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  1. #1
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    Default Thoughts on new system and Arcane Archer

    MULTICLASSING

    The greatest pain that I can see is the prerequisite "Points Spent In Tree."

    The problem is, when you move over to a new tree, you have to spend the same minimums to climb up the tree. We only have 80 points to spend which forces one to either specialize in one tree or just take the basic minimums in two or three (keeping in mind you still need to meet feat prerequisites as well still).

    I would suggest making the "Points Spent In Tree" prerequisite for each enhancement be global across trees so that you don't have to always start from the bottom. If you have the "Points Spent" minimum established in say Arcane Archer, you should be able to get a higher up enhancement from another tree so long as you have the feat and enhancement prerequisites (not the "Points Spent In Tree" for that specific tree). This is the mechanic that will restrict multiclassing in my opinion. One already is forced to take lower level enhancements they may not want in order to move up. Repeat that on the next tree and more wasted points. Then on the third tree and...you can see how it gets expensive real quick. And this is regardless of the build. This goes for really any multiclassed character.

    ----------------------------------------

    ARCANE ARCHER

    Don't like:

    No Sprint Boost enhancement (must have feats for Tempest to get that from that tree).

    All the new Arrow Attacks that require spell points and have a cooldown.
    There is a reason Deepwood Sniper never took off before and (at least for me) the main reason was because I had to remember to click something every 20 seconds or so. Now that mechanic has been expanded to Slaying Arrows -- the main draw of Arcane Archer for the last few years. So now Slayer Arrows require spell points (20 points per click) and can only be used once every 20 seconds. Don't know about others, but if this goes in as is, I'll pass on it.

    Likes:

    Secondary stances in addition to primary stance (multiple imbues in effect).
    Metalline arrow stance.
    Bludgeon, Slashing damage stance.
    Elemental arrows with other effects when you get Improved Elemental Arrows.

    For me at least, bottom line for Arcane Archer are more imbues and or stances (even possibly tertiary stances in addition to the secondary) and fewer things you have to click to proc -- especially when that involves spell points and cooldowns. Most AA's do not have a whole lot of spell points to work with and it gets even less when you are talking about pure Fighter AA's for example. Even if you get rid of the spell point usage and reduce cooldowns, I personally just can't be bothered to remember to click various Arrow attacks along with all the other hotbarred buttons I already have tied to my number keypad.
    Last edited by maximus123123; 04-12-2013 at 11:20 AM.

  2. #2
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    For the current Arrow Attacks, might I suggest making them a tertiary stance/imbue (as opposed to clickable procs) that would work as slaying arrows currently do on a vorpal attack (natural 20).

    That way there is an initial cost for the imbue and would pretty much work the same way imbue Slaying Arrows work now allowing a sort of continuation rather than an abrupt change to what many of us have liked so many years.

    I cannot emphasize enough how much of a pain it is to watch various cooldowns and remember to click this or that while worrying about spell point usage. I believe Arrow Attacks were a poorly thought out mechanic and should be replaced by vorpal loaded attacks similar to the way imbue Slaying Arrows currently works for continuity sake -- don't try to change to much at once and especially towards a Deepwood Sniper type mechanic that was universally shunned by so many and for so long.

  3. #3
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    I haven't tried it myself, but I have to wonder...

    How is it any harder than watching the cool down for Many shot and 10k stars?

    How is it any harder than a melee juggernaut watching the cooldowns on all his cleaves and such?

    Or is the issue you are just waiting on a singular cooldown again? What is the cause of your percpetion that Slayer on demand is a bad thing just becaue of a cool down timer watching? (granted I find the 20SP cost to be too darn much for how combat oriented this game is.)

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    I haven't tried it myself, but I have to wonder...

    How is it any harder than watching the cool down for Many shot and 10k stars?

    How is it any harder than a melee juggernaut watching the cooldowns on all his cleaves and such?

    Or is the issue you are just waiting on a singular cooldown again? What is the cause of your percpetion that Slayer on demand is a bad thing just becaue of a cool down timer watching? (granted I find the 20SP cost to be too darn much for how combat oriented this game is.)
    I like the current mechanic where it's vorpal loaded so I don't have to watch it at all.
    The reason is, I'm already watching a lot of things:
    Adreniline clicks
    10k stars
    manyshot
    abundant step
    shadow fade
    unbridled fury
    otto's whistler
    Pin
    stunning fist

    We are not just talking about Slaying arrows either. There are a half dozen new Arrow Attacks that work on the same mechanic of spell points and a cooldown.

    Most AA's don't have the spell points to take advantage of these Arrow Attacks, and I personally would not bother with them even if I did for the same reason I didn't take Deepwood Sniper.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    I haven't tried it myself, but I have to wonder...

    How is it any harder than watching the cool down for Many shot and 10k stars?

    How is it any harder than a melee juggernaut watching the cooldowns on all his cleaves and such?

    Or is the issue you are just waiting on a singular cooldown again? What is the cause of your percpetion that Slayer on demand is a bad thing just becaue of a cool down timer watching? (granted I find the 20SP cost to be too darn much for how combat oriented this game is.)
    For me it comes down to the way it plays.

    On my Monk I'm usually fairly stationary when attacking so I can glance down and check on cooldowns for strikes.

    On my AA Ranger I'm usually moving around and need to keep an eye on my position, the mobs position, the mobs position in relation to other mobs to make best use of IPS, the position of any obstacles, the position of party members so that I can angle myself to end up near them when mobs reach me.

    Now they're adding the need to do all of that AND look at hotbars for cooldowns while moving?

    *Edit* AND having to keep an eye on Temp SP and SP in general to use all these attacks.
    Last edited by Archangel666; 04-12-2013 at 11:54 AM.

  6. #6
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Ah, so your bases is built upon multi classing and not mostly pure build.

    Given the separation marks in your op, I considered them two separate topics instead of having an influence on each other.

    However, I still can't see how it is any different from a melee character so built up.

    But to help your argument, you could take the fact of how they changed the Cloak of Ice.
    It used to be a clicky, so you could activate Fireshield on demand. They turned it into a random chance when hit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel666 View Post
    Now they're adding the need to do all of that AND look at hotbars for cooldowns while moving?

    *Edit* AND having to keep an eye on Temp SP and SP in general to use all these attacks.
    The temp SP is more an annoyance than anything. I have to cast a spell in 6 seconds in order to take advantage of it? No, that is just a great gimick to make me blow through my SP faster than I want to. I'd rather see such removed, or be treated like temp HP. There until used.
    The SP cost, I have disagreed with. Esp when you consider the standard DPS of range. It is just a kick in the nuts.

    As for the looking at hotbars while moving? I don't have much of any issue with that, however, that is me, and you are not me. Each player is different. I'm not arguing the opinion, just wanting better understanding which was given.
    Last edited by Missing_Minds; 04-12-2013 at 11:58 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel666 View Post
    For me it comes down to the way it plays.

    On my Monk I'm usually fairly stationary when attacking so I can glance down and check on cooldowns for strikes.

    On my AA Ranger I'm usually moving around and need to keep an eye on my position, the mobs position, the mobs position in relation to other mobs to make best use of IPS, the position of any obstacles, the position of party members so that I can angle myself to end up near them when mobs reach me.

    Now they're adding the need to do all of that AND look at hotbars for cooldowns while moving?
    Yup exactly.
    Moving and trying to figure out which arrow attack to do will become painful.

    Moving already requires situational awareness not just for obstacles but for improved precise shot as well.
    It will mean having to stop moving to click a button as I'm usually using most of my fingers already for positioning (strafing keys as well as forward, left, right, back).
    Last edited by maximus123123; 04-12-2013 at 12:01 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    However, I still can't see how it is any different from a melee character so built up.
    For a ranged toon, movement is paramount.
    I'd prefer to have all of my undivided attention focused on movement than tapping various attacks.

    You only have a limited number of fingers and I use all the movement keys (left, right, backwards, forwards, strafe left, strafe right, and jump as well as look up and look down).
    Last edited by maximus123123; 04-12-2013 at 12:00 PM.

  9. #9
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximus123123 View Post
    For a ranged toon, movement is paramount.
    I'd prefer to have all of my undivided attention focused on movement than tapping various attacks.

    You only have a limited number of fingers and I use all the movement keys (left, right, backwards, forwards, strafe left, strafe right, and jump as well as look up and look down).
    That is very much a given. As stated, I do not have the problems you do, on range or melee.

    An active arti is just as bad (if not worse as I do watch HP bars also in case the healer can't keep up), and as stated, I have zero issues.

    And as also stated, you are not me, but that does not reduce the value of your opinion what so ever.

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