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  1. #41
    Community Member bhgiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlsidhe View Post
    And, honestly, I don't forsee bonus AP in the store, as that could be gamebreaking once we see all the trees.
    AP in the store would theoretically mean a pure build could have 2 capstones. Yeah, that will never happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by dlsidhe View Post
    And - if the initial tales hold true - humans and helves will have access to any PrE as a racial if they make sufficient investments.
    The racial trees look much different than what you are describing. I'm not sure if there will be more to them added later but humans and Helfs don't have this ability in the slightest.
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  2. #42
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    I like the flavor or the Heavy Draw a lot. It's nice to have to decide between Precision and a PA equivalent for bow users.
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  3. #43
    Community Member dlsidhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhgiant View Post
    AP in the store would theoretically mean a pure build could have 2 capstones. Yeah, that will never happen.
    I didn't even consider that, but that eliminates monetization of AP.

    The racial trees look much different than what you are describing. I'm not sure if there will be more to them added later but humans and Helfs don't have this ability in the slightest.
    That might have been gamebreaking and gotten nixed; it was mentioned during the initial talk before MoTU.

    Or it might still be in the works. *shrugs* I read (again, haven't gotten home to look at things first hand yet) that the racial PrEs other than Arcane Archer are disabled during this initial alpha test, so it may pop up in a later alpha or in the eventual beta.
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  4. #44
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    Unhappy Underwhelmed

    Logged into a pure elven ranger to check out the new enhancements.

    My first impression is that the new enhancement system requires a character to take way to many useless enhancements to get to the more interesting ones.

    The old system was based simply on total AP spent, which meant that sometime you may spend a couple of AP on things that you may not have taken otherwise. The new system, with its trees and tiers, required an even greater amount of AP spend things that you may not want.

    I may like a tier 4 ability of one tree, but would have to invest too heavily to get the one ability that is useful to my build.

    Additionally, the majority of the abilities in the PRE trees are lackluster, especially AA. Way too many activate abilities with an attached SP cost. I tried out Inferno Shot, thinking it could be interesting. Sadly, it is a serious waste of SP. 10 ticks of it, was only adding around 15 dps and would have cost you 60sp. On a class with limited SP pool, just not worth it. Also, an grazing hits or misses means you've lost your stack.

    Feels like so much less build options then before. In the old enhancement system, other than a limit of 1 PRE and some pre-reqs, all the enhancements for the class/race were available. Under the new system, its pick a tree or two and hope it has some of the things that you want.

    Also, the lack of a devotion line hurts self-healing via cure spells.

  5. #45
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    I liked the deepwood stalker personally. There was a healing vigor like effect in deepwood, but have no idea how effective it is. Since rangers get the heal skill they could use the vigor and their cure spells in conjunction. An AA ranger could presumably take some useful things in deepwood and then get the vigor effect and use that. The tempest had an improved evasion and definitely got a dps upgrade making it more competitive with other melee class which is good. AA I liked in alot of ways because it rewards thinking as in we do not just leave slaying arrow on all the time but have other useful arrows to swap to so I thought that was an improvement of sorts. This is all alot to take in so until folks really have more time I would not give too much thought into initial feedback.
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  6. #46
    Community Member bhgiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dungeonD123 View Post
    I tried out Inferno Shot, thinking it could be interesting. Sadly, it is a serious waste of SP. 10 ticks of it, was only adding around 15 dps and would have cost you 60sp. On a class with limited SP pool, just not worth it. Also, an grazing hits or misses means you've lost your stack.
    I agree. Inferno could use some looking into. Right now the dps stacks too slowly and is too expensive and fragile. I don't think spell power boosts its damage either.
    Quote Originally Posted by dungeonD123 View Post
    Also, the lack of a devotion line hurts self-healing via cure spells.
    I'm definitely in agreement here. The cure spells just aren't powerful enough without it. Though it is worth mentioning that the the Heal skill now grants positive healing power. I'm not sure if it will make up for it.
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  7. #47
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Yeh, I'm wondering where the heck my Devotion line went, and WHY???

    I am looking forward to trying out the T3/4/5 Tempest abilities, they look awesome and seem to fit my current Tempest's playstyle very well.

    More importantly, I'm really curious to see how these will work with shallow ftr/rog/mnk splashes.

    So far though, it looks promising.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    Oh, I'm sure we'll have way more than 80 points to spend. It will come in the form of +5 AP to +15 AP tomes. Coming soon to the DDO store. There's a bit of sarcasm in my statement, but really who thinks this won't happen in some form? We were wondering how they would monetize the enhancement pass.
    Not as it currently stands. This question was asked a few mins ago on Lamm. Dev's said that they're unlikely to increase the AP we get, but may reduce costs of some Enhancements.

  9. #49

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    Agreed. I think that Fighter 6 is going to be a very sexy splash into a wide variety of other builds. Gets you the first 3 Kensei Core Abilities and a full tree of Kensei weapon focusing.
    Would need to be Fighter 8, since the second-from-the-top damage focus enhancement needs the Superior Weapon Focus feat, and that has Fighter 8 as a requirement.

    6 will still be good, just not good enough to hit the top of the tree. This is probably for the best, since the very top of the tree lets you use any melee weapon as a ki weapon, and that opens up all kinds of possibilities for monks. You can still get (assuming it works roughly as it does now) the third tier Air stance with 12 Monk though.

    8/12 Kensai/Monk with a pair of ki'd up Mornhs. Keen Edge from Kensai + Pulverizer and DevCrit from Dreadnaught, combined with Tier3 Air stance attack speed and doublestrike while blitzing? Oh the pain.
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  10. #50
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    Hi,

    There are some interesting things here, but so far it doesn't look good overall.

    No devotion enhancements is a big loss for ranger types, particularly those who don't have access to racial healing amp.

    The AP costs of the abilities seem high, which means our characters may have to be more specialised than before. That doesn't work well with multiclassing either, or for people like me who like generalist characters who are good but not top tier at a few different things.

    Under the old system it was possible to build characters who were pretty good at a few things, and we seem to be moving away from that.

    The change to the AA slayer arrow is really terrible. The cooldown essentially makes it incompatible with manyshot, and low SP pools of rangers, especially while levelling, will be problematic too.

    If I'm reading the descriptions correctly for deepwood sniper, it looks like some of the abilities are actually tied to ranger class levels rather than progression through a tree. That discourages multiclassing again.

    One of the strengths of the existing system (and of DDO in general) is the ability to come up with interesting, non cookie-cutter builds that draw on the strengths of a number of classes. Here we seem to moving away from that, which in my view is a mistake.

    We'll just have to see how it goes, I guess. If we will be working with more than 80AP some of these issues will be less problematic, for my preferred build anyway. But not looking good so far.

    Thanks.
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  11. #51
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    Spent a good 3 hours checking stuff out after rolling a fresh toon.

    Stuff's TOO DANG EXPENSIVE! Seriously, having 3 trees is a cruel joke as you simply can't afford anything from more than one unless you dabble only with the low-hanging fruit. Forget FEamage on a tempest, never gonna happen.

    Way to much worthless junk needs to be bought to unlock the goodies. Needed to spend 22 points in human to get the full Healing Amp line and that require buying some stuff that I'd never need and never use.

    I mean I really hate this new setup, it's a confusing kluge of a disaster. Maybe if stuff was cheaper and we actually could see some more options instead of less it might not be terrible.

    Oh . . . and the 12/6/2 multiclassers . . . . I'm sorry.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    Oh . . . and the 12/6/2 multiclassers . . . . I'm sorry.
    Hi,

    Yes, being one of the people who like those builds, I agree. This is a big step backwards for certain build types.

    Thanks.
    Astrican on Khyber

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Hi,

    Yes, being one of the people who like those builds, I agree. This is a big step backwards for certain build types.

    Thanks.
    And a big step-forward for Neverwinterish Cookiecutters.
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  14. #54
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    Hi,

    Now that I think about it, these changes remind me more and more of problems we've experienced with system development and implementation at my work.

    Namely, an inability to identify what is good about existing practices, a desire to make change for its own sake without establishing that it will be an improvement, and unwillingness of the developer to document its changes. Now all we need is a disengagement from its customer base by ignoring feedback and we have all the ingredients for a bad outcome.

    But it's still early days, I suppose, and I would dearly like to be proved wrong about this.
    Astrican on Khyber

  15. #55
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    Im liking the Tempest Tree, it's not for everyone but I'm looking at some sort of Tempest 10 Kensai 8 Monk 2, Wind Stance with Scimmies and max ******** dex running in shadowdancer and using executioners strikes.

    I think maybe we will see more customisation, hopefully we get a few more AP to spend, even an additional AP per level up would be nice.
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  16. #56
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    As someone who has been messing around with a Deepwood Sniper-esque character using crossbows on live, it looks like this PrE got a major upgrade that should make playing that characters tons of fun and give me more options to choose from. I am really happy that the "Sniper shot" ability was mostly left alone, because that is tons of fun to use strategically.

    However, the lack of devotion is really going to hurt people. I do not think this is a good move, even with the addition of the heal skill. I appreciate the change of the heal skill, but honestly if devotion enhancements were added people would still have to make some hard choices in AP allotment as is. The heal skill, especially for the dumb paladins, can be a bit out of reach.

    Haven't really played arcane archer characters or tempests to cap, but I think the arcane archer imbues look very lacking for the cost in sp and don't know about new tempest necessarily being a boost.

  17. #57
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    This is sad the only thing rangers had going for them is burst DPS and if you go Helf Cleric you had some usefulness in heal and raise'd dead. But with this I'm supposed to buff, hit slayer arrow, hit other buttons, kite or try to line up mobs for IPS. Then when I get hit by a drow in EH whatever for 114-150 (X2) damage then I have to hit my cure serious wound spell for 50HP and DING! I'm dead. In a Medium quest I will be out of SP and I have a green steel SP item. Solo'ing a quest not so much anymore. Cleric resource drain yep.

    This is not a multiclass discussion thread.

    Dev's need to see that the RANGER enhancement line is wrong or right.

  18. #58
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel666 View Post
    Not as it currently stands. This question was asked a few mins ago on Lamm. Dev's said that they're unlikely to increase the AP we get, but may reduce costs of some Enhancements.
    That is good to hear.

    I really like the deepwood stalker capstone, always sneak attack.

  19. #59
    Community Member Aussir's Avatar
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    Interesting... to get what I get now with 80 AP's on my ranger/fighter, I will need over 100 and 4 trees with this new and improved poo... sounds good to me... /sarcasm

    Here's suggestions:

    - Lower AP costs because this is insane.
    - Favored enemy lines should be available to ALL Ranger trees, not just one. This makes us have to waste 1 tree to get Favored Enemy lines.
    - Allow us to have a 4th tree. This alone would save a lot, if not all the 3 class builds out there.
    - Get rid of the trash we need to get for some enhancements.
    - Keep enhancements to class level and AP spent as we had until now. The new system reeks.
    - Make the Core Skills auto-granted as we get the levels and stop making us waste 10 AP's on them.

    For example, take a 12 rogue/6 ranger/2 fighter. In the current setup, this build is dead. Add a 4th tree and lower AP costs and we'll have a way to keep the build even if it means having to juggle a little.

    There's too much trash we have to get only to get 1 or 2 decent enhancements... even enhancements that didn't need trash until now, like Favored Enemy. Orc Strength is another one that comes to my mind as something that didn't have a requirement and now needs trash to get it. Get rid of the trash requirements; our AP's are limited as it is.

    Turbine, if your aim is to pigeon hole us ala NWO, I will gladly pack my things and go to NWO or some other pigeon hole MMO out there, I don't need DDO for that.
    I'm on DDO because or VERSATILITY of builds.

    Your HATE for the multiclasses is reaching levels where it's starting to reek, honestly.
    Last edited by Aussir; 04-11-2013 at 10:17 PM.
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  20. #60
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    Has anyone tested out the new active abilities? Do they have any slow nasty animations on them that would make them obnoxious to use with dual wielding?

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