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  1. #1
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    Default The Ten Thousand Star question

    I've seen some dev talk in other threads about turning Ten Thousand Stars into a feat and that it would no longer be in any of the Monk trees.

    Will it be part of the enhancement pass upgrade (i.e. will the new feat be added in at some point during the enhancement pass update)?

    Or is it going to come in on a subsequent update.

    Obviously all the builds that currently depend on 10k stars are affected.

    I don't know if any definitive answers have been given about this but some elaboration on dev thinking would be appreciated.

    Should we retain current 10k star builds or should we start thinking about converting them to something else?

    A dev response would be highly appreciated.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Also, if or when 10k stars returns as a feat, will it return in the same form as it works now?

    Again, a dev answer would be highly appreciated.

  3. #3
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    according to a few players, stances/strike are now feats (autogranted for monks at certain levels. which other monk splashes being able to grab the for feat costs). so it possible it is now a feat under the air stance.

    That being said, no one can tell for sure because monk hasnt been released yet and wont be until the 25th. so any news since there is only speculation based on unfinished and possibly misleading information. will have to wait 2 weeks before anyone can say for certain how they are now

  4. #4
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    I don't know what the plans are for 10k stars.
    It's the one thing that has made ranged pallatable in a very long time.
    If the intent is to remove it from the game and with it all the various monkcher builds, then that would be a shame.

    For me at least it would be the final straw in a string of nerfs since the games inception that has had the end result of keeping the power with barbarians, backed up by healers, with hastebots thrown into the mix. Not my idea of fun. I say this because change after change, nerf after nerf, the only class that seems to always come out unscathed is the Barbarian for whatever reason.
    Last edited by maximus123123; 04-12-2013 at 09:50 PM.

  5. #5
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    10k stars is not leaving the game.

    Any time you find any enhancement that seems to be missing entirely and you would actually ever use it, please report it as a bug.

    Note that monks and some other classes are not ready for prime time testing on Lamannia yet.

  6. #6
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    10k stars is not leaving the game.

    Any time you find any enhancement that seems to be missing entirely and you would actually ever use it, please report it as a bug.

    Note that monks and some other classes are not ready for prime time testing on Lamannia yet.
    If your going to keep 10k stars let non monks get it. Other class's should have the opportunity to have an increased rate of fire when not manyshotting with a bow. I would like to make a different build for my bow ranged character and be able to range all the time and do so without any monk levels without the significant rate of fire penalities non monk level builds get when not manyshotting.

    Edit: if nothing else let kensai get 10k stars at least then you have kensai (fighters and fighter splashes) and monks (monks and monk splashes) and rangers (deepwood) so there is more then just a handful of viable builds.
    Last edited by maddmatt70; 04-15-2013 at 04:47 PM.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    If your going to keep 10k stars let non monks get it. Other class's should have the opportunity to have an increased rate of fire when not manyshotting with a bow. I would like to make a different build for my bow ranged character and be able to range all the time and do so without any monk levels without the significant rate of fire penalities non monk level builds get when not manyshotting.

    Edit: if nothing else let kensai get 10k stars at least then you have kensai (fighters and fighter splashes) and monks (monks and monk splashes) and rangers (deepwood) so there is more then just a handful of viable builds.
    but then you won't have the ki to use it o-o

    anyway, tbh i'm kind of hoping they'd changed 10k stars back to only work for shurikens
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  8. #8
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay203 View Post
    but then you won't have the ki to use it o-o

    anyway, tbh i'm kind of hoping they'd changed 10k stars back to only work for shurikens
    I would go for that to, but would not mind a general improvement in non manyshotting rate of fire which is what is so popular about monkcher in the first place that they can do o.k. ranged dps when they are not manyshotting.

    Edit: doesnt kensai give you ki.. I thought it did not that you can do anything with it currently or is very much.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I would go for that to, but would not mind a general improvement in non manyshotting rate of fire which is what is so popular about monkcher in the first place that they can do o.k. ranged dps when they are not manyshotting.

    Edit: doesnt kensai give you ki.. I thought it did not that you can do anything with it currently or is very much.
    No. It gives you ki if you have a ki bar.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I would go for that to, but would not mind a general improvement in non manyshotting rate of fire which is what is so popular about monkcher in the first place that they can do o.k. ranged dps when they are not manyshotting.

    Edit: doesnt kensai give you ki.. I thought it did not that you can do anything with it currently or is very much.
    well, with the new secondary imbues introduced with AA, shadow arrows actually will do quite nicely when stacked with other +% in chance to fire off additional arrow

    i think they're really afraid to give bows better fire rate due to how OP manyshot is right now, so the only hope is if they're allowed to nerf manyshot.
    and i think we both know what kind of uproar will happen when they nerf manyshot....
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  11. #11
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    Yeah varguile what happened to the changing of 10 thousand stars to a feat , The small passive percent of Extra-Shot currently obtainable in lamannia is nothing compared to a 30 second clickie of ten thousand stars . And theres prob a way to get extra shot chance and ten-k-stars on a monk to make those ranger builds feel like b-rated heroes !!

    Really though im sure i speak for everyone when i ask if ten-k-stars is going to be made into a feat as originally speculated by a dev ??????

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay203 View Post
    well, with the new secondary imbues introduced with AA, shadow arrows actually will do quite nicely when stacked with other +% in chance to fire off additional arrow

    i think they're really afraid to give bows better fire rate due to how OP manyshot is right now, so the only hope is if they're allowed to nerf manyshot.
    and i think we both know what kind of uproar will happen when they nerf manyshot....
    Heaven forbid they align it to PNP ... and it only works when you're standing still (or does a rune-arm-like slow movement impact) ... it's not Greater Manyshot after all.
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  13. #13
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay203 View Post
    well, with the new secondary imbues introduced with AA, shadow arrows actually will do quite nicely when stacked with other +% in chance to fire off additional arrow

    i think they're really afraid to give bows better fire rate due to how OP manyshot is right now, so the only hope is if they're allowed to nerf manyshot.
    and i think we both know what kind of uproar will happen when they nerf manyshot....
    Yeah but people will still have to have at least 2-5 levels of monk which limits build options because 10k stars is probably going to add 2-3 arrows for 30 seconds every whatever seconds that presumably stacks with all these other properties you list. I have been itching to try a fighter/barbarian archer or fighter or X and you get pigeonholed into this 2-5+ monk level build.

    The problem with monkchers not the fact that monkcehrs themselves are overpowered just that they are far stronger then other more traditional archer builds because they do so much more damage when not manyshotting then some of these other builds. Of course manyshot is flawed too but that is not a problem specific to monkchers.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Shmuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    10k stars is not leaving the game.

    Any time you find any enhancement that seems to be missing entirely and you would actually ever use it, please report it as a bug.

    Note that monks and some other classes are not ready for prime time testing on Lamannia yet.
    Thank you for the response.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    The problem with monkchers not the fact that monkcehrs themselves are overpowered just that they are far stronger then other more traditional archer builds because they do so much more damage when not manyshotting then some of these other builds. Of course manyshot is flawed too but that is not a problem specific to monkchers.
    It's not nearly as much damage as people pretend it is. There is a lot to be said for ranger or barbarian or fighter giving more damage not only while manyshot is down but also during manyshot. That fact that you also get 25% incorp and evasion from 6 monk levels is really what makes it as popular as it is. The damage isn't all that special.

  16. #16
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oweieie View Post
    It's not nearly as much damage as people pretend it is. There is a lot to be said for ranger or barbarian or fighter giving more damage not only while manyshot is down but also during manyshot. That fact that you also get 25% incorp and evasion from 6 monk levels is really what makes it as popular as it is. The damage isn't all that special.
    Well evasion is not as big a deal as improved evasion of course, but what you say is true to an extent. I used to have an 14 fighter 1 bard 1 ranger that was plenty suriveable using Umd and the like back in the days of the 16 cap. Someone could come up with a very suriveable build that has no monk levels, but what is like salt in the wounds is 10k stars means less dps to that build. I was thinking of some sort of fighter barbarian ranger with high hit points, good prr, displacement dragonmarks sort of thing or any of zillion combinations like that, but that they do less dps then some silly monk splash with 10k stars is seriously annoying.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Davelfus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    If your going to keep 10k stars let non monks get it.
    Yeah.... let other classes get barbarian rage too, i would like the extra str and con,
    also let other classes get the heal spell! hate to drink pots all the time or bring a hire....

    /sarcasm off


    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Other class's should have the opportunity to have an increased rate of fire when not manyshotting with a bow.
    with this part i can agree, maybe add improved/greater/epic rapid shot or smth

    probably after this pass is done, we will have a feat pass to add some missing stuff like epic spells and update some old feats (weapon focus... +1 to hit? come on)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    If your going to keep 10k stars let non monks get it. Other class's should have the opportunity to have an increased rate of fire when not manyshotting with a bow. I would like to make a different build for my bow ranged character and be able to range all the time and do so without any monk levels without the significant rate of fire penalities non monk level builds get when not manyshotting.

    Edit: if nothing else let kensai get 10k stars at least then you have kensai (fighters and fighter splashes) and monks (monks and monk splashes) and rangers (deepwood) so there is more then just a handful of viable builds.
    Again, as I've said in several other threads in the past, I'd prefer for fighters and rangers (in particular), and probably barbarians, rogues and bards, to get some other ranged-centric abilities that make them competitive with 10K Stars, without simply copying the ability.

    Give fighters ranged tactical feats, add in some ranged double-strike, Haste Boost, and their higher damage per shot, and that should be competitive with monkchers (who, I think should be able to use Ki Strikes with any weapon they are centered with--namely bows and shuriken).

    Deepwood Sniper and the new AA look like they do a pretty good job of promoting rangers as a contender for archery builds beyond simply a splash, but I think they could stand to get a little bit more, like some archery-enhancing spells. Maybe AoE archery shots, some spell-based crowd control via a bow, etc...

    Give barbarians their Crit Rage back, and find a way to get the requisite feats into the build, and they should make competitive archers as well.

    Then it's just a question of putting enough incentive at class level 20 to make splashing 2-5 levels of monk for 10K Stars a difficult decision with some real trade-offs.

    By the way, the suggestions I make are somewhat inspired by the breakdown of viable archers in Pathfinder RPG (D&D 3.75), where monks can get the Zen Archer archetype that sets them as having the highest ranged rate of fire (and mimics the DDO ranger by freeing them from having to pick up the important archery feats, so they can dump their Dex), while the fighter's Archer archetype gives them access to ranged tactics along with a few other nifty abilities, in addition to having the highest to-hit and damage per shot on average of probably any archery build in PF (in addition to their being able to pick up ALL the archery feats, of which there are many). Paladins also make good archers, mostly due to the different mechanics of smite evil.

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay203 View Post
    i think they're really afraid to give bows better fire rate due to how OP manyshot is right now, so the only hope is if they're allowed to nerf manyshot.
    and i think we both know what kind of uproar will happen when they nerf manyshot....
    Hi,

    Jay, you've mentioned in a number of your posts recently that you think manyshot is overpowered.

    I completely disagree with that, because I think most of the current interest in getting manyshot into a melee build is because of the way it interacts with FOTW abilities like adrenaline. These are two very, very different things.

    Please, try to remember that manyshot is in use through the heroic levels and by characters not in the FOTW ED. Manyshot is not inherently overpowered by itself.

    Rangers don't suddenly start to rule the game at Level 6 when they first acquire the feat. Because at that point, it's two arrows per volley, for 20 seconds, with a two minute cooldown. And even then it's single target.

    It finally becomes decently powerful at the point when your character acquires IPS and slaying arrows, if that character is an AA. At which point many other classes have reliable instakills and other powerful abilities on much shorter timers.

    I don't want my heroic level game, or time in endgame as a shiradi or in another ED, ruined simply because people like you can't or won't parse out the ingredients of this 'problem' logically and prefer to advocate nerfs which throw out the baby with the bathwater instead.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blerkington; 04-16-2013 at 12:55 AM.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay203 View Post
    but then you won't have the ki to use it o-o

    anyway, tbh i'm kind of hoping they'd changed 10k stars back to only work for shurikens
    Me to after all it is called 10k stars not 10k arrows or whatever.

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