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  1. #101
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    What're your thought on Slayer arrows folks? Like old or new better?

    Just got my AA on live back to 20 (character copy failed . . . GRRRRHHHH) and I'm really not sure myself if one is better or worse.

  2. #102
    Community Member dlsidhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    What're your thought on Slayer arrows folks? Like old or new better?

    Just got my AA on live back to 20 (character copy failed . . . GRRRRHHHH) and I'm really not sure myself if one is better or worse.
    Depends on what you prefer: A one-time expenditure of SP for a continual chance at massive damage, or periodic expenditure of SP for guaranteed massive damage.

    I like the new ones, because you can pick your moment to use the ability vs. hoping it procs at the right time. Hit manyshot, hit slayer, and you have - guaranteed - 4 slayer arrows. Plus, the damage is affected by critical multipliers (or at least it was during the alpha), so you hit manyshot - adrenaline - slayer and you watch ridiculousness. However, some people don't like having a bunch of clickies, so I see both sides.
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  3. #103
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    Not sure if someone has mentioned it (I remember seeing it somewhere but it might not be here).

    It would be a nice addition if somewhere in the deepwood stalker there is an enhancement that lets you attack while sneaking (ofc. ranged attacks) and not breaking the sneak. Some hide/walk silently penalties should be put but the option would be still nice.

  4. #104
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    Default Why did devs remove Positive Spellpower enhancements?!

    The lack of Positive Spellpower modifiers in the Ranger trees is criminal. Even if a character has a 28 Heal Skill (23 ranks + 5 epic levels), characters are still 52 Positive Spellpower shy of what's available on live.
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  5. #105
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    What're your thought on Slayer arrows folks? Like old or new better?
    New slaying arrows hands down. Sure I'm going to have to get a bauble for my AA, but big deal. I've been needing to get one anyway.

    Furyshot + slaying arrows was good enough in the first round of enhancements to make me go collect two more Ranger lives on my AA in anticipation of the changes.

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hajutze View Post
    It would be a nice addition if somewhere in the deepwood stalker there is an enhancement that lets you attack while sneaking (ofc. ranged attacks) and not breaking the sneak. Some hide/walk silently penalties should be put but the option would be still nice.
    Changes to the original alpha preview before going live are a pipe dream. There will not be any changes to the trees.

    Clerics got a brand new tree, and a welcome tree at that, but all the problems in the other two cleric trees? Not one single change.

    Fighters were promised Haste Boost, and miracle of miracles, they got it. It was added as a choice to an already existing boost in one of the trees, meaning the actual tree itself didn't change. They also got extra action boost added in. Grand total of two changes in all the fighter trees.

    Rangers were promised devotion, and of course rangers can go pound sand. Not one single change in any ranger tree.

    Bards got a rework for warchanter, at least! Woot! Can't shake a stick without running into a bard.

    MajMal text-dumped a list of bajillion "changes," and that list only reinforces that there will be NO CHANGES to the original alpha preview. All they have been doing, and all they will do, is fix bugs to make the enhancements themselves function. The framework that was first unveiled -- with bad trees and overpriced enhancements -- is what's going live regardless of what we say.

    The amount of hate the cleric trees got on first preview is the only thing that draws dev attention. Anything short of universal condemnation was ignored.

    So no, despite dev assurances, rangers will not be getting devotion.

  7. #107
    Community Member OverlordOfRats's Avatar
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    Default Solution for Ranger Devotion

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Actually, this is workable as a tier 1 ability, 3 ranks, 2 AP per rank, 20 devotion per rank.

    Spend 6 AP to get 60 devotion, since it's tier 1 it's available to any ranger, and for comparison to live you get 60 devotion from 6 AP so it's no change compared to tier 3 on live. The missing 20 devotion to be made up for with the heal skill.
    This is the perfect solution.

    Thank you.

  8. #108
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    Default Tempest weapons and strength based tempest

    Things that puzzle me (I'm easily puzzled).

    Scimitars get treated as light weapons in the tempest line and dexterity can be used for both hitting and damaging. I see a few problems stemming from this.

    1, Tempest rangers will maximise dexterity and minimise strength (which will become irrelevant for close combat), as dexterity is used for hitting in close combat, hitting at range and for close combat damage. Strangely rangers have bow strength which will become all but useless if strength is minimised, thus making ranged combat even less viable.

    2. Elf rangers have to choose to improve hitting and damaging with rapiers OR scimitars. The obvious choice is scimitars as rapiers won't get the above light weapon bonuses. But they will thus only gain bonuses with shortbows (as longbows are on the rapier side of the elf weapon bonuses). Most, if not all, of the good bows are longbows. BUT if this was fixed by making rapiers count as light weapons too then they would be the no-brainer choice and scimitars would be the stupid choice as rangers would always want the longbow/rapier line and not the scimitar/shortbow one.

    3. With the demise of strength for tempest rangers, half orc ones become a stupid choice. At the moment I have half orc tempests. High strength is great for killing close up and at range. With this new system, a dex-based elf ranger will do far more close combat damage than a strength based half orc. The elf also gains the racial bonuses to scimitar damage too, but the half orc only gets bonuses for two handed weapons. Scimitars would seem a very orcy choice but they get no bonuses for these.

    Other notes:
    It seems strange that rapiers aren't also treated as light weapons seeing as how they are lighter than scimitars (eg can be used as finesse weapons).

    2APs seems a lot for +1 reflex save (Improved reaction)

    Likewise 2 APs for Improved defence (+1AC) is way too much seeing as how one point of AC became almost irrelevant with the new combat system. I don't think I'd want to pay 2APs for +3AC.

    2APs for improved mobility?? This doesn't actually give you anything unless you are have reached max MDB or dodge and only allows you to use more dex bonus or dodge if you have it. And it only boosts these allowances by one anyway. So 2APs to allow you to gain one more dex bonus to AC or 1% dodge. Too much.

    2APs for critical accuracy?? way too much. +1 to confirm criticals is not a great bonus for 2 APs.

    The top tier clickies don't interest me. I'm not a great fan of too many activated abilities anyway and added to those in epic destinies I'd feel like I was playing street fighter, not D&D.

    Not sure why you even bother having the choice of strength increase in the tempest tree as dexterity is pretty much always better.
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  9. #109
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donblas View Post
    Things that puzzle me (I'm easily puzzled).

    Scimitars get treated as light weapons in the tempest line and dexterity can be used for both hitting and damaging. I see a few problems stemming from this.

    1, Tempest rangers will maximise dexterity and minimise strength (which will become irrelevant for close combat), as dexterity is used for hitting in close combat, hitting at range and for close combat damage. Strangely rangers have bow strength which will become all but useless if strength is minimised, thus making ranged combat even less viable.

    2. Elf rangers have to choose to improve hitting and damaging with rapiers OR scimitars. The obvious choice is scimitars as rapiers won't get the above light weapon bonuses. But they will thus only gain bonuses with shortbows (as longbows are on the rapier side of the elf weapon bonuses). Most, if not all, of the good bows are longbows. BUT if this was fixed by making rapiers count as light weapons too then they would be the no-brainer choice and scimitars would be the stupid choice as rangers would always want the longbow/rapier line and not the scimitar/shortbow one.

    3. With the demise of strength for tempest rangers, half orc ones become a stupid choice. At the moment I have half orc tempests. High strength is great for killing close up and at range. With this new system, a dex-based elf ranger will do far more close combat damage than a strength based half orc. The elf also gains the racial bonuses to scimitar damage too, but the half orc only gets bonuses for two handed weapons. Scimitars would seem a very orcy choice but they get no bonuses for these.
    Nonsense.

    Where the hell are you getting that DEX-based will do more damage than STR-based? I want numbers, I'm sorry I'm calling this out for BS. With stuff like the Primal Scream give +5 STR you simply cannot get your DEX as high as you can get your STR.

    All this does is close the gap a little for "flavor" builds. STR-based human is still looking like the strongest option like it's been since 2009.
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 07-01-2013 at 08:32 AM.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Nonsense.

    Where the hell are you getting that DEX-based will do more damage than STR-based? I want numbers, I'm sorry I'm calling this out for BS. With stuff like the Primal Scream give +5 STR you simply cannot get your DEX as high as you can get your STR.

    All this does is close the gap a little for "flavor" builds. STR-based human is still looking like the strongest option like it's been since 2009.
    You could be right - I tend to use a lot of elves, but I do at the moment try to get decent strength (and as I said I have some HOrcs too).

    Ignoring bonuses all rangers can get, elves can easily start with 20 dex if they dump strength and have several +1 dex enhancements. They also get +4 to hit and damage with scimitars or rapiers in the elf tree and +6% to hit from the same racial tree. With dex improving your ranged to hit, armour class (a minor point I know) and reflex save as well as close combat to hit and damage it seems that it can be your main stat instead of strength.

    Compared with a strength based half orc with no racial weapon damage bonuses which maximises strength (and hence loses out in AC, ranged to hit and reflex save) I'm not sure that the dex elf doesn't come out ahead.

    Primal scream doesn't really factor into much for me as I don't see how it will help most of my toons (or in fact most toons) as most toons aren't at epic level. And is +5 STR better than the +4 racial elf bonuses to damage?

    I know it could be said that I moved the goalposts by talking about elves rather than just dex, but Elves seem the best able to take advantage of the new enhancements like Graceful Death.
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  11. #111
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    Don't elves have a +3% doublestrike enhancement as well (Skill or something like that) ?

  12. #112
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donblas View Post
    You could be right - I tend to use a lot of elves, but I do at the moment try to get decent strength (and as I said I have some HOrcs too).

    Ignoring bonuses all rangers can get, elves can easily start with 20 dex if they dump strength and have several +1 dex enhancements. They also get +4 to hit and damage with scimitars or rapiers in the elf tree and +6% to hit from the same racial tree. With dex improving your ranged to hit, armour class (a minor point I know) and reflex save as well as close combat to hit and damage it seems that it can be your main stat instead of strength.

    Compared with a strength based half orc with no racial weapon damage bonuses which maximises strength (and hence loses out in AC, ranged to hit and reflex save) I'm not sure that the dex elf doesn't come out ahead.

    Primal scream doesn't really factor into much for me as I don't see how it will help most of my toons (or in fact most toons) as most toons aren't at epic level. And is +5 STR better than the +4 racial elf bonuses to damage?

    I know it could be said that I moved the goalposts by talking about elves rather than just dex, but Elves seem the best able to take advantage of the new enhancements like Graceful Death.
    Okay, I need to concede the elves are a lot better than I thought, I need to look are their ENH again.

    I'm still thinking overall human is stronger because of healing amp and HV damage boost (+1 skill point and a feat's nothing to scoff at either). That said self-displacement is a really strong ability.

    Horc has really never been a good race for rangers anyway.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Okay, I need to concede the elves are a lot better than I thought, I need to look are their ENH again.

    I'm still thinking overall human is stronger because of healing amp and HV damage boost (+1 skill point and a feat's nothing to scoff at either). That said self-displacement is a really strong ability.

    Horc has really never been a good race for rangers anyway.
    I just rolled a quick test on Lamannia (I suspect it's not perfect). Elf Ranger Lvl20 with absolutely no equipment.

    32 dex, 16 Con rest dumped. The dex gives good bonuses to AC and reflex save.

    So 32 dex gives +11 to hit and damage, the elf tree adds +4 to each when using scimitars to add to the tempest tree's +4 to each when TWF, for +19 to hit and damage. Then obviously all lvl20 rangers get +10 damage against favoured enemy.

    The elf tree also gives +3% doublestrike to add to the tempest 5%. The elf tree adds 6% to hit, plus 3% dodge and 3% dodge bypass.

    One downside is no power attack etc due to low strength.

    I certainly agree about HOrc, but I felt like making a very high strength ranger. I really think they should have scimitars and falchions as racial weapons though
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  14. #114
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    Can't you dump 3 DEX for 3 STR (and use +2 tome later). You lose 6-7 to hit for 8-9 damage (not really sure if it's a good trade-off xD)

  15. #115
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donblas View Post
    I just rolled a quick test on Lamannia (I suspect it's not perfect). Elf Ranger Lvl20 with absolutely no equipment.

    32 dex, 16 Con rest dumped. The dex gives good bonuses to AC and reflex save.

    So 32 dex gives +11 to hit and damage, the elf tree adds +4 to each when using scimitars to add to the tempest tree's +4 to each when TWF, for +19 to hit and damage. Then obviously all lvl20 rangers get +10 damage against favoured enemy.

    The elf tree also gives +3% doublestrike to add to the tempest 5%. The elf tree adds 6% to hit, plus 3% dodge and 3% dodge bypass.

    One downside is no power attack etc due to low strength.

    I certainly agree about HOrc, but I felt like making a very high strength ranger. I really think they should have scimitars and falchions as racial weapons though
    My human is rocking a 50 STR. 32 DEX? Meh . . . I have a 30 DEX now on live with the 50 STR.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    My human is rocking a 50 STR. 32 DEX? Meh . . . I have a 30 DEX now on live with the 50 STR.
    Wow how do you manage that with no tomes or equipment or epic destinies or TRs etc- where did you get the points???
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by donblas View Post
    Wow how do you manage that with no tomes or equipment or epic destinies or TRs etc- where did you get the points???
    Preeeetty sure he didn't saw the "absolutely no equipment" part.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hajutze View Post
    Preeeetty sure he didn't saw the "absolutely no equipment" part.
    I hope that's the case or I've been playing this game wrong for years!
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  19. #119
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donblas View Post
    I hope that's the case or I've been playing this game wrong for years!
    DOH!

    Yeah, I missed that . . .

    So what's your DEX with equipment so we can compare apples to apples?

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    DOH!

    Yeah, I missed that . . .

    So what's your DEX with equipment so we can compare apples to apples?
    As I said that was just a fresh off the boat lvl20 elf ranger I rolled up this morning on Lamannia. Still wearing her grubby Korthos shipwreck underclothes. I just rolled it up to see what dex was achievable and whether dex elf rangers are any good under the new enhancement system and does that mean that strength can be dumped now dex can replace strength in close combat to hit and damage (for rangers) while giving high ranged to hit, Ac and reflex saves. Dumping strength allows one to max out Con also.

    I can't really give an apples/apples comparison cos she's a peach LOL
    He left the name, at which the world grew pale.

    Math never helps solve problems, it only further complicates them.

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