in the process.
    Ascent, Argonnessen ~ Cleatus Yogurthawker | Isostatic Rebound | Mohorovicic Discontinuity | Angular Unconformity
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  4. #4
    Community Member DeafeningWhisper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley_Nicholas View Post
    I haven't gotten to test it yet, but the only thing they needed to do was give the old enhancement system a more intuitive interface but keep the functionality the same. Instead it appears they're changing the interface and dramatically altering the functionality at the same time, attempting to fix what wasn't broken and breaking things in the process.
    What I don't understand is that rather then make the newly created skills in the trees be at the top of it, they put them mostly at the mid/bottom lvl, effectively making sure no old, muticlass build survives the change...

    While I'll try to adapt to the changes, I foresee many a deleted toon for me, call me jaded but I'm not paying Turbine by buying +5 hearts of wood to removed dead weight class level as a "thanks" for their new enhancement system.
    "Pike or do not. There is no lag."

  5. #5
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Who got killed?

    1. WIZARD SPLASHES
    Absolutely pointless now, better take monk or ftr splash instead.

    2. [b]ORIGINAL MULTICLASSING[b/]
    With 3 tree limit and removal many enhancements, multiclassing for enancements (taking ftr for haste boost, wizard for impulse etc) is no longer possible. Also, many famous multiclass builds will probably be worthless, or at best, heavily nerfed.

    3. NON HJEALBOT/NANNYBOT CLERICS
    With new 80 points into healing tree to have same spellpower as before, mentioned multiclass nerf, and removal of enancements like divine might, clerics are now hireling class.
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Random Person #2 View Post
    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  6. #6
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    pretty much all multiclass builds that makes uses of a lot of things from each of the class got screwed over
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  7. #7
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Who got killed?

    1. WIZARD SPLASHES
    Absolutely pointless now, better take monk or ftr splash instead.

    2. [b]ORIGINAL MULTICLASSING[b/]
    With 3 tree limit and removal many enhancements, multiclassing for enancements (taking ftr for haste boost, wizard for impulse etc) is no longer possible. Also, many famous multiclass builds will probably be worthless, or at best, heavily nerfed.

    3. NON HJEALBOT/NANNYBOT CLERICS
    With new 80 points into healing tree to have same spellpower as before, mentioned multiclass nerf, and removal of enancements like divine might, clerics are now hireling class.
    Cant log into Lam atm stuck on waiting...

    So i should see a vast improvement for my 18Cleric/1Monk/1Wiz evoker, necro and light offensive caster hireling then???

  8. #8
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    bug report it. on each build you have that isnt able to be rebuilt, most of my toons are pure, or their classes arent implimented so I cant test them, but next month when they have all the classes/races are in I plan on trying to rebuild any of the multiclasses I have used before / want to try out. and if they cant be reproduced its getting bug reported.


    personally I believe that each prestige tree should only have 41 AP costs total if not less. (40 in tree/core + 1AP capstone), the AP requirements (40 for t5 is ridiculous especially when t5 abilities costs 2 AP each, you end up spending more then 50aP in some trees to reproduce a fraction of what you had in live (AA is a good example of this)) And AP cost (everything costs 2 AP, sure nothing costs more then that now, but it still hurts alot of things).

  9. #9
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    Rage.

    Seriously. Only reason to play DDO is the deep character customization tools. Don't dumb them down for newer players.

  10. #10
    Community Member Davelfus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay203 View Post
    pretty much all multiclass builds that makes uses of a lot of things from each of the class got screwed over
    multiclass? hells my stalwart defender can't even stay in stance with her great axe xD

    can't wait to see how screwed up my kensai ninja will be (waiting to test this last one when ninja spy is avaiable)

  11. #11
    Community Member irnimnode's Avatar
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    at first i was like this is not good but as i worked with it more it is not a bad system not perfect but not as bad as some make it out to be. My cleric's came out the same as they were a good battle cleric the othere got somewhat aof an improvement ( 1 is a cleric 19 fighter 1 the othere cleric 19 ranger 1) my fighter 17 rouge3 major improvement my ranger 17 rouge 3 had to be done over 2 times to get it right but i lke what i ended up with ( i really like the new arrows). My arti yeah nice . This only account for 1/3 of my toons. Some are saying the muilticlass got left to the way side I think you are jumping the gun a bit. They are only doing arti cleric fighters and rangers that is only 1/3 of the class's. It is early and I am going to set and reset mine till i get what i like. I only have 3 pure class out of 20 !barbian ! fighter and 1 arti the rest are multiclass mostly 19 wiz/sorc/cleric/favsoul and 1fighteror 1 monk some 17fighter/ranger and 3rouge and 1 is a 16rouge 3fighter and 1ranger and a druid 19 ranger 1. My choices for muilticlass are for the simple reason of weapons you don't go hunting a bear with a stick. So far none are broken for the ones that i have gotten to set the rest are a wait and see.My advice is read things over very closely before you accept and if it dose not come out right reset and try agian. I think some were expecting it to be more then what it is. It is not perfect,but it is an improvement and it is in the early stages so work with it and read all of it do not just click and go

  12. #12
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    Monkchers are dead with the removal of 10k stars.
    U19 Kensei: Centered Cleaver | TR Junkie Leveling Framework

    ~Ying~ (10 lives), ~Hamada~(9 lives), ~Vadanken~ (6 lives), ~Kobeyashi~ (10 lives)
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  13. #13
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    Calling a character dead after only about 45% of the enhancement change incorporated would be the equivalent to Chicken Little screaming the sky is falling because of rain. Considering that only racial and a few classes have been released, let's keep it in touch with some semblance of some kind of organized insanity.
    The Great Gnome Conspiracy was here!

  14. #14
    Community Member DeafeningWhisper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irnimnode View Post
    at first i was like this is not good but as i worked with it more it is not a bad system not perfect but not as bad as some make it out to be. My cleric's came out the same as they were a good battle cleric the othere got somewhat aof an improvement ( 1 is a cleric 19 fighter 1 the othere cleric 19 ranger 1) my fighter 17 rouge3 major improvement my ranger 17 rouge 3 had to be done over 2 times to get it right but i lke what i ended up with ( i really like the new arrows). My arti yeah nice . This only account for 1/3 of my toons. Some are saying the muilticlass got left to the way side I think you are jumping the gun a bit. They are only doing arti cleric fighters and rangers that is only 1/3 of the class's. It is early and I am going to set and reset mine till i get what i like. I only have 3 pure class out of 20 !barbian ! fighter and 1 arti the rest are multiclass mostly 19 wiz/sorc/cleric/favsoul and 1fighteror 1 monk some 17fighter/ranger and 3rouge and 1 is a 16rouge 3fighter and 1ranger and a druid 19 ranger 1. My choices for muilticlass are for the simple reason of weapons you don't go hunting a bear with a stick. So far none are broken for the ones that i have gotten to set the rest are a wait and see.My advice is read things over very closely before you accept and if it dose not come out right reset and try agian. I think some were expecting it to be more then what it is. It is not perfect,but it is an improvement and it is in the early stages so work with it and read all of it do not just click and go
    My bardcher which is my main an favorite toon is pretty much dead too, I would need around 120/140 aps to get what I have now.

    I need to spend around 15/20 aps to unlock AA in the racial tree, then 41 in the racial AA tree which leaves me with next to nothing for my bard skills, it's not DDO anymore it's "generic MMO number 2574, were you either specialize untill it hurts or you just wasted your time making your toon".
    "Pike or do not. There is no lag."

  15. #15
    Community Member Aussir's Avatar
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    All my builds are pretty much dead since all, except ONE, are multi-class. And my sorcerer is dead too because of that **** they're doing with spellcraft, spellpower and heal for negative energy.

    All I have to say is: thanks for nothing, Turbine.
    DDO-Europe 2006/2010 - Aureon/Keeper

    I'm blunt as a rock and can seem aggressive because of it. Be aware of that when reading my posts.

  16. #16
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lerincho View Post
    Calling a character dead after only about 45% of the enhancement change incorporated would be the equivalent to Chicken Little screaming the sky is falling because of rain.
    Especially considering the developers have already stated that AP costs are purposefully high to begin with and will be getting reduced. So many people overreacting and spreading drama though I suppose that's part of why I like the forums.
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Especially considering the developers have already stated that AP costs are purposefully high to begin with and will be getting reduced. So many people overreacting and spreading drama though I suppose that's part of why I like the forums.
    Sky fell.

    I don't see a way unless every and all enhancements max cost is 1ap.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Especially considering the developers have already stated that AP costs are purposefully high to begin with and will be getting reduced. So many people overreacting and spreading drama though I suppose that's part of why I like the forums.
    It's not the AP cost of individual enhancements that kills multiclassing. It's the "points spent in tree" that kills multiclassing. That's a fundamental shift that radically reduces choices to a ridiculous degree.

  19. #19
    Community Member DeafeningWhisper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    It's not the AP cost of individual enhancements that kills multiclassing. It's the "points spent in tree" that kills multiclassing. That's a fundamental shift that radically reduces choices to a ridiculous degree.
    ^ This, without a general tree that count towards other trees there is simply no way under the current system to have multiclass anywhere close to how it is live, I'm saying my multiclass builds are dead because the new system is created in such a way as to penalize anyone not maxing a single, pigeonholed class tree.
    "Pike or do not. There is no lag."

  20. #20
    Community Member EnjoyTheJourney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menace13 View Post
    Rage.

    Seriously. Only reason to play DDO is the deep character customization tools. Don't dumb them down for newer players.
    What's being done is not a dumbing down for newer players; at least, if that was the devs' intention, then they have an odd way of going about doing that.

    The devs are adding more complexity (with trees now, and within-tree pathways and AP spending requirements, to get to good enhancements, plus new / revised skills that interact with feats and the enhancement system) onto an already very complex system, which makes it less new player friendly.

    Then, instead of easing off in other ways that the system used to restrict player choice, to leave build diversity in a better place or at least the same place, the new, extra sources of complexity further restrict build diversity, end of story.

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