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  1. #101
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Overall, I don't like the structure of domain=prestige.

    More specifically

    Healing Domain:
    -Pacifism seems unfun. Additionally this domain is granting more light spell power, but pacifism takes it back and kills the light crit chance. Would like it better if it read You gain 25 Positive Energy AND LIGHT Spell Power and 3% Positive Energy AND LIGHT Spell Critical Chance...
    -Positive Energy Shield is a waste. At Cleric lvl 18, how about I just cast heal rather than prep my target w/some temp hit points and a little heal amp?
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  2. #102
    Community Member Kalari's Avatar
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    I really thought when a guild mate of mine euthusiatically told me that domains were coming that we really would see Domains.

    I know Ebberon is not as deity reliant as other D&D realms but we have such a broad scope to work with.

    Healing and Protection are not domains, the amount of work you would need to put in to make builds comparable to where they are now on live is costly and not worth the effort in Protection. The buff durations are miniscule their benefits not really worth the amount of AP to invest.

    I thought that we would get something along the lines of War, Boon, Bane, Faith

    War- would give a path towards melee types it would increase damage towards favored weapons, give smiting bonuses against abhorrent creatures or vs your alignment enemies. You could add an sla that grants divine power/might like buff for cheap and really help the battle cleric builds out. It could have a defense option for clerics who want to tank up shield bonuses that could be a lighter version of stalwart like a knock down protection ability, I know a few divines who would love something like that.

    Boon- For caster clerics the ability to debuff your enemy is a great tactic, a path that allows you to focus on pin pointing your enemies weakness and lowering its defense, this path would allow you sla's like rays of exhaustion, waves of fatigue, energy drain, feeble mind, it could add an extra use towards the dragonmarked feat that allows you to slow and energy drain mobs as well or at least regenerate the four charges of that dragonmark of shadows ability.

    Bane- For casters who wish to use damage spells, this path would include enhancements that boost light/negative damage (which also would help in healing our undead allies for negative spikes) I would love to see a new sla "faith strike" which does an amount of alignment based damage simuliar to our chaos hammers, holy smites, unholy smites (blights etc)

    Faith- This path of the tree would open up paths based on your faith, if you are a follower of the Lord of the Blades, would it not make sense to have a natural boosts to weapons damage? If you are a follower of the Undying court? Should you not have an affinity over the undead? If you are a follower of the Vulkoor should you not have a way of immunity towards poison and or ability to coat your weapons with virulent strains granted by your scorpion god? Silver flame should be able to exorcise demons doing great damage to their foes, Sovereign hosts channel their divine energies in ways to smite foes? The faith path would give boosts to favored weapons as the did in the old enhancements but provide something special in the way of those who truly follow the path.

    Fervent servant of faith- You are an acolyte of your faith path and you are rewarded with your boon of faith. This would obviously vary based on the divines choice of faith but it should especially at epic levels give a special ability based on the characters faith path.

    Then you can add healing and protection and many of us would not balk because there would have been something for everyone.

    Those ideas was the kind of stuff I wanted to see when they talked about re doing enhancements and putting out domains for divine classes. It really would give more versatility to players, it would give options and choice to those who want to follow certain faiths, and its what I thought would be done when I first heard talks of Domains.
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  3. #103
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    This is my least favorite of the enhancements. Just makes me think TR or (LR+5)x4.
    I would prefer removing protection and make the second tree that you have available be the name of your diety (perhaps the sovereign host gets a bunch of protection and move Unyielding Sovereignty into that tree). I suppose the different races of clerics will be very different because everyone will stock up on their racial tree and their racial prestige instead.

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I do not have a big problem with a defensive focuse divine caster class per say. I just think protection is really bad. The cheap spells are all so bad with blur being the best one, but since so many other classes get it pretty trivial. The less then 1 minute one person buff depending on heal skill - how terrible is that. The 25% stacking elemental absorbtion is probably the best thing in the tree, but that is the top tier ability just sigh.
    I agree. The abilities in the protection tree look weak. Reading posts about no offensive benefits when we can set up for more spell power than we have now is just getting a bit old when spell power does exist in the trees and more WIS enhancements are there.

    The capstone WIS wasn't stacking, however, and appears to be bugged.
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  5. #105

    Default Divine Healing (hopefully) is no longer terrible?

    Going over the enhancements… I noticed that Divine Healing is worded completely different.

    Now it seems like you can use it on yourself instead of other players only. If that’s true, I ask what all can be used to bump up this ability? Spell power? Metamagics?

    Anyone able to test this on lam?

  6. #106
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakofDoom View Post
    We are previewing Cleric Enhancements this week.

    Please share your thoughts on the Cleric Enhancement Trees!

    While the Cleric Survey is now closed, please continue to give us your feedback here!
    Change all the short term low value clickie buffs with SP costs into permanent aura's with no sp cost.

    I am not a Mozart keyboard pianist and either are most players... stop the keymashing madness before it starts.

    Short term buffs need to be powerfull
    such as..
    Sacred touch. 2-6AP for +1ac/+1prr per tier for 12 seconds...
    It needs to be a +25/50/75 or it is just another worthless ap filler to get to something usefull.

    Shield.. a +5 sacred PRR bonus to an ally for 6 seconds+1sec/heal skill and still costs 12sp to cast.
    Should be a permanent aura or cast with a long duration 5min+1min/caster level...
    or +10PRR/caster level with short duration.. otherwise it is worthless..

    players do not want to spend half of their AP filling worthless scrap to get to the usefull stuff.
    There needs to be twice as many AP items to choose from on each tree.

    Healing/Protection should be combined into 1 tree.
    Protection is not a tree on its own and should never have been passed off as a separate tree.

    Battle caster(offensive caster) and Warpriest(melee).. (or whatever you want to call them) are your two missing tree's and should have as much in them as the healing/protection combined.
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  7. #107
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    I consider my main on Live to be a Cleric. I've only TR'd him once (I don't really see the big advantage to having multiple past lives, especially with Epic Destinies) and he is for the most part healing specced, but like most people who play clerics I like running around with Blade Barriers, comet falls etc. When healing is less needed. I've healed over 150 raids, I've done my time as a healbot, now I want something more.

    So I tried to copy him over to lamannia, but it failed. So I had to recreate him as best I could. A good, stout, dwarf cleric. And I was disappointed.

    The current preview on Lamannia reduces my cleric's overall effectiveness significantly. One of the things I like about Clerics is their ability to have almost anything I need to heal a party or raid at my disposal. The system being previewed takes that away. For example (as others have mentioned) on live I can have both divine healing and divine vitality, yet under this proposed system I have to choose between them? Not a good idea.

    Also, as has been mentioned, the AP cost is too high. I fully expect this to be adjusted as to even make my character similar to the capabilities he has currently, I had to take nearly everything in both the Healing Domain and Protector tree, leaving, no points for taking anything out of the racial tree.

    The Healing Domain tree is OK in general. I know I've read some comments here that it has many worthless enhancements, I don't find them worthless, but underwhelming. The protector tree is worthless in my opinion, as the enhancements and abilities this tree offers, just don't fit the way the game is currently played.

    I know when I play my cleric, that my primary job is to heal, but that doesn't mean I can't contribute to the dps of the group using spells or even melee weapons. So here i my suggestion:

    Combine the Protector and Healing Domain Tree. Add a War Priest Tree, that allows us to increase our general spell power as well as add some melee abilities (smite like). This would make many a cleric happy to be a healer with a splash of war priest or a war priest who can actually heal when needed.

    My last rant is about Skill points. Clerics are very limited by this and by making Spellcraft INT based (It should be INT/WIS/CHA based on class) means that Clerics will be struggling to keep heal, spellcraft going, not to mention that skills like concentration and jump are important to the class, Diplomacy as flavor and it would put UMD out of most clerics thoughts. Combined with the weak trees, the skill point stuff, makes Clerics very gimp.
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  8. #108
    Community Member Kalari's Avatar
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    I really hope the issue with the missing faith paths are addressed

    what is the point of releasing healing domains (that name ugh hate typing it) when our faith choices are not represented. No offense to sovereign host types but my elven divines worship the Undying court I took enhancements in that line on my cleric, favored soul, and paladin and would have on my ranger and bard if it had been an option.

    I don't know if the Lord of the Blades stuff is missing yet didn't get a chance to copy over my WF FVS but this omission is going to seriously affect my builds and play style if they are not added before this goes live.
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  9. #109
    Community Member Terebinthia's Avatar
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    My feedback can be found in its own thread, since I wanted to break it down and work through it using a real example.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=415125

    From a caster cleric perspective, I appear to be down 1 Wisdom compared to live and Spell Penetration has gone the way of the dodo. Not good. I agree with all the folk who are saying combine the Healing and Protection domains currently here, and add a melee and an offensive caster option. A lot of the enhancements are distinctly underwhelming and force choices which are unappealing.
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  10. #110
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    I'm persistant and I was bored at work... The result is this : ( draft )



    This is only a draft of the live Cleric Enhancements in a Tree Form... I'd call it Radiant Servant Tree as almost everything is centered around Radiant Servant.

    The only two changes compared to live are the following :
    Prayer of Smiting requires Smiting
    Prayer of Life requires Life Magic
    Radiant Servant II requires Charisma 2 instead of One of Charisma 2, Deitiy Specific Stuff.

    All the other Cleric Speciific Enhancements are unchanged.

    Divine X is one of Divine Healing, Divine Cleansing, Divine Vitality, Divine Might, Divine Light

    I left out of the tree : the Deity Specific Stuff and the Skill Stuff.

    It needs some refinement as I haven't taken into account the level requirements and the points spent to place the boxes.

    Now if some Dev could tell me why it wasn't possible to do it that way ? Changes are minimal, The UI is a tree, Everybody is happy.

    ( and The Cleric tree is probably one of the most difficult one, as most of the other classes have several PREs, so they can have several separate trees )
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  11. #111
    Community Member msc313's Avatar
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    Exclamation Cleric is a 3 Dimensional Class

    I appreciate the idea of the new enhancement tree system. The Kensei and Tempest trees are stunning, and will provide some additional balance to twf melees who mainly play EE. With that said, I feel like the Cleric trees weaken the class, not balance it, in the context of current end game play.

    I have played a Cleric/Monk as my main toon since 2009. I did so because of the ability to fit many roles: melee/CC/casting/healing. This system diminishes the ability to invest in melee and casting, greatly reducing the flexibility of the class. If the intent is to create a "healer" class, then these propositions will be highly successful. However, in classic DnD the Cleric was a three dimensional threat.

    My recommendation is to provide alternative tree that reflect the classic cleric roles not currently represented: One for melee and one for casting.

    Also, +1 to domains =/= prestige

    Otherwise many divine players will do what I will likely do, regrettably TR our Clerics into FvS.

  12. #112
    Community Member Urjak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosbeak07 View Post
    I consider my main on Live to be a Cleric. I've only TR'd him once (I don't really see the big advantage to having multiple past lives, especially with Epic Destinies) and he is for the most part healing specced, but like most people who play clerics I like running around with Blade Barriers, comet falls etc. When healing is less needed. I've healed over 150 raids, I've done my time as a healbot, now I want something more.

    So I tried to copy him over to lamannia, but it failed. So I had to recreate him as best I could. A good, stout, dwarf cleric. And I was disappointed.

    The current preview on Lamannia reduces my cleric's overall effectiveness significantly. One of the things I like about Clerics is their ability to have almost anything I need to heal a party or raid at my disposal. The system being previewed takes that away. For example (as others have mentioned) on live I can have both divine healing and divine vitality, yet under this proposed system I have to choose between them? Not a good idea.

    Also, as has been mentioned, the AP cost is too high. I fully expect this to be adjusted as to even make my character similar to the capabilities he has currently, I had to take nearly everything in both the Healing Domain and Protector tree, leaving, no points for taking anything out of the racial tree.

    The Healing Domain tree is OK in general. I know I've read some comments here that it has many worthless enhancements, I don't find them worthless, but underwhelming. The protector tree is worthless in my opinion, as the enhancements and abilities this tree offers, just don't fit the way the game is currently played.

    I know when I play my cleric, that my primary job is to heal, but that doesn't mean I can't contribute to the dps of the group using spells or even melee weapons. So here i my suggestion:

    Combine the Protector and Healing Domain Tree. Add a War Priest Tree, that allows us to increase our general spell power as well as add some melee abilities (smite like). This would make many a cleric happy to be a healer with a splash of war priest or a war priest who can actually heal when needed.

    My last rant is about Skill points. Clerics are very limited by this and by making Spellcraft INT based (It should be INT/WIS/CHA based on class) means that Clerics will be struggling to keep heal, spellcraft going, not to mention that skills like concentration and jump are important to the class, Diplomacy as flavor and it would put UMD out of most clerics thoughts. Combined with the weak trees, the skill point stuff, makes Clerics very gimp.
    Had to quote you, because I too created a cleric on lammania from scratch ... though I was more surprised by the effectiveness of the build than disappointed ...

    Well I didn't play much during the last 6 months (for several reasons, one of them having to do with me spending a good deal of time in the hospital -.-) ... and maybe they nerfed the game into oblivion with u18^^ ... but I soloed epics (well only on normal, BUT: ) , without breaking into a sweat^^ .... only once my hp went below 75% ... and I even did all the "extreme challenge" optionals^^ ... on comparison: I soloed these on my sorc and wiz too ... but I had to use several pots, had to skip all optionals in these quests and it was definitely challenging

    To the build I tried:
    Halforc Cleric 18/Fighter 2/Unyielding Sentinel 5 ... it was VERY fun to play and ... as I said super easy^^ ... if my computer hadn't decided to crash I would have tried hard and elite too^^ ... well lets see when I have enough time again for a longer gaming session

    Overall I agree with the general opinion though:
    the healing tree is not bad, BUT:
    the capstone is useless ... I mean yeah +2 wisdom is nice, but every so and so cast is maximized ... do you really expect me to count my heals now? srsly? no way lol

    pacifism ... well for raid healing, it has definitely its uses, apart from that it is only a prerequisite to get improved empower heal

    oh and shield other ... that one made me really lol so hard I was nearly crying ... I mean your target gets healing amp ... AWESOME! ... that surely is for making it easier to keep the tank up in some raids, right? ... as long as a few temp hp last ... well as long as those temp hp last, the tank won't need healing anyhow ... so whats the point? hu?

    preactive heal was another one that made me cringe ... I already see it coming that raid leaders will expect clerics to have this outside of raids completely useless enhancement ... and for an only very situationally useful enhancement it is pretty costly :/

    but i don't want to be all negative ... the no CL limit on cure spells is definitely very cool ... and +100% scroll and wand damage at tier 1 is cool too

    conclusion:
    it looks very wow'ish or well "mainstream" to me ... my initial excited didn't last very long ... it ended when I discovered that the top tier of a class tree (where the awesome stuff is hidden) requires to pick more or less the whole tree anyways ... so: want the top row abilities? yes? ok, then shut off your brain, no need to decide between which enhancements to take and which not ... you need all of them anyways to unlock the top row ... and with pos. spellpower tied to the number of action points put into the healing domain tree ... really leaves little room for personalization :/

    oh and the protection tree is (almost) completely useless ... only thing that looked interesting to me was the perma blur ... but definitely not worth wasting 40 points just to unlock it! O_o

    => suggestion: lower the requirement for top row to 30 points ... thats still pretty hefty ... remove the protection domain ... give us sth like war domain (melee) and death domain (offensive casting) or elemental domains for offensive casting ... fire domain maybe? ... or magic domain ... sooooo many possibilities ... but pls not protection domain ... thats sth for pallys ;p
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  13. #113
    Community Member DrNuegebauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosbeak07 View Post
    I consider my main on Live to be a Cleric. I've only TR'd him once (I don't really see the big advantage to having multiple past lives, especially with Epic Destinies) and he is for the most part healing specced, but like most people who play clerics I like running around with Blade Barriers, comet falls etc. When healing is less needed. I've healed over 150 raids, I've done my time as a healbot, now I want something more.

    So I tried to copy him over to lamannia, but it failed. So I had to recreate him as best I could. A good, stout, dwarf cleric. And I was disappointed.

    The current preview on Lamannia reduces my cleric's overall effectiveness significantly. One of the things I like about Clerics is their ability to have almost anything I need to heal a party or raid at my disposal. The system being previewed takes that away. For example (as others have mentioned) on live I can have both divine healing and divine vitality, yet under this proposed system I have to choose between them? Not a good idea.

    Also, as has been mentioned, the AP cost is too high. I fully expect this to be adjusted as to even make my character similar to the capabilities he has currently, I had to take nearly everything in both the Healing Domain and Protector tree, leaving, no points for taking anything out of the racial tree.

    The Healing Domain tree is OK in general. I know I've read some comments here that it has many worthless enhancements, I don't find them worthless, but underwhelming. The protector tree is worthless in my opinion, as the enhancements and abilities this tree offers, just don't fit the way the game is currently played.

    I know when I play my cleric, that my primary job is to heal, but that doesn't mean I can't contribute to the dps of the group using spells or even melee weapons. So here i my suggestion:

    Combine the Protector and Healing Domain Tree. Add a War Priest Tree, that allows us to increase our general spell power as well as add some melee abilities (smite like). This would make many a cleric happy to be a healer with a splash of war priest or a war priest who can actually heal when needed.

    My last rant is about Skill points. Clerics are very limited by this and by making Spellcraft INT based (It should be INT/WIS/CHA based on class) means that Clerics will be struggling to keep heal, spellcraft going, not to mention that skills like concentration and jump are important to the class, Diplomacy as flavor and it would put UMD out of most clerics thoughts. Combined with the weak trees, the skill point stuff, makes Clerics very gimp.
    I'm absolutely not trying to be rude in any way shape or form: but might I suggest that (as it currently stands) perhaps you're not taking advantage of all that the cleric class has to offer? [or you are, and you're being generous to the enhancement pass!]

    Aside from raids, there are barely a handful of quests where 'healing' is required from another player. This 'enhancement pass' is rendering the cleric class obsolete in all but a few raids. And even in those raid scenarios, surely the FvS options will be vastly superior?

    Can't see why there'd be any clerics running around as things stand? Surely it's FvS or get out?

  14. #114
    Community Member Terebinthia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNuegebauer View Post
    I'm absolutely not trying to be rude in any way shape or form: but might I suggest that (as it currently stands) perhaps you're not taking advantage of all that the cleric class has to offer? [or you are, and you're being generous to the enhancement pass!]

    Aside from raids, there are barely a handful of quests where 'healing' is required from another player. This 'enhancement pass' is rendering the cleric class obsolete in all but a few raids. And even in those raid scenarios, surely the FvS options will be vastly superior?

    Can't see why there'd be any clerics running around as things stand? Surely it's FvS or get out?
    I can heal very comfortably with my cleric on most content with a +48 potency item and 4 ranks in life magic. That's it. I haven't run a ton of EEs, because I don't need to, and I find PUGGing painful, but I've run pretty much anything else on EH. And EE is more about keeping up with quick spike damage than how much you stroke your little healing appendage to get pretty crits, from what I've seen on my Soul, anyway (she doesn't have Empower Healing )

    All this extra healing stuffs just benefits the people who took all feats possible in Toughness because it's visible. Or a similar epic destiny. Big whoop. They tend not to be the optimal people to run with anyway (of course there's exceptions, before people run in with "but my build does XYZ"). But in general that healing capability's been plenty.
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  15. #115
    Community Member ddobard1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosbeak07
    ...My last rant is about Skill points. Clerics are very limited by this and by making Spellcraft INT based (It should be INT/WIS/CHA based on class) means that Clerics will be struggling to keep heal, spellcraft going, not to mention that skills like concentration and jump are important to the class, Diplomacy as flavor and it would put UMD out of most clerics thoughts. Combined with the weak trees, the skill point stuff, makes Clerics very gimp.
    cleric number of skills is always low in dnd

    in 21 skills for a cleric to get 4-6 some investment in Int must be made

    heal and concentration are class skills, then spellcraft, now for others need to invest in int
    Last edited by ddobard1; 04-17-2013 at 05:31 AM. Reason: edit: spellcraft not class skill

  16. #116
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    hmm, Spellcraft... not Class... Weird, it appeared as class when I did an LR yesterday....
    At least that's that 1 point Spent for 1 skill rank tells me.
    ( I put the same number of ranks as for Heal, usually at the same time : 2 Level 1 rank in Heal 1 Rank in Spellcraft, 1 Level 2 ranks in Concentration... with 2 Ranks in Heal and Spellcraft at Level 0 )
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  17. #117
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aashrym View Post
    The capstone WIS wasn't stacking, however, and appears to be bugged.
    Has there been any word from the devs on that? I tried it last night but didn't bother to check to see if it was added to my total Wisdom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  18. #118
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    *Below is a possible reasoning for why some of the costs are so high, as i was not there, i CANNOT say if this is true, but it is what i think is the reason for the AP costs.

    While i agree that there is a lot of problems with which abilities cost a lot, and that a lot of the abilities need work, there is also the problem that the devs face: how to make sure that people do not get too many abilities, they may be trying to make it so that a person can only get 1 capstone, and to do that they had to make it so that you spent half of your points in that tree, understandable. Then to make that work it and still give people choices in what to choose in a tree they seem had to make abilities have high AP costs, not that the abilities are all really worth that cost. While this does not mean that i agree the abilities should have this high of a cost for what they currently do, that doesnt mean that i dont understand why they are as the are.

  19. #119
    Community Member caquias's Avatar
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    Unhappy I will miss my clerics

    The enhancement made me log... Most healers would agree we don't change much because the good healers are few and far between. The Radiant Servant is half of what it was and at a higher cost in action points. If they keep it like this and make it harder then it already is to be a healer then a lot of players will leave healers behind. I will. It cost A lot of plat to heal scrolls and pots, and like this it will cost too much. People please don't take it wrong, but many player say they know clerics 'cause they had one for a month for completionist. My is a few years old and is all cleric, both of them and its costly at times. Plus someone is always made because they died. I love my healers and wish you would make it so its not harder. I don't want to be the Battle, healing cleric of the gods just want to healer the group and protect my self if need be.
    Radiant Servant at 6th and then at 12th is great. The med levels are hard low sp are weaker spells Mean radiant servant is a welcome help please don't make a class so many people don't like to play harder.

    Oh battle cleric is in the feats first level for my brothers and sister not finding it in enhancement.

    We are oft to blame in this,-- 'Tis too much proved--that with devotion's visage.
    And pious action we do sugar o'er. The devil himself.

  20. #120
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    Sacred Touch is a good idea. Being able to buff and heal an ally at the same time, thus making them less likely to die, is always a good thing.

    Now all we need is...

    Enhancement Name: "I can't heal through walls!"
    Cost: 2 AP, 8 SP per cast
    Description: Target ally gains "Zerg Pact" buff, which activates when the target goes out of healing range. When activated, the buff gives 1d3 positive energy healing to the target every 6 seconds for 2 minutes.
    Last edited by HatsuharuZ; 04-17-2013 at 10:16 AM.

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