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  1. #21
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
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    It's still waaay too early to start freaking out.

    Right?

    (plzplzplz don't make my Clerics nothing more than healbots. And do NOT mess with Radiant Servant unless you're going to make it BETTER. Seriously.)
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    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  2. #22
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    Stalwart Pack enhancement requires Cleric level 5.
    Blur enhancement requires Cleric level 4.

    Shouldn't those requirements be swapped, considering that Stalwart Pack is Tier 4 and Blue is Tier 5?

  3. #23
    Community Member darthhento's Avatar
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    "Healing" needs tweaking. A lot of it. "Protection" needs to be killed, buried and forgotten, then a melee line needs to be put in it's place. Where is the offensive spellcaster pre?!?
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  4. #24
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darthhento View Post
    "Healing" needs tweaking. A lot of it. "Protection" needs to be killed, buried and forgotten, then a melee line needs to be put in it's place. Where is the offensive spellcaster pre?!?
    I've got a bad feeling about this...

    (Installing latest Lammania now. Must... not... panic...)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  5. #25
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clkpacker View Post
    Here's the human and cleric trees.

    The Healing domain and Protection domain seem to be the only ones granted to clerics atm, depending on whether you choose to be a cleric of the Sovereign Host or Silver Flame.

    EDIT: Bah, photobucket resized everything. Still, the text is readable if not very pretty.
    Do you have bigger version maybe? Its too tiny to read .

  6. #26
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    Hi,

    I had a look at the ranger enhancement lines, and some of the things that worried me there seem to be an issue here too.

    The costs of getting to a point where you have good abilities is too high. The point of balance between being good at a few things and great at one thing has been shifted, perhaps too far in the direction of 'specialise or go home'.

    The cost of full RS spec is very high. There seems to be little provision for playing a cleric as anything other than a healbot.

    Is there any plan to support offensive casting for this class? Is it an oversight that the DC and spell pen discrepancy between other casting classes and clerics is becoming so great, or is it an intentional design decision?

    It is too early to draw any firm conclusions about how this will all pan out, but right now it looks like a loss of diversity will be the consequence. It also seems like a big shift in the direction of a very active, 4E style game, which is something that a chunk of the playerbase will not appreciate.

    Thanks.
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  7. #27
    Community Member Eilyen's Avatar
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    Umm, did I somehow wander into an old version of WoW? I feel like I'm looking at the Discipline and Holy trees from Priest, but with even less offensive casting...

    Healing tree is boring if rather as expected.

    Protection is more interesting, but lacking in real usefulness.

    Somehow I doubt the as yet to be revealed third tree is filled with totally awesome melee dps AND caster pew pew. In 3.5E these are both things clerics could be built to do well, but looks like DDO says clerics should be support only from here on.

  8. #28
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    So I just finish taking a good look at the enhancements for a lvl 7 human cleric , i wish a had a character to copy over, but none meet class and my main is on a TR path! Overall, i really like the new look and this will really allow for a lot of new builds, trap finding in the protection tree is just one easy example! With a 4th tree line for warchanter, we are just getting more options on where/how to spend our AP which is good.

    Personally, I never use divine healing and sometimes did take divine vitality, but it would be nice to try and give players option to have both at the same time. Find a way to put both DH and DV into tree and link it to martyrdom?

    One thing i don’t like is the “new capstone requirement”. Needing to pay 2AP to get the 4 other core abilities and 2 for the capstone itself results in a total of 10AP which i think could get costly quick. Not to mention, we may not be interested in all 4 of the core abilities needed to get the capstone. Maybe just drop core ability cost to 1 AP or simply level 20 + 40AP for the capstone?

    Speaking of capstone, are you trying to tease us buy offering +2 wisdom for both the protection and healing capstones? Like honestly, what’s a +2 wisdom really good for in end game other than DC (DC = offense), yet we have nothing at all anywhere in sight for spell pen or any other type of real casting offense. This worries me a little because i expect the warchanter tree to be more combat oriented then caster. Warchanter may give something for blade barrier and comet fall, maybe even implosion if really lucky...but i really doubt destruction or slay living will ever get some love . That’s sad because necro cleric use to be really cool in PnP! I have 3 lives to go on my main and was planning to end last life as cleric, but i may look elsewhere if clerics can’t get some better offensive sources. I started my TR process to help my offensive casting and hope future enhancement or ED updates would help improve clerics with new offensive sources like better DC or spell pen, at least in some schools. To be clear, i am not saying clerics don’t have good offensive spells, just not enough source to improve those spells for current end game content (i think).

    Final cleric comment: A level 20 cleric has the ability to swap 5 level 9 spells.....wait for it for.... from a list of 5 spells! Not really a ability when we are talking about level 9 spells. I know it’s off topic, but i have to mention it every time I post on clerics.

    You still get 99% for presentation, i do like all 3 trees (human, protection, healing) and i understand why there is no offense outside of positive/light, but unless you are coming out with epic undead pack, i sincerely hope warchanter will have some offensive casting enhancements and not only combat enhancements.

    Oh, and thanks for letting us in on this one and getting such a complete and early sneak peek!

  9. #29
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    I'm still digesting the Protection and Healing Domain Cleric Lines.

    I am going to say this one thing - Where is the Weapon Proficiency Faith lines. I'm not sure I want to give up my level 20 Cleric that likes to melee with scimatars - please don't make me return to simple weapons. Just think of all those Lord Of Blades who won't be proficient with their Great Swords (Proxy Divine ESoS nerf?).

  10. #30
    Community Member RavenStormclaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    I'm still digesting the Protection and Healing Domain Cleric Lines.

    I am going to say this one thing - Where is the Weapon Proficiency Faith lines. I'm not sure I want to give up my level 20 Cleric that likes to melee with scimatars - please don't make me return to simple weapons. Just think of all those Lord Of Blades who won't be proficient with their Great Swords (Proxy Divine ESoS nerf?).
    they exist but have been moved to feats. Somewhere... and I don't remember where.. a dev stated the respective faiths have been moved to an auto granted feat you select at level 1... I assume the weapon proficiencies will be there. It was stated they did that to save it from costing AP and it also made more sense.

  11. #31
    The Hatchery Cernunan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RavenStormclaw View Post
    they exist but have been moved to feats. Somewhere... and I don't remember where.. a dev stated the respective faiths have been moved to an auto granted feat you select at level 1... I assume the weapon proficiencies will be there. It was stated they did that to save it from costing AP and it also made more sense.
    That is exactly the case, you choose your faith as a feat at 1st level now. It is free.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    While it's not difficult to figure out, it's a mindless, stupid and eye-bleeding grind. It's not too hard to figure out that is not what this game needs right now. 2-3 million karma ok, there's some pain for your gain. But really, the EPL's are not worth the pain of 6 million XP in off destinies/sphere's.
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  12. #32
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    This is to complete my previous post :

    - You have only 2/3 Wis enhancement ( or Cha ) while before you could have 5 or more. ( 3 Wis and 2 Cha + Racial )

    - Where did Divine Intervention go ?
    - Where did the Energy of the Zealot line go ?
    THIS... a lot!!! Why are we losing 3 stat points?

    Also, why are you nerfing radiant servant and related abilities? I started playing my cleric again because radiant servant as it is now, made it fun again.

    I don't see how or why you feel the need to nerf clerics. If I cannot get everything I have now in the new system, you are doing it wrong.
    /sigh

  13. #33
    The Hatchery dejafu's Avatar
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    Okay, I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, but there's very clearly a couple of domain trees that aren't finished yet.

    Early leaks of the domains a couple of months ago included an Exorcism domain, a War domain, and some racial-deity specific domains. The Exorcism domain was specifically referred to as an offensive casting domain, so you can probably expect to see spell pen, spell power, etc. type enhancements there.
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    Turning Ghostbane into a meme is, in my book, the best thing to happen to DDO in awhile.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Do you have bigger version maybe? Its too tiny to read .
    I'm slowly transcribing the trees to the forums here. So far I've done humans and clerics, plus warforged and fighter have been added to the end of the thread.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by dejafu View Post
    Okay, I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, but there's very clearly a couple of domain trees that aren't finished yet.

    Early leaks of the domains a couple of months ago included an Exorcism domain, a War domain, and some racial-deity specific domains. The Exorcism domain was specifically referred to as an offensive casting domain, so you can probably expect to see spell pen, spell power, etc. type enhancements there.
    Players might have been a lot happier if the caster tree was out with the first preview.

    As it is, I think it looks like over specialization in healing is increasing gap between clerics and other classes on that particular feature, the offensive caster cleric would have been better to put out fast and I think would have produced more positive feedback, and the protection tree doesn't really look like it's that melee focused if it's meant to be the melee cleric tree.

    What I was hoping to see was the war priest tree, exorcist tree, and radiant servant tree.

    War priest as defensive melee with some offensive bonus like smites and divine might, but mostly tankish cleric style.
    Radiant servant with healing, light damage, and bonuses against undead.
    Exorcist with bonuses to fire, dispelling, protection, possibly some types of DC's, debuffs and status effects

    The bonus feats taken at first level should provide bonuses to some of the enhancements in each of the trees based on the what was taken.

    I was also surprised at the AP costs for each enhancement. Previously it was going to be 1/1/1/1 with some costing 2 and the PrE benefits free. The cost increase almost looks like there were not enough enhancements to fill the tree so the costs were changed so players would be able to use up the AP.

    I think we need to see more of all the classes and enhancements, but I'm not overly impressed with the cleric trees so far.

    Cure focus seems like an enormous buff to single target cure spells and having gone overboard.
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  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aashrym View Post
    Players might have been a lot happier if the caster tree was out with the first preview.
    The trees we see on lama are all the trees we're getting. During the dev chat they said they are focused on finishing the trees they have before they think about adding more. When you factor in that there's yet another expansion coming this summer, adding more trees simply isn't going to happen. Maybe ever.

    The devs couldn't be more clear: Clerics are to become healbots. This also explains the thinking behind nerfing self-healing melees; what are all those healbots going to do if melee can heal themselves?

  17. #37
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Just finished digesting these trees...

    So basically RS was made much more expensive and difficult to get...well that finally killed more then a few interesting builds still in our guild rooster which were no where near as good as the better builds out there.

    No battle cleric line...for either caster or melee. Wow, that is incredibly dense. Sorry, but alpha still reveals design intent and this is the most basic of basic for how this pass should have gone... Give players more options. Instead the cleric trees are the prime example of what this pass really does...takes away viable options and makes a mess of a massive number of existing builds.

    Two healbot trees...not even three trees and both are healbot nonsense.

    An incredible density of flavor junk abilities in the trees. I mean SLA of mediocre spells...that is just wow bad.

    Really these are do not pass go trees from basic design to implementation. Kill these monstrosities with fire and actually do three trees that do not make existing clerics delete their toons and move onto another MMO.

    These are the worst of all the class trees from every angle that I have seen so far.
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  18. #38
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    I doubt we are getting anymore domains anytime soon - that is just not the way the devs work. The reality is going to be if you do not want to be a healbot or be a raid buff character you will have to true reincarnate into a favored soul. If you want to melee or cast offensive spells you will be best served true reincarnating. Next week when they release the trees for favored soul that will be many people's choice including likely mine.

    I actually think overall the healing domain is pretty powerful. It has a ton of cheap and efficient resource healing possibilities throughout it as well as some nice healing power options. The turning options are very nice.

    I am very disappointed with the protection domain. It has some very nice buffs for a raid or boss tank, but these are limited by the duration of the heal skill so the cleric will have to constantly recast these buffs less then a minute in length. I play 2 and sometimes 3 bards and I would not be looking forward to the playstyle of casting buffs on players every minute or so in a party so the reality is this will just be cast on the raid or end boss tank - so what is this player supposed to do in the 90% of the time that the players are not fighting the end fight? It misses out on alot of the cheap healing of the healing domain and I am guessing the nice things that favored soul get?

    The spells are all cleric spells that I rarely cast except for blur which bards/wizards/sorcerers already get. Is there any chance that the devs could throw this a bone and maybe make it 30% miss chance or something so it was something cool? Come on.

    I dislike the combination of guards with ac buffs being a pre-requiste which are a total contradiction. There should be a guard section and another section which is an ac section. I also think the guards should be more powerful although arcane augmentation is nice - the best protection for clerics when they might get attacked by casters is to not take spell damage for the most part so not sure how good this is for a cleric without an aura?

    The devs should really tear the protection domain apart and redo it. It will be the least popular tree I can almost guarantee.
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  19. #39

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    Ideally they'd toss out all the SLAs plus that interconnected mess of single-target buffs, (Wary? Seriously?) and merge protector with healing since they both have the same focus. Then add a dc/offensive caster tree and a melee tree.

  20. #40
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Ideally they'd toss out all the SLAs plus that interconnected mess of single-target buffs, (Wary? Seriously?) and merge protector with healing since they both have the same focus. Then add a dc/offensive caster tree and a melee tree.
    I do not think the devs think much of clerics other then as healbots. I think the intent is offensive divines whether melee or caster have to go favored souls. Which I guess I can live with although that is not D&D. The protection domain is a mess though plain and simple.
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